xgsjx Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 The other things such as Bar Staff & Security are not jobs that would be done as a hobby, whereas playing an instrument is. I prefer to get paid & most gigs usually are, but I don't mind playing for free occasionally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_derby Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='waynepunkdude' timestamp='1342875961' post='1742206'] I'm more pissed off with people who think they can tell others what they should do in there spare time. [/quote] Where's that 'like' button when you need it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slobluesine Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='waynepunkdude' timestamp='1342876092' post='1742210'] No one is forcing you to play if you don't want to do the gig don't but don't go around judging those who do it for the fun. [/quote] point taken, i kinda think it would help the cause if bands refused to play for free tho? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I'm playing right now. If you have a problem with playing for free, you are welcome to send me some money, pm for details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomBassmonkey Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) [quote name='slobluesine' timestamp='1342876001' post='1742208'] 'festival' gigs seem to be the worst, your gonna enjoy your self so you dont deserve to be paid, [/quote] Yeah, I can see how as a band that needs to promote youselves, playing a gig to lots of people that probably aren't there to see you and likely haven't heard of you before is a bad idea. Or wait... Lots of people play for fun, you don't expect to get paid to go and watch a gig you enjoy, playing a gig is no different to some people. If you're a good band and you look around, it's not hard to get paid a couple of hundred a gig. The biggest problem is promoters that aren't actually involved in the pub, if they have to pay £600 to bands, it's unlikely they'll make that back. Even a promoter that does work for the pub, £600 is a lot of beers to sell when the majority of bands only pull in a handful of people. Edited July 21, 2012 by ThomBassmonkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slobluesine Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1342876985' post='1742236'] So wait. If I get a few mates together for a bit of craic. My first gig in 10 years just doing it for shits and giggles I should ask the landlord for money [/quote] eerrrr YEP!!! pubs regularly pay bands if they ask, then again if they offer to play for free they think maybe every other band should play for free Edited July 21, 2012 by slobluesine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Not just musicians having to work for nothing - internships, work placements, "volunteer" border agency staff.... I work for an education charity and we rely on volunteers, mainly from the world of engineering to help at our events - they all really enjoy it and help out regularly, so I guess if the circumstances are right, playing for nothing could be OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) [quote name='slobluesine' timestamp='1342874065' post='1742166'] just cos it's enjoyabe doesn't mean you should do it for free, maybe i should be more specific.. its the gigs where people pay to get in, sound, lighting, security, bar staff, EVERYONE gets paid except the band [/quote] In those situations, the bands should get paid. After all, the punters are in general paying to see the bands, not the security or bar staff. And without the bands, the need for someone doing the sound and lighting (unless a DJ) is remote. Whilst we (well many of us) do this as a hobby, it is actually working doing a gig. If a venue is charging people to see my band, I think I should get some of that money. I also find it strange that venues which charge people to get in invariably pay far less than those which don`t have an admittance fee. Edited July 21, 2012 by Lozz196 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushers Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 i shall be playing for free this year at least 2 gigs sorry if it pisses some people off but i dont care Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slobluesine Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1342877966' post='1742263'] so I go say to him. "I've got a few mates together we want to play for shits and giggles" He says okay. I then go "Okay then that'll be £250" No offence but seriously you need to realise their is no set in stone "Employment rules" when it comes to music. Imagine all the guys and girls in a Dublin pub with Banjos Fiddles acoustics and maybe a tin whistle and a Bodhrán turning around at the end of the night and asking the landlord for payment. Seriously if music equals money in every circumstance my first reaction is your a greedy sod and in it for the wrong reasons. [/quote] as i said on page1.... its the gigs where people pay to get in, sound, lighting, security, bar staff, EVERYONE gets paid except the band Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassfunk Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) I wouldn't play with the covers band for free, but I'd play a 30 min originals set for free. IMHO half the bands I see don't deserve to get paid anyway. They turn up late with sub standard gear (I mean broken/no leads etc. not cheap gear) get drunk and play a sub-standard set that only entertains the 15 or so mates they've managed to get to come and see them. If I took the same lax attitude in my day job I'd be out on my arse! Edited July 21, 2012 by bassfunk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I[quote name='slobluesine' timestamp='1342878413' post='1742274'] its the gigs where people pay to get in, sound, lighting, security, bar staff, EVERYONE gets paid except the band [/quote] I suppose it's because playing in a band is fun, whereas working behind a bar isn't. (FWIW, I rarely play for nowt, but I can understand why people do) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slobluesine Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1342878516' post='1742279'] I I suppose it's because playing in a band is fun, whereas working behind a bar isn't. (FWIW, I rarely play for nowt, but I can understand why people do) [/quote] but bar staff generally cant play music and a gig is about music not shifting beer, or maybe i've got it all wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='slobluesine' timestamp='1342878702' post='1742285'] but bar staff generally cant play music and a gig is about music not shifting beer, or maybe i've got it all wrong [/quote] Most decent gig venue bars seem to employ musicians as bar staff, the shift work fits in a bit better with going off to play music sometimes, and a boss involved in music will understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Thudmaster May Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 No problem with 'muso's' who want to play for free! But don't call me!