New pots saved my bass!

[gjones]

I recently changed the pots on my Jazz and it's brought it back to life. I tend to chop and change pickups, necks, body, hardware etc on my Jazzes. Recently I bought a set of dimarzio model J pickups and fitted them to one of my Jazzes, which had just a bog standard Japanese control plate and electronics from a 1994 Squier. I hated the sound, which was muddy and indistinct, so I sold them and bought a set of Wizard 64s......which also sounded muddy and indistinct. Putting 2 and 2 together I assumed that it must be the electronics which were affecting the sound, so bought a cheap set of Chinese pots on a ready made control plate from ebay AND (you guessed it) The pickups STILL sounded rotten and lifeless.
On the advice of another basschatter I bought a set of CTS pots on a solderless wiring loom from KiOgon, on basschat, and what an AMAZING difference they made to the sound of the pickups. They now sound punchy as hell with the neck pickup sounding round, fat and precisionlike and the bridge pickup sounding pokey and jacolike with a lovely warmth to it with the tone turned down.
I never realised that a simple upgrade to a bass's electronics could make such a difference to the sound.
I'm a very happy bunny and I've never had such a great sound from a passive Jazz.

Edited August 8, 2012 by gjones

[Ou7shined]

[gary mac]

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1344436877' post='1764469']





[/quote]

[gjones]

Of course the sound of my old pots could also have had something to do with my shocking soldering skills. The new wiring loom required no soldering.

[gjones]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1344438069' post='1764497']
Yip some folk will say swapping pots out doesn't do anything.
[/quote]

Yes, I think some bassists have cloth ears. Many can't tell the difference between maple and rosewood fretboards (oops do I hear the sound of another can of worms opening there?).

Edited August 8, 2012 by gjones

[skidder652003]

[i]Yep big up to KiOgon, transformed my bass![/i]

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1344450233' post='1764823']
Of course the sound of my old pots could also have had something to do with my shocking soldering skills. The new wiring loom required no soldering.
[/quote]

This would be a far more digestible explanation for those in the know.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1344455293' post='1764943']
So do you reckon swapping out cheap and nasty pots for better jobs won't make a difference?
[/quote]

They may "feel" better, they may not crackle like your old ones did, and it has been proved that by saying you have fitted CTS pots to an instrument will somehow make it slightly more desirable/sell-able... but the fact of the matter is that they have no inherent ability to enhance your sound in the way some would have you believe.
To some people, as with most electronic components, pots hold some mystery and this makes it relatively easy to bestow magical properties upon them - once you actually see inside one (or routinely work with them) they loose all mystic appeal.

[KiOgon]

If you upgrade any components, not just on a bass, to ones of 'top spec' you surely expect an improvement? Otherwise why waste money buying 'better' pick ups, or top quality strings over cheap ones?

Why pay for quality tyres on your car? They're just black round things right?

A very important point made by the OP is that if you're changing pick ups, usually at considerable expense, you may well not get the improvement you expect if your wiring + all the components in the signal path, (not just pots), capacitor, wiring & soldering are not up to a high standard. You can't deny that.

[Beer of the Bass]

Just wondering, were the new ones the same nominal value as the old ones, and did you measure the value of the old ones?

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1344457181' post='1764978']
Well I can say most definitely mine improved. I have no idea what the pots were that went in except they are full size and only just fitted but there was a noticeable difference.

Not a day and night difference but certainly a noticeable one . Certainly more treble coming through and that was with a cheap ass disc cap that was also in the box of bits.

I know whats in them and I know how they work. But then again I also know cheap sh*te sometimes acts just like cheap sh*te and doesn't always do what it says on the tin

Take for example a car battery. Basically for a given rating they are all the same. They are all made basically the same, a lot are made in the same factory and some manufacturers sell the same battery in different colours at different price points and there is no black magic in them.

However buy a cheap and nasty sh*te battery you are getting a cheap nasty sh*te battery that regardless of what the sticker says just won't be as good.

