Barefaced Compact/Midget Versus Super12

[Jack]

Hello folks, I'm looking at buying a Barefaced rig and I was all set on a midget and compact but the more I read the more I am tempted by the Super12. Obviously the stack can be split for small gigs and for transport but the Super12 is cheaper and still only 40lbs.

What are the sound differences? Volume? Ease of transport?

[Lozz196]

No experience with the S12, but a Compact/Midget stack is very good. Whichever you go for, I`d recommend getting one with a tweeter - better to have, and not be needed, than the other way round.

[Happy Jack]

I have both a SuperTwelve and a Compact/Midget stack (I'm just greedy, I guess) and they are very different animals.

The SuperTwelve is, essentially, two Midgets in one box. To my ears, it sounds like a Midget ... only much more so. It is very loud, very aggressive & middy, ideally suited to most types of rock. IMHO of course.

The Compact & Midget were designed by Alex to complement each other, and that's the crucial point. Paired, they make a sound that is [i][b]not [/b][/i]the same as either a Compact or a Midget, or the same as 2 x Compacts or 2 x Midgets.

The Compact/Midget stack is louder than the SuperTwelve, but also generates a more complete, rounded tone. It is not inherently as "aggressive & middy", although that can be dialled in (great phrase that ) using the amp's EQ, and that makes it a more flexible rig. Again, IMHO of course.

A word about loudness.

Irrelevant.

Alex's cabs go so loud with any decent amp that you really shouldn't be getting near their max SPL, unless you're playing Knebworth. The issue of which cab is louder is utterly irrelevant to those of us who play in pub bands.

IMHO.

[ShergoldSnickers]

Going purely by the specs, the Super Twelve will be slightly less sensitive in low frequency output, but will extend down just a little further - neither difference will stand out much, and I reckon you'd be pushed to notice. The Compact/Midget setup has more power handling capabilities, and will go louder, but only just - again, you may be pushed to notice. Aside from listening to compare them - which I'd really try to do before buying - it comes down to flexibility and portability. The wheels on the Super Twelve are a godsend, and make moving it about very easy. However, you can't split it like the Compact/Midget rig. On paper, I'd be looking at the cost difference and wondering very hard about what that brings. However, hearing each rig in the flesh could potentially tip it either way if your budget covers both options. They will sound different.

It's all a dilemma I wouldn't mind having. If you can get down to Hull you are more than welcome to try a Super Twelve T.

Edit: Posted just after Happy Jack. He is the one to listen to here, as he has the direct experience.

Edited May 18, 2012 by ShergoldSnickers

[aldude]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1337341561' post='1658428']
Alex's cabs go so loud with any decent amp that you really shouldn't be getting near their max SPL, unless you're playing Knebworth. The issue of which cab is louder is utterly irrelevant to those of us who play in pub bands.
[/quote]

This!

My two cents, I have both the Compact and S12T, the Compact is voiced a little lower whereas the S12T needs the lows dialled in if you just use that, but then as Happy Jack says it's the other way round for the mids, as the S12T has a bucketload but the Compact is less emphatic in that area, but can of course be dialled in. I don't have a midget but then I use both the Compact and S12T for the best of both worlds!

[chris_b]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1337341561' post='1658428']
....A word about loudness.

Irrelevant....
[/quote]

+1

The Barefaced web site constantly emphasises volume and how loud these cabs can go. I'm not interested in volume. If I want louder then I can get another cab, but I would prefer more description relating to tone.

For instance I think the Compact and S12 cabs sound pretty good and could probably replace my current loud rig but for quiet gigs I'm less certain that Alex makes a cab that I can use. I briefly played my amp through a Midget after my AE112 and didn't like the tone at all. Whether I needed some time re EQing or not I don't know but tone is why I buy my gear and I need to have more of an idea of how these cabs sound.

[Happy Jack]

Any time you want to come over, Chris ...

[Jack]

Well 'aggressive and middy' sounds like me, but I plan on using this with a GK Mb Fusion 800, so I'm sure I'll have that covered whichever way I go. In my head I was thinking maybe the Super 12's larger internal volume would do something the 2 smaller cabs couldn't but if they overlap largely then the stack it is, a bit more expensive but modular and easier to move.

