I don't really understand Rickenbackers

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='bartelby' timestamp='1342880923' post='1742327']
Not quite the same though is it.
[/quote]

Its what Cliff Burton played, so is the same.

[Beer of the Bass]

And the mudbucker style pickups on the Ibanez basses were usually a skinny single coil under the huge cover (at least on the one I owned), so the sound is closer to a stock ric than to a Gibson anyway.

[spongebob]

[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1342880172' post='1742312']
He used a Precision as well...the one he cut into a teardrop shape.
P
[/quote]

I know he played a P on the first album - and from I've read, also on 'Lakeside Park' and elements of 'By-Tor' as well!

[12stringbassist]

[quote name='cloudburst' timestamp='1342719611' post='1739991']
However, some of my favourite Paul McCartney lines in the psychedelic period, apparently played on a Rickenbacker, have a warm smooth honey tone.And how come some of his basslines sounded so un-Ric?[/quote]

Paul still used his Hofner on quite a number of later Beatles tracks.
He rolled off the treble on his bass to accentuate the bassiness of it, in keeping with The Beatles known sound.

[quote name='cloudburst' timestamp='1342719611' post='1739991']
My summary understanding (based on only a little experience) of Rickenbackers would be as follows:
- Most bass players like the look of a Ric
- A small number of bass players love the Ric sound (an important group with a valid opinion, but still a minority)
- Almost no bass players rate Rics for their playability

But how far am I off beam with the above generalisation? [/quote]

Some do love them, some like them, some don't really care what a bass looks like. Some bassists can't stand the sight of a Ric. The idea of one gives them the creeping horrors. There is a lot of unfortunate reverse snobbery about them.

Most players will be aware of the sound of certain Ric players basses (Squire, Foxton, Lemmy, etc) but will not know when a Ric is used on most other recordings. You can make a Ric sound pretty much like any other passive bass with sensible EQ and tone setting. I've used them for deep thudding blues with no effort at all. There is no typical Ric sound. You can get the CLANK that everyone talks about on a Ric, yes, but you can also get it on some other basses too, by experimenting with settings on amps and the other bass.

Playability is all down to the personal taste of the player. I have 3 Ric 4003's and like them all. Other people will hate them. That's up to them. It doesn't make the bass bad.
A lot of people moan about the 'sharp' edge binding. It can be worked round - you get used to playing with your arm not resting on the bass in the same way. I do it without thinking about it. The pickup cover can be removed if you don't like it. I've kept mine on.

[Green Alsatian]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1342881117' post='1742332']
Its what Cliff Burton played, so is the same.
[/quote]
Cliff played a Rick - the mudbucker was a modification that he did to it shortly after joining Metallica, along with replacing the bridge pickup with a Jazz bass single coil (a DiMarzio, I read) and putting a Seymour Duncan strat pickup in the bridge, where the foam mute once was.

Here's him playing it pre-modification in his old band Agents of Misfortune (with Jim Martin on guitar) and with Trauma, the band he was in before joining Metallica

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-QOujfgf8s[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpURVo6u-F8[/media]

Lemmy went from a Hopf bass in Hawkwind to a Rick which he later (in the mid 70s) which he modified with a chrome Gibson Thunderbird pickup in the neck position (his heavily-modified 'Rickenbastard'). Here it is before the fingerboard was replaced with the maple/stars:



Bruce Foxton (The Jam) moved from his Ibanez copy (with a P-Bass style pickup cover) to a Rick (or rather, Ricks - he had quite a few!) around the time of In The City (the first album) coming out, probably bought them with his advance.

Edited July 21, 2012 by Green Alsatian

[bartelby]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1342881117' post='1742332']
Its what Cliff Burton played, so is the same.
[/quote]

Really? I thought it was a burgundy Ric.

[Eljay]

Rickenbacker Company has their own little world, not too far from me in SoCal. I intro'd myself to John Hall at NAMM, pretty nice guy, his family's business 2nd generation I believe. They sell all they can make and then some. He's been offered $$$$$$$$ to sell the company and/or license models for overseas production. Won't do it.
I understand he's got a collection af Rickenbacker instruments that would shock the World!

Here in the States, there has been some quite recently who have been adamant about terrible QC coming from the factory on the latest releases.

Then again, here in the States there are posters who proclaim what's what with their finger up their....ear.

I totally liked my 2 Ric basses, and after a simple set-up by a very good tech, they both sounded awesome to me. The Laredo especially is a real under-the-radar bass, I absolutely got into it, wider neck and much more basic eq than the 4003. I heard it was built for Macca to consider as a lighter alternative to the 4003.

