Behringer is crap! - is it? do we give labels too much weight?

[mcnach]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1364038920' post='2021133']
I'm a bit of a techie, I've designed and small scale manufactured gear and still repair stuff.

First my actual experience with behringer. I've had two EP series PA amps and they have been utterly reliable and are well made, also a Xenyx mixer, which is utterly reliable also. I used XM8500 mic's, the SM58 look alike which sounds slightly better than the SM58 but with slightly worse feedback control and much more handling noise. The mic had to be rewired and I can't tell you how bad the original soldering was.

I think to understand Behringer you only have to think what they are trying to do. To make stuff cheap you have to look at costs across the board. Labour costs and electronics are cheap so the boards are often OK. Materials costs are similar if you make them in the UK or China so shaving materials costs is worth doing, slightly flimsier mouldings, cases and crucially connectors can cut costs. Quality control is expensive as you need skilled workers to do this. After sales care is also expensive. Anything with cheap connectors is going to be less reliable and rushing me-too products onto the market can lead to problems. Having said this behringer won't actually want anything unreliable to come out of their factories they will just engineer a compromise which keeps costs down.

Components like speakers which have a significant materials cost can't have the costs shaved without affecting the quality, so the speakers are designed to a price. Most of the dissatisfaction seems to be about the products with speakers in.

Ultimately the reason I am wary of Behringer because of their after sales. Some of the retailers I talked to have said that the new distributors in the UK don't provide the support out of the guarantee period that other companies do. Because of the method of construction (shared by most electronic stuff these days) repairs are difficult without new boards being available. No worse than say, Apple but something you factor into what you are prepared to pay.

Personally I'd rather pay 10-20% more and get a better product but this gap isn't filled by many manufacturers. Behringer represent great value and the reliability isn't as bad as their reputation but you will find the odd bit of horsemeat if you dine at this end of the market.
[/quote]


very good post! Thank you!

[VTypeV4]

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1364053585' post='2021433']
Are you saying I have a crap sound???
[/quote]

Not at all, I'd say if I thought so, I'd not beat around the bush, you have met me! Ha!

Your sound works well with material you play, very much 'fit for purpose' within the rock / metal genre. My personal tastes are much more modern jazz / funk so our individual sounds probably aren't cross-compatible anyways..

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='VTypeV4' timestamp='1364060218' post='2021525']
Not at all, I'd say if I thought so, I'd not beat around the bush, you have met me! Ha!

Your sound works well with material you play, very much 'fit for purpose' within the rock / metal genre. My personal tastes are much more modern jazz / funk so our individual sounds probably aren't cross-compatible anyways..
[/quote]

Haha I know Not to mention you'd have had control over the overall sound anyway!

And actually I partly disagree! Pretty much any bass tone can work in metal.. But a metal tone will sound crap in pretty much any other genre

[Len_derby]

Here's an advantage of the stuff no one has mention yet (I think).

I'm just about to set off into Derbyshire for a gig with my Behringer PA amongst the gear in the car.
The weight's going to help in this snow (maybe...)

[merello]

There's a pro on here who talks about his Behringer peddles at big shows and theatre pits.

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='Len_derby' timestamp='1364064316' post='2021573']
Here's an advantage of the stuff no one has mention yet (I think).

I'm just about to set off into Derbyshire for a gig with my Behringer PA amongst the gear in the car.
The weight's going to help in this snow (maybe...)
[/quote]

As long as you don't try to go uphill

[Monckyman]

The thing a lot of people seem to forget about Behringer, is that 20 years ago, they were the ones getting electronic kit made in China.
Ok you may have ethical concerns about labour and lost jobs in your home country, and alleged design rips,but that aside, Behringer pioneered the way for almost every electronics manufacturer today.
Unfortunately, they suffered from appalling quality control, and many superb products stopped working far too early.
Many of those products remain useful though, with simple fixes,and outclass the competition.
The bad press the company received over the initial 10 years of Chinese production ensured the low opinion of anyone who skims reviews of gear without really looking.
Nowadays, in my opinion anyway, Behringer has the edge on the competition,( who have zealously followed Behringers gameplan and moved all production to the PRC) having sorted out their designs and quality control, and bought some very powerful and respected names like Klark Teknik and Midas.
I sincerely believe they cant be matched for price or quality and their new range of mixing desks will wipe the condescending smirks off many a face in the next year.
There are plenty of better sounding bits of kit, with matching prices and snob value but for a very large part of the working band community, the standard is plenty good enough.