Chrisb, what gigs do you do where the Compact is too big? Seriously that thing is pretty darned small!

[chris_b]

Jack, I use an AE112 for my acoustic duo gigs. The tone at low volume is fantastic and a Midget would have to be amazing to beat the Bergantino. I didn't hear it being that good in my very brief A/B at the Bassbash.

In terms of volume I could probably get away with a 110 but tone is the deciding factor.

Several years ago I did suggest that Alex made a high quality 2x8 for small acoustic type gigs. I'd be very interested in one of those.

[Ghost_Bass]

I'd say get the three! Jack is the only sane person around here!

[4 Strings]

I'm interested to hear the S12 sounds like the Midget, I was expecting the extra volume to add depth. I no longer regret not buying one.

If this is not be gained with the S12 and the OP can afford the stack option then I think this is the way to go.

I have a Midget T/Compact set up, playing mainly Motown, soul etc. The Compact sounds best for this, but A-Bing between the two shows there's actually not a great deal of difference between them when playing with a band. But if I'm not using a bass with flats the Compact is perfect.

I'm finding the Midget will cope with almost everything I do on its own. I still take the Compact to Motown gigs (sound) and to big places (for example a 250 seat theatre on Sunday) but the portability of the Midget is compelling and a one way ticket from the big stuff. Rehearsals are transformed from major huffting sessions to just picking up all my stuff in one go.

Definitely get the T version of the Midget if you can, gives you the option.

(I only ever use both cabs together for a funk/disco band which rehearses very loudly and I want the T turned on for the slap but I'm not brave enough to just take the Midget, despite proving to myself that it will be fine on its own!)

[GRAHAM SG1]

I was in a similar position, I was undecided bewteen a midget/compact stack or super twelve, I decided that the super twelve was the way to go as it was still lightweight and easy with the wheels and would cater for just about all the venues I am likely to play, I am happy with my choice, it sounds amazing with my Ampeg PF500 .
I also saved bucketloads of money too !

Edited May 20, 2012 by GRAHAM SG1

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1337353611' post='1658718']
In terms of volume I could probably get away with a 110 but tone is the deciding factor.

Several years ago I did suggest that Alex made a high quality 2x8 for small acoustic type gigs. I'd be very interested in one of those.
[/quote]

There is a long-throw neo PA driver made by Faital that is getting a lot of interest in the DIY community, the 8PR200, and the person behind the fEarful cabs in the US has commercialised 1x8 and 2x8 designs using this called the Crazy8. Apparently this has a very nicely integrated tweeter such that it does a good job on PA/monitor as well - sounds like it might suit your application well? There is a fibreglass(? I think) composite version available which should make it incredibly light too. I thought about using this driver for DIY but decided a pair of 10s would suit me better for the slightly bigger gigs, was a tough choice though and I still might make an ultra-compact 20 litre 1x8 when funds and time allow. B&C also have an 8" neo driver that should be a good one, and Celestion have previewed one for bass guitar that wouldn't be quite so powerful/clean but would be the lightest weight of the lot. I assume they're making these because someone wants them, so I wonder if the market's about to be flooded with high spec 8"-based designs?!

Btw if you don't like the Midget I wouldn't tar all Alex's designs with the same tonal brush... that particular speaker in that small a box is going to be very toppy and bass-light unless you EQ heavily (which it's able to take if you've got the power) but something like the Big Baby would be a lot smoother and deeper, even the Compact will sound more even.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1337601308' post='1662481']
Btw if you don't like the Midget I wouldn't tar all Alex's designs with the same tonal brush... that particular speaker in that small a box is going to be very toppy and bass-light unless you EQ heavily (which it's able to take if you've got the power) but something like the Big Baby would be a lot smoother and deeper, even the Compact will sound more even.
[/quote]

Plus using an amp eqed for a different cab is like saying a line of shoes are no good because you tried someone else's pair that were a different size to you.

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1337601660' post='1662488']
Plus using an amp eqed for a different cab is like saying a line of shoes are no good because you tried someone else's pair that were a different size to you.
[/quote]
I'd agree - but it's worth noting that cabs with particularly uneven freq responses require complex EQ capabilities to alter usefully, which has several disadvantages. Overall I'd say the best cabs are either those with a fairly gently sloping profile that matches what you want, or else just pretty flat allowing you to tweak to taste with just a couple of well-chosen EQ points - where matching heads to cabs comes in. I myself like fairly flat cabs or with a slight upper-mid bias (not as extreme as the 3012HO).

