E-C 5 String Tuning

[andybassdoyle]

Hello Folks,

I'm hoping to tap into the collective BC knowledge base (no pun intended) here.

Does anyone have experience of tuning a 5 string E-C instead of the regular B-G? I've tried this on a few basses now over the years and, with the exception of an ACG that I've recently received from Alan C (that I'm still getting used to), I'm struggling to find one that works well tonally with the higher tuning.

Case in point is a Stambaugh I've just traded through BC. It's a truely awesome bass in playability, looks, comfort - killer in fact. Tone is great B-G but when I've restrung it (and adjusted the set up of course) it looses mass in the sound and the top end thins out in a way that just doesn't work for me.

I've been trying to find something that I'm comfortable with for a while now (and let's face it, lots of us like to try new stuff anyway) but I'm starting to realise that I'm struggling a bit. It's not the quality of the basses either as I've tried Alembic and Warwick to name just a couple, same kind of results. Boom B-G, plip E-C.

You might think that a 6 would be the answer and to some extent this is true, the only problem being that we're then into bigger bass territory. Not an issue for me as such as I've got hands large enough to cope but I don't tend to use the lower string and would much prefer to have a small more navigable neck without the extra baggage of the B (I find I can drop manually with the tuner or use a hipshot detuner to cover my really low needs).

Anyways, hopefully you get the picture, be really interested if anyone has some experience or insight into this that you could share.

Cheers,

Andy

[samkeen]

Hi Andy,

I've strung a 5 string fretless E to C once.

My experience was that the strings you use are vitally important (I used Thomastik Infeld groundwounds), and a shorter scale length will allow you a thicker gauge, which might help eliminate the thin sound.

I also found I had to adjust my right hand techniques to deal with the thinner gauge, so perhaps you'll find your tone improves with experience too.

I love the look of your Stambaugh - I've got a custom 5 string singlecut on order at the moment!

Best of luck, Sam

[Mornats]

My Bass Collection 5-string is strung E-C and I had a new brass nut custom made to cater for the E-C gauge (100 - 30 I think it is). However I don't think that doing this solves the weak tone on the high C, the bass is simply set up properly for the string gauge. My high C is a bit weak compared to the other strings but nothing I've considered to be an issue. One caveat here is that I actually rarely play the fiver and even when I do I tend not to stray up to the C much anyway.

[Geek99]

My prose bass e to c is very comfortable to
Play

[andybassdoyle]

Thanks guys. It certainly feels intuative that the string mass might be an issue - there's a lot less going accross the neck with E-C that B-G. I've wandered between light and medium, perhaps I should try something a bit heavier.
Cheers

[andybassdoyle]

BTW points noted on technique although this is a lost cause for me....

[Geek99]

[quote name='andybassdoyle' timestamp='1332438816' post='1588447']
Thanks guys. It certainly feels intuative that the string mass might be an issue - there's a lot less going accross the neck with E-C that B-G. I've wandered between light and medium, perhaps I should try something a bit heavier.
Cheers
[/quote]
Talking to prosebass , he said it would be lower tension with a low b

[funkypenguin]

If you're used to the sound of B-G on a 5er then E-C will seem less full across the range at first. I would definetely recommend heavier gauge strings, 100 E - 30 C is a good starting point. I would also look at your EQ, how do you have your onboard EQ, Pickup pan and your amp set up at the moment?

[bassplace]

My ACG Harlot 5, 0054, is my first 5 string and I have it tuned E-C. Started with the low B but didn't like the B at all. Switched and added a drop-D tuner and I love it. The C can be a little zingy but I usually dial back the treble. I use DR Sunbeams. No lack of low end or thickness. I would like to try a heavier string up top if I can find one.

dunc

[eude]

Yup, heavier strings are you friend.
I used to use 120 - 100 - 80 - 60 - 40 on my 5ers when I played regular scale basses, now I've shifted to 33" basses, 5 and 6 strings, I've moved up to 130/125 - 105 - 85 - 65 - 45 and a 30 C where applicable.
The C can be zingy, like dunc says, but you'll find that on any bass, it's just the nature of the lighter gauge string, but you'll find it sounds thicker than the equivalent would on a 34" or 35".

If you're used to lighter strings and a softer feel, DRs are a great choice for your setup too, as the heavier gauge feel really good on the 33" scale.
I'm keen to try Fodera nickel strings too in the same gauge, they're meant to be very good for this set up as well.