(Uri, if you're reading this, I need a new mixing desk)

[discreet]

[quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1364078890' post='2021803']
...their new range of mixing desks will wipe the condescending smirks off many a face in the next year.
[/quote]

You're right, and they're sorting out their QC too. Good post.
[url="http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/X32.aspx"]http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/X32.aspx[/url]

[VTypeV4]

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1364064047' post='2021566']
Haha I know Not to mention you'd have had control over the overall sound anyway!

And actually I partly disagree! Pretty much any bass tone can work in metal.. But a metal tone will sound crap in pretty much any other genre
[/quote]

Ha, Indeed I would! It's all good dude, hope you have a good'un at Mr Chapmans establishment on the 30th..

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='VTypeV4' timestamp='1364082510' post='2021855']
Ha, Indeed I would! It's all good dude, hope you have a good'un at Mr Chapmans establishment on the 30th..
[/quote]

Cheers! I really enjoy playing there, it was the second place I ever played with Generations. First was The Rigger they love a bit of angry-at-your-parents-music!

[bartelby]

[quote name='merello' timestamp='1364066767' post='2021612']
There's a pro on here who talks about his Behringer peddles at big shows and theatre pits.
[/quote]

And this guy seems to like some of the pedals:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCy6QsatGHU[/media]

Edited March 24, 2013 by bartelby

[terryat]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1363874834' post='2018733']
And then there's those JOYO lads. Amp sim clones for about 20% of the original. Tech 21 spitting feathers, I'd imagine.

Bizarrely, they also make a humungous Marshall 100w full-stack with a choice of G12T75's or Vintage 30's. And handwired tweed champ and deluxe clones for about half the cost of a boutique repro.


[/quote]Any link for the 20% off joyo effect?

[VSVP]

my first behringer poweramp blew up on me years ago, my first BDI21 broke on me, other than that ive had alright results with behringer.

i've found EHX stuff to break more consistantly on the road, to the point where i can no longer trust anything EHX on tour.

[Monckyman]

I have a few bits of B kit and the BD121 is among them.
It does have a propensity to blow a resistor between the DC input and the board leaving you stuck with battery only.
Still sounds great for the cash and lives in my spares bag for those just in case moments.
If it only accepted phantom power it would be a killer D.I also.

The DCX ultra drive is still widely favoured over DBX drive racks at twice the price for its routing and limiting capabilities and fetch good money second hand.

[jrturner77]

Hhhmmm, one of me best bits of kit was a bitsa amp set up of a Rocketman Head (a New Zealand own brand built in a garage) along with some home made 15" cabs, with real brown carpet outside and fiberglass insulation inside. Never knew how many watts the amp was, although it had six valves and was responsible for my tinnitus. Ahem.

Had a large following back home and always had people asking after the set up and where could they get one. Also, the odd snob saying how much better it would be if it was an Ampeg. After all that I do have an Ampeg now, but do miss the sense of satisfaction of having a cobbled together thing that sounded great.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='terryat' timestamp='1364203754' post='2022996']
Any link for the 20% off joyo effect?
[/quote]

Er ... what I meant in my poorly written blathering was that Joyo's £30 amp sim pedals are clones of £150-plus Tech 21 amp sim pedals. Hence they cost about 20% of the item they're (sort of) 'copying'.

So, no discount link, sorry.