[chris_b]

[quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1337601308' post='1662481']
....Btw if you don't like the Midget I wouldn't tar all Alex's designs with the same tonal brush....
[/quote]

I don't tar any cabs and I've been championing Barefaced from the beginning. Unfortunately I got my Bergantino cabs before Alex started up which is the only reason I haven't owned a BF yet.

So far the only cab I haven’t liked is the Midget. My next cab is 99% likely to be a BF and the Big Baby looks interesting, but the Big Baby and Compact are too big for my small gigs so I wish there was a Big Midget in the catalogue.

[brensabre79]

I should chip in here and say that although both use the same 12" drivers the Super12 is not simply the same as having two Midgets, the sound is different. Alex was at great pains to tell me that the way the two speakers 'couple' in the same cabinet on the Super 12 is what makes it, well... Super! It has the effect of altering the frequency response of the Eminence drivers and fills the little scoop in the low-mid, generating a flatter response than the Midget. This is probably what contributes to the Super12s reputation of being 'middy'

I don't have any trouble getting really low synth bass frequencies out of mine at all, its just a really flat response so you can dial out what you don't like - instead of having to dial in what is missing

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1337612419' post='1662752']
I should chip in here and say that although both use the same 12" drivers the Super12 is not simply the same as having two Midgets, the sound is different. Alex was at great pains to tell me that the way the two speakers 'couple' in the same cabinet on the Super 12 is what makes it, well... Super! It has the effect of altering the frequency response of the Eminence drivers and fills the little scoop in the low-mid, generating a flatter response than the Midget. This is probably what contributes to the Super12s reputation of being 'middy'

I don't have any trouble getting really low synth bass frequencies out of mine at all, its just a really flat response so you can dial out what you don't like - instead of having to dial in what is missing
[/quote]

I'd guess from dims that the internal volume of the S12 is also slightly bigger than 2 midgets so you will get slightly more low extension that way too. As I said on another thread the 3012HO freq response makes it a great candidate driver for using in multiples, better than alone really.

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='Jack' timestamp='1337351075' post='1658667']
Well 'aggressive and middy' sounds like me, but I plan on using this with a GK Mb Fusion 800, so I'm sure I'll have that covered whichever way I go. In my head I was thinking maybe the Super 12's larger internal volume would do something the 2 smaller cabs couldn't but if they overlap largely then the stack it is, a bit more expensive but modular and easier to move.

Chrisb, what gigs do you do where the Compact is too big? Seriously that thing is pretty darned small!
[/quote]

The Compact/Midget stack is on paper a massive sounding thing, that will be louder and lower in the lows, than the S12 (If I recall the figures right)

The Compact on it's own is small sized yes, but the volume it pushes out will fill a 100x25x25 metre hall full of people with headroom left on the LMTube. It is too big for something though, for example I used a midget in a big hall for some sit down birthday party thing, and the best comment was 'the bass is too loud'

I've had a Super12T and it is a middy cab and very flat response loved it just needs changed so I went back to a Coompact.

[Jack]

Whoop! Compact and Midget order placed! Damn you 2 month waiting time!

[4 Strings]

Wow, go for it dude! What made you choose in the end?

[Jack]

Well it seemed like the upsides to the stack were more bottom and modularity. The upsides to the S12 were more mids and price.

In the end, I plan to use a very middy sound anyway (Stingrays or P into a GK Fusion) and I have the money but not the desire to carry one big cabinet . There was only really one choice.

[4 Strings]

You're fortunate to have such deep pockets. Mine two cabs are out more than once a week so I'm feeling it will be justified in a couple of years!

It'll be a long 2 months!

[gjones]

[quote name='Jack' timestamp='1337706527' post='1664340']
Whoop! Compact and Midget order placed! Damn you 2 month waiting time!
[/quote]

I've waited a very long........ two months and 14 days.

So far.

Production problems it seems. Wonder if I'll get a discount?

[deanovw]

I ordered a midget and compact together about four weeks ago. Which doesn't seem that long compared to lots of people.