You'll need to share some photos of your new bass here too >> [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/140476-the-acg-thread/"]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/140476-the-acg-thread/[/url]

P.S. if you find DRs a bit pricey here in the UK, I get mine from here >> [url="http://stores.ebay.co.uk/bassspecialties"]http://stores.ebay.co.uk/bassspecialties[/url]

Eude

[azzyrazzy]

I recently strung E-C too on a Warwick. It sounds phenomenal. The C sounds a bit thinner, but it's the nature of that string gauge. Maybe your amp settings and cab plays into it as well. It isn't really as bass string, the C. It's excellent for melodies, soloes or top string for chords. If you want a high note with fat on it, go high up on the D or G string. Totally different timbre, fortunately

[andybassdoyle]

Agreed, the heavier strings seem to work better. I think part of my problem has been that I've moved back from 6 to 5 and having established what works for me well on a 6 it has seemed counter-intuative to go to heavier strings...

Anyhow, have got some 105-32 on now and whilst they are a bit old and knackared this has definately helped 'ground' things a little and thicken up the top end. I've got some elixirs on a spector that sound great so going to give that a try shortly.

Great to have the feedback on this, please keep it coming.

The notes might not be great but at least the tone will be!!

[Cairobill]

I gather c strings work better on a slightly smaller scale, say 33inches. I can't remember the physics that explains it though.

In my experience high c strings on 34inch scale can be a tad weedy at times. I will be able to compare the effects of the different scales when my new high c fiver arrives. It's a 33inch scale beast fom Adamovic.

Nick

[flippyfloop]

I've just received my Overwater SD 33in with high C.
Sounds amazing. I think this is due to the use of specific tone woods. You can get all the info from Overwater web site.
So it seems that using specific wood combinations for a high C bass makes a huge difference. That high C really sings now & that is with light strings.

[bassplace]

Here are some sounds from a gig last fall. This is direct out from my Thunderfunk to soundboard to recorder. Plus a Bassbone in front of that. The playing has it's ups and downs but you'll get the idea.

http://www.asiftrio.org/events.html

This is with pretty old DR Sunbeams.

[andybassdoyle]

Thanks guys, very interesting going over what's been said here.

In the last week or so I've restrung the Stambaugh with Elixir 105-32s and it was a much improved position. However in order to put some context around it I then tried the strings on my 33 ACG as well - wow! My conclusion from all of this was: improvement from better strings but still only in the context of what the bass itself will actually deliver.

So I've left the Elixirs on the ACG which have put it into the stratosphere. Stam has gone back to B-G with some fresh d'addario XLs on it and it sounds awesome too - completely different behaviour with the heavier guage. The tone I'm getting from it now seems much more consistent with it's pedigree etc.

I think the only thing that I can conclude here is that some basses are specificially designed or just by luck work with this higher tuning. Some are not, only way to be sure is to check it out in advance.

I'm now wishing I never let the Alembic MK go...........

Thanks,
Andy

[kjb]

String gauge doesn't come into the equation. Matt Garrison uses 100, 80, 60, 40, 28's on his basses. Those who've said to use a heavier gauge strings aren't allowing time for their ears to become accustomed to the sound of the high C string.
High C strings do sound odd compared with E's and A's etc, but you get used to the sound.

When I play a 6 string bass the heaviest C I use is maybe a 30. A tip is don't change to C string when you change strings, just put a 4 string set on. It's cheaper and the high C won't sound so odd.

[andybassdoyle]

This is a really important aspect of it - it's not just the C. The issue I've been having is that the whole range of strings seems to behave differently with the stringing.....

[Cairobill]

I've got a 33 inch adamovic on order. I'm hoping that a shorter scale will allow for a mellower sounding and feeling high c. On my six strings in the past I have found the high c's to be a bit squawky at 34inch scale. I tried a 32inch bass the other day and the high c sounded great, felt great too...

[Chris2112]

Yes, it's something I've used before though never really for any length of time. I tend to prefer/find more use for B-G.

I suppose the main issue that some basses might have is that they just might not sound 'sweet' producing higher notes and frequencies. Think of Carl Thompson, who doesn't like C strings on basses less than 36" scale because he thinks the thin C string sounds rubbish!

Whilst I don't agree, every bass will sound different and some may not project that high C in such a nice fashion. String gauge doesn't come into it for me.

[alyctes]

Guy I know runs a Yamaha BBG5 tuned E - C. Plays well, sounds good.