[patferdig]

[size=3][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Dear all, [/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Please allow me to introduce myself as MUSIC Group's VP, Care. I wanted to take a couple of moments to respond to several of the concerns that you have regarding the overall quality of the Behringer products. I will be the first to admit that in the years past, we did have some quality issues. However, after a $20 million investment in our manufacturing operations, the failures have been reduced dramatically and continue to fall. In fact, a[color=#333333]s most companies are looking at how they can reduce support costs, MUSIC Group increased our warranty from one year in the US and Canada (Two years in the EU) to three years if the product is registered within 90 days of purchase. This was a direct result of the increased quality and reliability benefits seen from the investment.[/color][/font][/size]

[size=3][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][color=#333333]In addition to the investment made in our manufacturing operations, we have also invested a large amount of money and resources into building our internal service depots in Las Vegas, NV and Kidderminster, UK. Our service depots have allowed us to provide direct feedback into our quality, RnD and manufacturing which provides an additional mechanism for continuous improvement.[/color][/font][/size]

[font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"][color="#333333"][size=3]If there is anything that we can help you with, or if there are additional questions, please do not hesitate to PM me directly and I will be more than happy to help in any way that I can.[/size][/color][/font]

[VTypeV4]

Very interesting.. ^^

[whynot]

I have a 4 channel Behringer mixer. Purchase around 15 years ago for stage in-ear monitoring control. Used 2-3 times a week for 4 years. Been in the garage for 10. Fired it up a few weeks back and works perfectly.
My only experience of Behringer so far but a positive one.

[martin8708]

Great Topic .
Just started up in a new band , and typically no-one has a PA .
This is the first time I have taken a serious look at Behringer , they are quite blatant about their manufacture facility in China , unlike some American and British labels that are made in PRC but seems to kept on the quiet .

I have been looking a Europower ( awful name ) 2000 watt power amp and possibly a mixer as well .
Available for £200 from Amazon , the power amp seems like a really good deal ,and a mere 50 squids gets a 10 channel mixer.
The other alternative is picking up a second hand Peavey CS 800 which is probably a bit more rock and roll.
This thread has cast some doubt in my mind , but then again , I have blown a SWR amp , had a TraceAcoustic amp that thought it was a toaster , and blown an Electrovoice speaker , so some good quality gear has let me down .
The other fly in the ointment is a recent visit to an amp repair specialist in Southampton and I could not help but notice the amount of deceased Behringer amps in various states of repair . ( maybe it is the Ford Escort argument , more of them around , so more of them to go wrong )

So do I take a chance on the Skoda of the amp world , or stick with the Battlestar Gallactica of the CS800.

Cheers , Martin.

Edited March 25, 2013 by martin8708

[discreet]

[quote name='martin8708' timestamp='1364247273' post='2023898']
So do I take a chance on the Skoda of the amp world, or stick with the Battlestar Gallactica of the CS800.
[/quote]

You can't buy a more reliable car than a Skoda.

[VTypeV4]

CS800.. Legendary! I ran a CS1200X for a while too..

I'd be more inclined to run with a Peavey amplifier inspite of their weight. I've never had one die or fail. They can seem a bit 'underated' ie not as loud as one might percieve x amount of watts to be but they're reasonably inexpensive second hand. New ones are probably even better like the IPR series which are mega light and the PV series are the same as the budget model Crest as the two companies are now associated..

I've nothing against the Behringer amps but I've had plenty of experience with Peavey over the years.

[swanbrook]

Has anybody tried their inuke power amps ? I am thinking of buying one for back up or for small vocal pa gigs.
They seem pretty cheap but kinda handy to have one in the rack as its class d and won't way much and chances are it will never be used.
But I would love some feed back if you have used them
D

Edited March 25, 2013 by swanbrook

[Monckyman]

Google is your friend

[tauzero]

[quote name='martin8708' timestamp='1364247273' post='2023898']
So do I take a chance on the Skoda of the amp world , or stick with the Battlestar Gallactica of the CS800.
[/quote]

The Europowers are built like tanks and make the signal that you stick into the input louder without making a lot of difference to it in other ways.

I have had problems with one Behringer product - a PMX3000 that I bought with a blown PSU, got the PSU replaced, and some time later it blew again. I sold the remains. However, the other Behringer products I have and have had (including a EP2500 power amp that I sold when I went to active speakers) have been fine. I currently use a Xenyx 1002B mixer for PA duties for vocals in the covers bands and the entire band in the ceilidh band.