That and when your best mate is a full on dogs balls spark who knows their stuff says there is a difference in components . I believe him
[/quote]

How come it's only internet golden-ears that claim this then... the manufacturers sure don't.

Check out Stewy-mac for example, what do they say about CTS pots? Do they make extravagant claims of life altering tonality? Nope they correctly state that they are "[url="http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Potentiometers/CTS_Control_Pots.html"]smoother and more accurate[/url]" than other varieties and have components which may mean they could last longer - although I suggest that the construction material on the majority of pots (cheap or expensive) will out last it's carbon track any time.

I rarely sell basses that don't have CTS in them... but that because it's what my customers want... they want reliable components. They don't want fairy-tales.

I'm honestly pleased for anyone if they are happy with their new tone after swapping them out. Perhaps [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ"]this[/url] might be pertinent.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='KiOgon' timestamp='1344458480' post='1765012']
If you upgrade any components, not just on a bass, to ones of 'top spec' you surely expect an improvement? Otherwise why waste money buying 'better' pick ups, or top quality strings over cheap ones?

[b]Why pay for quality tyres on your car? They're just black round things right?[/b]
...
[/quote]

No that's slightly facetious. But continuing the analogy, when we are speaking about the musical response of pots you might as well be saying to your tyre guy "don't get the air for your tyres here, it's free. The garage round the corner charges 20p air... it's bound to be better".

[KiOgon]

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1344460571' post='1765052']
No that's slightly facetious. But continuing the analogy, when we are speaking about the musical response of pots you might as well be saying to your tyre guy "don't get the air for your tyres here, it's free. The garage round the corner charges 20p air... it's bound to be better".
[/quote]
Nothing facetious about it, we are talking analogue values that can readily be measured & justified, tyre performance or components in a signal path.

The air for 20p may well be 'better', how would you know without testing & comparing? Otherwise you're just jumping to conclusions.

[gjones]

Well the old Squier pots and the chinese set I got, already wired up on a control plate, both sounded naff. When I installed the CTS pots my pickups came to life. I'm only going by the evidence of what my ears told me and the difference was like between night and day. I know nothing about electronic components.

[gjones]

[quote name='KiOgon' timestamp='1344458480' post='1765012']
If you upgrade any components, not just on a bass, to ones of 'top spec' you surely expect an improvement? Otherwise why waste money buying 'better' pick ups, or top quality strings over cheap ones?
[/quote]

Very true. Why spend £150 on a set of Lindy Fralins when you could have a secondhand set of pickups from an Squier affinity for £15. If subtle upgrades to the quality of a pickup's component parts can make a big difference to their sound quality, why can't the same improvement be found when you upgrade your electronics?

After all a pickup is just wire and some magnets.

Edited August 8, 2012 by gjones

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1344460571' post='1765052']
No that's slightly facetious. But continuing the analogy, when we are speaking about the musical response of pots you might as well be saying to your tyre guy "don't get the air for your tyres here, it's free. The garage round the corner charges 20p air... it's bound to be better".
[/quote]

Not wanting to knock the stuff KiOgon does.... given how soldering iron resistant a lot of folk are on here... I can believe a well made set of components could be better than an idiot made set.....

I am more intreaged by all the "CTS pots changed my tone" thing... would be fascinating to actually test... I guess there could be intolerances to the pot track? or something inducing additional capacitance?

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1344463698' post='1765126']
Very true. Why spend £150 on a set of Lindy Fralins when you could have a secondhand set of pickups from an Squier affinity for £15. If subtle upgrades to the quality of a pickup's component parts can make a big difference to their sound quality, why can't the same improvement be found when you upgrade your electronics?

After all a pickup is just wire and some magnets.
[/quote]
because there are many different variables in the construction of that pickup that affect it's working.
A pot is a variable resistor, and while one can be smoother in it's sweep, something giving 250k ohm resistance should sound the same as something else giving 250k ohm resistance.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='KiOgon' timestamp='1344462528' post='1765093']
Nothing facetious about it, we are talking analogue values that can readily be measured & justified, tyre performance or components in a signal path.[/quote]

You are still applying the tyre analogy wrongly - by all means say fitting new pups is like fitting new tyres because yes you can produce firm data from the resultant change... stopping distance, improved cornering // voltage, impedance, frequency response. Indeed, we can clearly see new data for improved tyres... but where is the measured data for improved tone you speak about?