My FG 4003 was great too. It was a late 2010 I think model with the vintage capacitor pull. The eq took a bit of tweaking, but after I got it, I found some great tones on this bass using only stock strings. Once my tech set it up, it had perfect action, smooth as butter. I made a point of stating that I'm not a Geddy Lee or Chris Squire bassist, I laid down a deep pocket, real phat, with both these basses, and they're not normally associated with R&B, but could and should be. Great tone IME.

I think the concensus is you either like 'em or hate 'em. They're certainly not Fenders, that's a good thing.
My thought is that they are very well-made, distinctive sounding basses. There's after-market bridges, there are fittings fo removing the pup cover.
Leave 'em be I say!!

They're Rickenbackers, and man do they ever hold re-sale value. I had so many offers when I put mine on the block......

Edited July 21, 2012 by Eljay

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='bartelby' timestamp='1342885957' post='1742406']
Really? I thought it was a burgundy Ric.
[/quote]

Its either a common, mass produced Japanese copy, to go with the other Japanese bass he played, or a fairly uncommon expensive bass modified to look like a specific inaccurate copy.

[bartelby]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1342902402' post='1742675']
Its either a common, mass produced Japanese copy, to go with the other Japanese bass he played, or a fairly uncommon expensive bass modified to look like a specific inaccurate copy.
[/quote]

An expensive bass modified to get the sound he wanted, perhaps.

Every site that mentions is calls it a Rickenbacker 4001 (with Gibson EB-0 and dimarzio Jazz pickups)

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='bartelby' timestamp='1342902729' post='1742680']
An expensive bass modified to get the sound he wanted, perhaps.

Every site that mentions is calls it a Rickenbacker 4001 (with Gibson EB-0 and dimarzio Jazz pickups)
[/quote]

Check the ones saying Peter Hook played a Rick too. Its a logic vs internet repeating what everyone else on the internet says thing.

Edit: and now I've looked a bit harder, the binding gap is smaller, real rick ones stop about at the edges of the bridge (unless all the ones that came up on google image search were copies, some were as had no gap). Bolt on copies have it all the way round. This either has a smaller gap or goes all the way and is covered by strap (according ot that page about fakers, binding that goes under the bridge is the tell):

Edited July 21, 2012 by Mr. Foxen

[simon1964]

The binding on that pic does seem to run under the bridge, which as you say, is a tell tale sign for a copy.

[bartelby]

Looks like the same gap on this:

[Shaggy]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1342870705' post='1742098']


Hit me up when you want the necessary valve amps to drive enough it sounds good.
[/quote]

This. Something about maple bodied basses generally that demand to be played thru valve amps - not necessarily with drive, just the warmth seems to bring out full potential. I own 3 ('73 Ric 4001, '77 Gibson RD Artist, and '79 Martin EB-18), and they just don't sound good through anything else - I guess maple is denser and less resonant than mahogany, ash or alder.

Lovely Ric publicity shot above....

[4000]

[quote name='Green Alsatian' timestamp='1342885195' post='1742389']
Cliff played a Rick - the mudbucker was a modification that he did to it shortly after joining Metallica, along with replacing the bridge pickup with a Jazz bass single coil (a DiMarzio, I read) and putting a Seymour Duncan strat pickup in the bridge, where the foam mute once was.

Here's him playing it pre-modification in his old band Agents of Misfortune (with Jim Martin on guitar) and with Trauma, the band he was in before joining Metallica

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-QOujfgf8s[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpURVo6u-F8[/media]

Lemmy went from a Hopf bass in Hawkwind to a Rick which he later (in the mid 70s) which he modified with a chrome Gibson Thunderbird pickup in the neck position (his heavily-modified 'Rickenbastard'). Here it is before the fingerboard was replaced with the maple/stars:



Bruce Foxton (The Jam) moved from his Ibanez copy (with a P-Bass style pickup cover) to a Rick (or rather, Ricks - he had quite a few!) around the time of In The City (the first album) coming out, probably bought them with his advance.
[/quote]

This.

Burton's was actually a Ric that was modified (same with Joey DeMaio). I've seen interviews with people who have actual experience of the bass that confirm it. I'd rather take their word for it than speculation. I think you need to really study the minute differences between Ricks even months apart to build a bigger picture. My 2 x'72's, one Feb, one August, have different shape headstocks and different sized bodies, but they're both 100% genuine. BTW, a mudbucker used to be one of Dawk's favourite Ric mods.....

Of the bulk of Lemmy's main basses, the only questionable ones are the maple-board one (which even he says is a Rick; ask him) - as a maple board is a mod I've considered many times it doesn't prove anything either way - and the later one that he had done to kind of resemble his signatures, but maple-topped. Actually the one above was his original 4000, his first Rick, in which he put a T/Bird pickup. The bass with the star inlays was bound; this one wasn't (last time I saw it it was with Rickenbacker ready to be restored; there's a vid on Youtube). Of course it could be that it's since been done and I haven't yet seen the result.