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slobluesine Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1342878994' post='1742290'] Most decent gig venue bars seem to employ musicians as bar staff, the shift work fits in a bit better with going off to play music sometimes, and a boss involved in music will understand. [/quote] so it's acceptable for a muso working a bar to get paid while the muso on stage doesn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leschirons Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Quite happy to play some free gigs if it's for charity or even if it's just the chance to play with some really good musicians. I play because I enjoy it although I do get paid 99% of the time. I can quite understand though that many simply enjoy playing. Even if it costs them £20 in fuel and drinks. Up to them really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='slobluesine' timestamp='1342879198' post='1742293'] so it's acceptable for a muso working a bar to get paid while the muso on stage doesn't? [/quote] I don't expect to get paid when I'm pouring drinks by my choice. I just made a cup of tea for my mate who came round, didn't charge him, my tea bags and everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Hope this doesn't end up like another of the OPs previous threads where he stamps his feet & goes on & on for page after page demanding money until someone gives up & pays to shut him up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='slobluesine' timestamp='1342874065' post='1742166'] just cos it's enjoyabe doesn't mean you should do it for free, maybe i should be more specific.. its the gigs where people pay to get in, sound, lighting, security, bar staff, EVERYONE gets paid except the band [/quote] Depends doesn't it. And I don't think the situation you describe is particularly prevalent, I agree many bands get paid little, a percentage of the door or bar takings perhaps. But it doesn't bother me. Good bands with marketability will give themselves a chance, and the crap falls by the wayside, at least they got a chance to play. The venue and its staff are providing a quantifiable service with associated costs, the band are purely qualitative, if they give the punters a good experience there's a chance they will eventually get to a position where they can demand payment in return for the economic benefits of supplying an audience who will pay the venue and its associated suppliers. If you're in an originals band trying to build an audience and get exposure, then of course you are going to play for free. In the same way fledgling sound or lighting engineers may work or shadow for free to get some experience and break into their industries and develop enough skills and reputation to get paid. One does a sort of cost/benefit analysis and makes a decision about financial reward for your art. Once you have a reputation with monetary value in terms of demand then you'd be a fool, or naive, to work for free. I suppose if Anthony Jackson decided he had enough wedge and offered his services for free you could argue he might be putting some other less lauded sessioniers out of business, but there are only so many hours in the day so it would have little impact, as someone who wanted Marcus Miller on their music would pay for him regardless of Anthony's economic proposition, this is art after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I reckon this applies to the playing music situation just as well: [quote name='waynepunkdude' timestamp='1332753759' post='1592401'] I do re-finishes and was thinking of doing it as a sideline but when you start charging you have to make sure you have to be up to professional standards I wasn't sure I was so I stick to doing my own and friends for no charge. [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Vincent Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='slobluesine' timestamp='1342878702' post='1742285'] but bar staff generally cant play music and a gig is about music not shifting beer, or maybe i've got it all wrong [/quote] Ermmmm.....Yes,you have....Mostly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slobluesine Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1342880758' post='1742324'] Depends doesn't it. And I don't think the situation you describe is particularly prevalent, I agree many bands get paid little, a percentage of the door or bar takings perhaps. But it doesn't bother me. Good bands with marketability will give themselves a chance, and the crap falls by the wayside, at least they got a chance to play. The venue and its staff are providing a quantifiable service with associated costs, the band are purely qualitative, if they give the punters a good experience there's a chance they will eventually get to a position where they can demand payment in return for the economic benefits of supplying an audience who will pay the venue and its associated suppliers. If you're in an originals band trying to build an audience and get exposure, then of course you are going to play for free. In the same way fledgling sound or lighting engineers may work or shadow for free to get some experience and break into their industries and develop enough skills and reputation to get paid. One does a sort of cost/benefit analysis and makes a decision about financial reward for your art. Once you have a reputation with monetary value in terms of demand then you'd be a fool, or naive, to work for free. I suppose if Anthony Jackson decided he had enough wedge and offered his services for free you could argue he might be putting some other less lauded sessioniers out of business, but there are only so many hours in the day so it would have little impact, as someone who wanted Marcus Miller on their music would pay for him regardless of Anthony's economic proposition, this is art after all. [/quote] but why would you not expect to get some of the takings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slobluesine Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1342880411' post='1742318'] Hope this doesn't end up like another of the OPs previous threads where he stamps his feet & goes on & on for page after page demanding money until someone gives up & pays to shut him up. [/quote] this is a general discusssion big stu, no outcome expected, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='slobluesine' timestamp='1342882461' post='1742353'] but why would you not expect to get some of the takings? [/quote] Running a small venue is not easy or very financially rewarding, many go down, and most of the small London venues I play with Kit or London Zulu are clearly doing it because they believe in putting on live music as a good healthy thing, and the owners are quite passionate about it. I would rather have good places for fledgling originals bands to play but not get paid, or paid little, for playing, than make these venues unviable because of some sort of mandatory musicians union fee for bands playing. Next thing you know bands are out and cheap DJs are in. It's not just one band playing mate, it's often four or five in one evening. Are you suggesting a small venue gives £1000 of its profit away to the five fledgling originals bands in an evening? It won't work, it never has. Once the band develops a following, then they can hire bigger venues and services and put on bigger shows, but no doubt you'll be pissed off about that too as you probably consider that to be 'pay to play', which of course it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.gif.9ad672bb8b84505709f76b39c8c256ec.gif)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.