Guest MoJo Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I play in a rock covers band and currently run a Trace 1215 with a 1518 extension cab. On paper, this rig should be more than ample for my requirements but, as with previous rigs, I find it lacking and have to have the output control on about 5 or 6 (about as loud as it'll go) to provide enough body for the four piece outfit I'm with. Previously, I ran a Peavey Max 450 into two 4ohm 410TVX's and before that, a 1500w Laney B1 into two Marshall MBC410's and found the same issue. I feel it may be down to the sensitivity and performance of the cabs rather than the amp as I get into a similar situation driving the Trace cabs with my Promethean head. I need someone to recommend a cab or cabs that will be up to the job. Preferably something I could buy second hand as I don't have thousands to spend. Not too worried about weight, just fed up of spending out on gear only to end up in the same situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 It depends on what you want: You've got the usual suspect : Barefaced The new kid on the block but looks bloody awesome : EAD and I'm fairly sure there's a couple of manufacturers too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 ha ha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 That must be a very loud band. Another vote for Barefaced. [url="http://www.barefacedbass.com/"]http://www.barefacedbass.com/[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MoJo Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I had considered the Barefaced Super 15 but a new one is a lot of money, not many secondhand ones about and I don't want to buy one only to find out it's not delivering what I need. All the rigs I have used in the past have had to driven hard to provide and real drive or body to the sound of the band. We only have one guitar so there's a lot of sonic space to fill. Some of the songs go down as low as a C# so I need a rig that can handle a low B well too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Have you considered using a valve amp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Lord Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Get yourself a TC Electronic RS212. Somewhat expensive, but quite portable, unrivaled build quality and nothing compares to its sound quality. For the best, you have to fork out just a little more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I don't really understand how a B1 could be 'lacking' anything, really. Apart from a fork-lift truck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Schroeder! There`s a 410, and a 20115 up for grabs on here at the moment. Amazingly powerful. Using my GK MB500 with my Scroeder 21012, in either my punk covers band, or my 8 piece originals band (2 basses, drums, 3 gtrs, keys) I can`t go above 9 o`clock on volume, and that is with all eq flat. Yhey sound scratchy and middy on their own, at quiet tv-volumes, but in a band mix they really shine. Plus, no matter where you stand - apart from behind them - the sound seems to project equally, and powerfully. And, they`re nice and light. The L range are about 50lbs in weight, but even the standard range are only about 70 lbs. Edited March 23, 2012 by Lozz196 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MoJo Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1332496763' post='1589030'] There's something in this. I don't really understand how a B1 could be 'lacking' anything, really. Apart from a fork-lift truck. [/quote] Exactly...that's why I think it's the cabinets, not the amps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MoJo Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 One guitarist (very loud Blackstar head + 4x12) Vocal PA only Medium sized pub gigs The 1215 on it's own struggles to provide in the rehearsal studio. It's loud but lacks body and projection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 [quote name='bassman2790' timestamp='1332497411' post='1589044'] Exactly...that's why I think it's the cabinets, not the amps [/quote] I know Barefaced aren't cheap etc. but by all accounts they are very efficient (as are Schroeder); perhaps there's an owner in your area who would let you try their cab? At least then you would know if your theory is correct... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raggy Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Im kinda guessing you have tried turning the pre shape off and bumping the mids on the EQ? My Hexa sound fantastic with the pre shape engaged on its own, but in a band setting is can get a bit lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MoJo Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I do normally have the preshape off, take out a little 800Hz and have the compressor on but have both controls on zero. This gives a little extra punch without getting 'breathy'. Like I say, It's loud, very loud and produces enough low end to physically flap your trousers and (at the last gig) shake my eyballs. Maybe it is down to tone. If there is anyone in the West Midlands area that can come along and help me, I'd be very grateful as I'm extremely disillusioned with it all at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 [quote name='bassman2790' timestamp='1332494507' post='1588990'] ....this rig should be more than ample for my requirements but, as with previous rigs, I find it lacking.... [/quote] Seems like you have more of a problem than just cabs. Changing everything might work, so: in the For Sale section there is (or was) a Mesa Boogie 410, an 810 and a Barefaced Vintage, the 215 predecessor to the Super15. All of which will knock the socks off your current gear. I'd also get another amp. There's a Genz 9.2 for sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Another +1 for Schroeders for gig-friendly sensitivity and presence. My 1515L is as loud as I'll ever need, and I play with a big rock drummer, and I have a mate who swapped a Trace 410 for a 1212L and is very happy with the volume and depth now. He plays in a traditional two-guitar