Foxton used an Ibanez prior to getting the real thing (well-documented in interviews) although he did comment that he didn't really notice any difference. Hook used a Hondo II which he described as "crap" IIRC.

I don't quite understand why people feel the need to put misinformation out there.

Edited July 22, 2012 by 4000

[Green Alsatian]

'To Live is to Die', a book about Cliff's life features an account of the mods that Cliff requested for his Rick. The Strat pickup was first, then the Jazz bass pickup and finally, the mudbucker, post-joining Metallica.

Here are some nice (but blurry) pics of Cliff's bass - you can see where the scratchplate has split next to the mudbucker on the first:

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='bartelby' timestamp='1342944444' post='1742900']
Looks like the same gap on this:

[/quote]

That one stops at the line following from the bridge, whereas the Cliff one goes further. The angle is near identical so it isn't a perspective thing.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Mr. Foxen

[Green Alsatian]

As 4000 said, they weren't all identical. Here's my (much missed) 4001 from July 1982 (was originally a Jetglo but I sanded it down) - the binding is closer, like on Cliff's. This was a genuine Rick.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Green Alsatian

[Mr. Foxen]

I've always considered binding that passes under the bridge to be one of the main tells of a copy, my CMI looks exactly like that, due to the narrower through neck piece, which is a fairly major construction departure. Joey's bass notes says same, although I don't know how authoratitive that is, since it seems more about crying trademark infringement than actual useful tells.

[4000]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1342963420' post='1743181']
I've always considered binding that passes under the bridge to be one of the main tells of a copy, my CMI looks exactly like that, due to the narrower through neck piece, which is a fairly major construction departure. Joey's bass notes says same, although I don't know how authoratitive that is, since it seems more about crying trademark infringement than actual useful tells.
[/quote]

If the info in the various posts above isn't enough for you (especially Green Alsatian's), I suggest you go back and look at loads of pics of loads of genuine Rics. Most of mine have had different sized areas of gap/binding; on my Azure the binding goes further under the bridge than on my Fireglo, leaving a narrower gap. In fact on my Fireglo it's slightly offset. I still don't quite understand why you appear to have decided it's definitely a faker when the evidence (including that from people close to source) tends to suggest it probably isn't. In Hook's case, he has stated outright his was a Hondo (and it's bloody obvious from the pictures). Foxten has stated his original was an Ibanez, again obvious from pics. At no point that I'm aware did Burton or anyone close to him say his was a faker. Which of course doesn't prove anything either way, but is more likely to suggest it's genuine than fake.

FWIW, famous Ric players that didn't resort to fakers:

Squire (appears to have owned one but not aware he used it for anything known, and I have talked to him; mainly used his RM, the 21 fret 4001, the 8 string and a fretless or other basses entirely)
Rutherford
Glover
Lee
McCartney
Hughes / Butler (same bass)
Camp
D'Amour
etc....

FWIW I don't think it matters if someone did use one and some of the copies are very good (some less so - the Hondos were positively horrible), but misinformation I object to.

Edited July 22, 2012 by 4000

[Big_Stu]

FWIW,
Soon after I bought my first bass I started buying a music mag. "Music UK". Around the time of the Bomber tour they did a long i'view with Lemmy. One of the things he spoke about was his Rick bass. From what I remember, he said he'd tried all the big names of basses & Rick's were the only one with a neck that he liked. Fender's were too thick & Gibson too thin. His main bass was unique because when he was bored he decided to refinish it, sanded all the finish off then got distracted. In the following years it had been "bled on, spat on & soaked in beer & bodily fluids", he then cleaned it up by sanding again, which made the body & neck much smaller than new, the entire process of which he reckoned gave it a unique tone.

Course since then I've learnt that a lot of cr*p is made up for young readers of magazines, so it may be BS, though it sounded plausible.

[4000]

Absolutely bob on Stu, although never read about the sanding bit. I think we discussed this before - it must be in another interview because it's not in that one; I've got it around here somewhere and was reading it a while back (unless they did two). I know Chris Squire attributes his unique tone to his bass being sanded smaller but I think we discussed that too and IIRC you said you wouldn't have know about Squire. Other than that Lem's original was "that horrible salmon pink colour" when he got it, so he sanded it off and played it like that, unsealed. He's also said the same elsewhere with a consistent story (I've also spoken to him too on a couple of occasions, FWIW). Lem was my original bass hero when I started, aged 17, in 1980.