The variable resistors in a basic wiring loom have no effect on luscious tones - we may perceive that installing a new set improves tone because we expect them to... but they don't.
The job of a vol pot is to select how much of the signal is sent to ground and that's it - and the tone pot's job is similar only we have stuck a cap there which predetermines a shelf for a specific part of the signal to be sent to earth.


[quote name='KiOgon' timestamp='1344462528' post='1765093']
The air for 20p may well be 'better', how would you know without testing & comparing? Otherwise you're just jumping to conclusions.
[/quote]

It's all the same air bud, and quite frankly considering the service you provide for BC I'm surprised that you are saying otherwise.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Ou7shined

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1344466086' post='1765184']
because there are many different variables in the construction of that pickup that affect it's working.[/quote]

Absolutely.
The reason you spend the extra on a Lindy Fralin is because it sounds different... the sort of different that is difficult to get all the time.

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1344466086' post='1765184']A pot is a variable resistor, and while one can be smoother in it's sweep, something giving 250k ohm resistance should sound the same as something else giving 250k ohm resistance.
[/quote]

Right again.
Your 250k is the same as mine = the air in your tyres is the same as the air in mine. The type of air makes no difference as to how the tyre functions.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Ou7shined

[Stacker]

My tuppenth worth, here: the quality of the hook-up wire used between pots and the quality of the solder (and soldering technique) used are significant contributing factors to how a harness performs.

[KiOgon]

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1344469986' post='1765230']
It's all the same air bud,
[/quote]
You have no idea if the air is the same or not if you haven't tested it, yes it might have started the same but after different compressor, filters, etc. even the pressure may well be more accurate on the machine where you have to pay 20p.

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1344470347' post='1765232']
Absolutely.
The reason you spend the extra on a Lindy Fralin is because it sounds different... the sort of different that is difficult to get all the time.

[color=#0000FF]You're missing the point, which the OP was making in the first place - if you fit expensive pick ups to a sub standard or faulty wiring loom, how do you expect them to perform properly?[/color]

Right again.
Your 250k is the same as mine = the air in your tyres is the same as the air in mine. The type of air makes no difference as to how the tyre functions.
[/quote]

Wrong again.
But enough about tyres

Edited August 9, 2012 by KiOgon

[bremen]

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1344460179' post='1765040']


I'm honestly pleased for anyone if they are happy with their new tone after swapping them out. Perhaps [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ"]this[/url] might be pertinent.
[/quote]

Highly pertinent, good man that Ethan.

Also: the quality of wire between pickup and jack does NOT have an effect on the sound (unless you know you've replaced 'inferior' wire with 'superior' wire). I believe there's a $1000000 dollar prize for anyone that can prove it does. Been on offer for years now and no-one's dared claim it.

[EBS_freak]

A lot of players may find this a worthwhile upgrade.

[charic]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1344503628' post='1765440']
A lot of players may find this a worthwhile upgrade.


[/quote]

Don't use this is you have any kind of scratch in your ear at the time... It gave me an ear infection

In all fairness once I read the instructions I found out it said "don't use on open wounds"... my fault

[gjones]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1344503628' post='1765440']
A lot of players may find this a worthwhile upgrade.


[/quote]

[size=4]Very true. I'm just passing on the evidence of my ears and I heard a huge improvement when I fitted KiOgon's [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]wiring loom compared to the other two looms I tried. Maybe that was due to the CTS pots, or maybe it was due to a better grade of wire or maybe it was due to my rotten soldering on the other looms garbling the signal BUT the difference was night and day once it was fitted. The pickups went from from mushy mud to crystal clear. I'll leave others to debate why that might have been.[/font][/size]

Edited August 9, 2012 by gjones