rock covers band doing Maiden, Priest, Deep Purple, etc, and they're very loud. If you need to go louder than that onstage, you're gonna go deaf very quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MoJo Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 [quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1332500368' post='1589118'] Another +1 for Schroeders for gig-friendly sensitivity and presence. My 1515L is as loud as I'll ever need, and I play with a big rock drummer, and I have a mate who swapped a Trace 410 for a 1212L and is very happy with the volume and depth now. He plays in a traditional two-guitar rock covers band doing Maiden, Priest, Deep Purple, etc, and they're very loud. If you need to go louder than that onstage, you're gonna go deaf very quickly. [/quote] Thanks for that. I've PM'd the guy selling the Schroeder 410, hopefully that'll sort me out Thanks for everyone's comments and advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I play in a few metal bands with 2 guitarists and very enthusiastic drummers. My passive bass goes through a 500w Markbass head and an 8 ohm 4x10 cabinet. I use a lot of pedals but none of them boost my volume at all. So essentially I'm getting 300w of solid state goodness. I've only ever turned it up past halfway on one gig and hardly ever use PA support. So that's what... 150w that im using? And I'm always getting sick tone and plenty of volume So er, that's a vote for markbass! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 [quote name='bassman2790' timestamp='1332498651' post='1589073'] Like I say, It's loud, very loud and produces enough low end to physically flap your trousers and (at the last gig) shake my eyballs. Maybe it is down to tone.[/quote] Try cutting back on the "bass" frequencies and add a lot more mid-range. On it's own it will sounds really "shouty" and unmusical, but you should find that it makes you far more audible within the band mix. I use a BF Vintage now and although it's great, your Trace gear is good too. Unless there has been actual physical damage done to the speakers (which is possible at the volume you appear to be using) then they should cope fine. Watch out for you ears too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) [quote name='bassman2790' timestamp='1332494507' post='1588990'] On paper, this rig should be more than ample for my requirements but, as with previous rigs, I find it lacking and have to have the output control on about 5 or 6 (about as loud as it'll go) to provide enough body for the four piece outfit I'm with.. [/quote] I think the fact that you have had this issue with a few different rigs (decent quality) suggests that it is the tone you select that reduces your ability to "cut through". Too much bass and not enough middle! Edited March 23, 2012 by Conan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MoJo Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 [quote name='Conan' timestamp='1332503128' post='1589177'] I think the fact that you have had this issue with a few different rigs (decent quality) suggests that it is the tone you select that reduces your ability to "cut through". Too much bass and not enough middle! I do need a fair bit of bass to get the weight in my tone but I try to avoid cutting the mids, in fact I usually boost them a little. I'm cutting through ok, just not getting enough weight or body in the sound before reaching the limits of the rig [/quote] I used to go for a more mid driven Steve Harris type tone and that was easily achievable, but with this new band I'm required to drive the low end of the band more and dialling in more low mids has the clip light of the rig on more often than it is not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Try an Orange Terror Bass with your current cab (or with cab and speaker in your combo if possible) just to be sure it's the cabs that are the problem. I'm not a fan of TE stuff, but never found them to be particularly quiet. I was absolutely blown away with the volume on tap with the Orange (and the guitarist and drummer had to leave the room when I cranked it up - they felt physically sick) although I'm using a VERY efficient Tech Soundsystems 4x12... Edited March 23, 2012 by Bigwan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 [quote name='bassman2790' timestamp='1332503901' post='1589199'] ....with this new band I'm required to drive the low end of the band.... [/quote] You need a bigger and more powerful amp to manage the extra "head room" that you'll need to push the bass frequencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MoJo Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1332505269' post='1589232'] You need a bigger and more powerful amp to manage the extra "head room" that you'll need to push the bass frequencies. [/quote] I'd have thought that the 500w into 4 ohms quoted for both the Trace amp and the Promethean would have been ample Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertbass Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Been there and done that and like you, I like a sound with big bottom end. I've tried a lot and I mean a lot of solid state amps and they all suffer from a lack of volume when you turn the bass up. I recon that It's because the power supplies are not man enough for the job. and it seems to me that mosfet amps are quieter still than bipolar amps. When transistor amps first came out it was reconned that a tranny amp was only 1/2 as loud as a valve amp for the same wattage rating and when anyone says that's not right because science says so, they're not using their ears. To double the volume you need 10 times the wattage. this means that you'd need getting on for a 2000w transistor amp to equal the volume of a 100w valve head. Been there and done that as well. I would suggest that you try a valve head if at all possible and see if that solves your problem. I went back to valves and love the volume and sound and perhaps you will too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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