The main reasons he likes Rics are the necks and the look. He says he never liked the old pickups which is why he changed them, but he really likes the newer humbuckers.

Apparently he wired his original bass wrong and the output was really low (Peter Cook's worked on it at one point many years ago which is where I got the info) which may also have contributed to the tone. I always liked the sound of his original best. When I used to go and see them in the early '80s he used to swap basses quite a bit and that always had the best sound to me.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1342983599' post='1743460']
If the info in the various posts above isn't enough for you (especially Green Alsatian's), I suggest you go back and look at loads of pics of loads of genuine Rics. Most of mine have had different sized areas of gap/binding; on my Azure the binding goes further under the bridge than on my Fireglo, leaving a narrower gap. In fact on my Fireglo it's slightly offset. I still don't quite understand why you appear to have decided it's definitely a faker when the evidence (including that from people close to source) tends to suggest it probably isn't. In Hook's case, he has stated outright his was a Hondo (and it's bloody obvious from the pictures). Foxten has stated his original was an Ibanez, again obvious from pics. At no point that I'm aware did Burton or anyone close to him say his was a faker. Which of course doesn't prove anything either way, but is more likely to suggest it's genuine than fake.

FWIW, famous Ric players that didn't resort to fakers:

Squire (appears to have owned one but not aware he used it for anything known, and I have talked to him; mainly used his RM, the 21 fret 4001, the 8 string and a fretless or other basses entirely)
Rutherford
Glover
Lee
McCartney
Hughes / Butler (same bass)
Camp
D'Amour
etc....

FWIW I don't think it matters if someone did use one and some of the copies are very good (some less so - the Hondos were positively horrible), but misinformation I object to.
[/quote]

I'm pretty much going just from the photos, and the spotting fakers site, and the pics that are official Ricks, as per the ones above, the other examples in random personal photos could just as well be fakes, I have no way of verifying, some that come up in a google image search have binding all the way round, which is apparently definitely fake. The 'evidence' appears to just be people referring to it as a Rick, in the same way anything that shape is. Obviously I do have a fair few doubts about the usefulness of the faker spotting site since the guy doesn't know the difference between 'right' and 'write', but I lack a better authority on the subject. So working jsut from direct sources, the pics, and official Rick photos. I don't assume a Rick is RIC made any more than I assume anything P bass shaped is Fender made.

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1342988247' post='1743570']
Absolutely bob on Stu, although never read about the sanding bit. I think we discussed this before - it must be in another interview because it's not in that one; I've got it around here somewhere and was reading it a while back (unless they did two). I know Chris Squire attributes his unique tone to his bass being sanded smaller but I think we discussed that too and IIRC you said you wouldn't have know about Squire. Other than that Lem's original was "that horrible salmon pink colour" when he got it, so he sanded it off and played it like that, unsealed. He's also said the same elsewhere with a consistent story (I've also spoken to him too on a couple of occasions, FWIW). Lem was my original bass hero when I started, aged 17, in 1980. [/quote]

You could well be right, I thought it was another forum otherwise I wouldn't have repeated myself. IIRC there's a pink Rick in Madrid HRC attributed to Lemmy which I thought strange. I'll see if I can find a pic, I may be remembering the colour wrongly. Is Lemmy so corporate that he'd do a "signer"?? .
There are some 80's copies of Music UK on Ebay just now, unfortunately not that one. I used to like that mag.

[Stag]

Cliff himself said it was a Ric, and so did his mum or dad...

[4000]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1342989374' post='1743596']


I'm pretty much going just from the photos, and the spotting fakers site, and the pics that are official Ricks, as per the ones above, the other examples in random personal photos could just as well be fakes, I have no way of verifying, some that come up in a google image search have binding all the way round, which is apparently definitely fake. The 'evidence' appears to just be people referring to it as a Rick, in the same way anything that shape is. Obviously I do have a fair few doubts about the usefulness of the faker spotting site since the guy doesn't know the difference between 'right' and 'write', but I lack a better authority on the subject. So working jsut from direct sources, the pics, and official Rick photos. I don't assume a Rick is RIC made any more than I assume anything P bass shaped is Fender made.
[/quote]

I think the thing is, as you've pointed out elsewhere, Ricks are very inconsistent; features / dimensions could vary from one month to the next, particularly in the 60s and early to mid 70's. My old March '73 4000 had a very slim neck, but I once played a March '73 4001 that had one of the biggest necks I've ever played on anything. As I said before, the upper bouts on my Aug '72 are actually smaller than the ones on my Feb.

With copies, Rics are generally much harder to copy well than Fenders, even taking into account the above detail inconsistencies, and there are far less about relative to the real thing. If it looks accurate to an experienced eye it's more likely to be real than not. If in doubt, there's always Jon!