Fitz666 Posted December 3, 2011 Author Share Posted December 3, 2011 I appreciate all your comments folks. It is a Laney rig and the 410 does have a horn. The main reason I asked is that when I unboxed it and set it up in the garage to have a wee play I opened the 410 first so that went on the bottom. Our guitarist (also an excellent bass player buy a bit OCD) said I had it the wrong ay round, I thought I would ask the experts before allowing him to gloat. Thanks again folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Wazoo Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Wouldn't it be better to try either setup and see (hear) for yourself so you can decide what's best for you? We are all different and it's ok to experiment, what I might like you might not and viceversa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 If you stack our cabs you should put the one with the widest dispersion and/or most treble output and/or lowest mechanical voltage handling on top - so Midget on Compact, S12 on Compact, tweetered cab on non-tweetered cab, etc. The 4x10" on 1x15" arrangement makes no sense - that doesn't stop it sounding good but it doesn't mean it wouldn't sound better and/or work better in difficult acoustics and/or be more reliable and/or be louder if it was designed with more engineering intelligence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 (edited) [quote name='allighatt0r' timestamp='1322946821' post='1457688'] using 410s for bass was born out of borrowed guitar cabs, and 115s being born out of borrowed PA subs back in the day. [/quote]Quite right. 30 years ago and more, when 410s were loaded with guitar drivers and 115s actually had the capability to go lower with more displacement than a 410 the 410/115 made sense. But continuing to do so 'because that's the way we've always done it' is as logical as mating a team of Percherons with a Rover for extra pulling power. Edited December 4, 2011 by Bill Fitzmaurice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 So let's be clear then, 1-either every known manufacturer is unaware of Bills knowledge and needs telling how to do it as he has already stated regarding GK's design department. 2- They have the knowledge and know that it at least could be better the other way and should at least be showing their stacks the other way in some of their brochures etc. 3- Or it's because no one elses 4x10 cabinets have progressed past those from the 70's and actually still sound best the wrong (common) way round? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Wazoo Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 You should all chill, and remember this is a forum of discussions, only give your honest opinion and share your good experience when you have one, don't quote other internet trolls and refrain from answer unless you know what you are talking about, Why oh why, do some of you always end up bickering with one another just as if this was a "who's got the biggest knob" competition lol Chill Winston for f**k sake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 (edited) Im not sure where your coming from GW? Those are the key points of the thread thats all, If there is anything there you disagree with or feel I have miss quoted Im happy to point you to the relevant parts where they were said If its wrong then we should know, Im all for change from these debates too, I have changed to 5 strings and learnt to read after such threads so just because it looks like a slangy match in places I would be the first to try it if I had a 4x10 and 1x15 anymore and report back with my hands up. See many 5 string and anti reading threads where I have made no bones which camp I was in and then ate my words. Edited December 4, 2011 by stingrayPete1977 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackers Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I used to use a 1x15 and a 4x10 in my old rig, and I always stacked the 4x10 on top, but mainly because I liked being able to hear the 4x10 at my ear level. However, since getting my new rig I have started using 2 4x10's and my god what a difference it has made. In my old setup the 1x15 always felt like it lacked power and wasn't outputting anything like what the 4x10 was. Now with 2 4x10's I have an absolutely thunderous sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 The only thing ..IMO. is that a decent 410 will slay a 115 cab in every respect and the only reason why you'd compromise with a 115 is if you had/wanted/needed a smaller physical footprint. If SRPete wants a 115 at the bottom of his stack or advocates it...then it isn't going to sound sh**, it is just that I think 10's do the job better, myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allighatt0r Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1322989293' post='1457886'] So let's be clear then, 1-either every known manufacturer is unaware of Bills knowledge and needs telling how to do it as he has already stated regarding GK's design department. 2- They have the knowledge and know that it at least could be better the other way and should at least be showing their stacks the other way in some of their brochures etc. 3- Or it's because no one elses 4x10 cabinets have progressed past those from the 70's and actually still sound best the wrong (common) way round? [/quote] I think you're pretty much there with these points. Going back to the OP's original question, like Grand Wazoo said, I think you should try both and see what you like best! You never know, you might like it best with both next to each other on the floor....! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 [size=4][quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1322989293' post='1457886'][/size] [size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]....every known manufacturer is unaware of Bills knowledge and needs telling....[/font][/color] [/quote][/size] [size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]That assumes that Bill's view of cab design is the only possible way. TH ewreality is all cab design is a compromise, and while Bill takes a purist stance with regard to the theory other manufacturers make different design decisions. The reality for Bill is that while 410's don't fit his design criteria, in rock and roll they can work. That's why this design is still used.[/font][/color] [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1322989293' post='1457886'][/size] [size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]....no one elses 4x10 cabinets have progressed past those from the 70's....[/font][/color] [/quote][/size] [size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]There are many good 410's being made these days. Just because Bill doesn't like the format doesn't mean the 410 can't sound good.[/font][/color][/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Wazoo Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1322993339' post='1457925'] Im not sure where your coming from GW? Those are the key points of the thread thats all, If there is anything there you disagree with or feel I have miss quoted Im happy to point you to the relevant parts where they were said If its wrong then we should know, Im all for change from these debates too, I have changed to 5 strings and learnt to read after such threads so just because it looks like a slangy match in places I would be the first to try it if I had a 4x10 and 1x15 anymore and report back with my hands up. See many 5 string and anti reading threads where I have made no bones which camp I was in and then ate my words. [/quote] No no sorry, there is nothing that you wrote that I disagree with, and my rant (which is not really a rant but more of an observation) was aimed at the antagonistic level which seems to get more feral, each post and response from all those who have argued their individual points. So don't worry and apologies if you though I was having a go at you. The meaning of my observation was that if anyone has a valid point to make based on true tried and tested experience then it's worth they speak out, but it appears that other are just hell bent on quoting "wives tales" that they have "trolled" out of unfounded internet sources. oh best go, Ship Ahoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1322989293' post='1457886'] So let's be clear then, 1-either every known manufacturer is unaware of Bills knowledge and needs telling how to do it as he has already stated regarding GK's design department. 2- They have the knowledge and know that it at least could be better the other way and should at least be showing their stacks the other way in some of their brochures etc. 3- Or it's because no one elses 4x10 cabinets have progressed past those from the 70's and actually still sound best the wrong (common) way round? [/quote] Could be any of those, or it could be due to the fact that it's been marketed like that for so long that the marketing dept (whom aren't engineers) don't want to take a chance & just stick with what they believe the average bassist will buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 IIRC it was quite popular to stack a Bergantino HT115 on a HT210 because the former had more mids and the latter more bottom (and both had tweeters so you could turn the lower one down). So which company started the 4x10" on 1x15" stack thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1323005516' post='1458129'] ...could be due to the fact that it's been marketed like that for so long that the marketing dept (whom aren't engineers) don't want to take a chance & just stick with what they believe the average bassist will buy. [/quote]That. When I contract with a manufacturer to design a cab for them (because they have no engineering department; most companies do not) the specifications are laid out by the marketeers and bean counters. The number one consideration is how it will look, because looks is what sells cabs. The number two consideration is build cost, as these companies are in business with the intent of making a profit. My job is to then do the best I can within those constraints. Sometimes the restrictions I have to work within make it impossible to create what I'd put my own name on. But contract designs don't carry my name, so I just hold my nose and cash their check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 [quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1323005702' post='1458133'] So which company started the 4x10" on 1x15" stack thing? [/quote] Was it TE perchance? Didn't they claim to have made the first bass-specific 4x10? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 [quote name='Merton' timestamp='1323008436' post='1458191'] Was it TE perchance? Didn't they claim to have made the first bass-specific 4x10? [/quote] I've not checked the web, but I would have thought the config would have been prior to then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I'd say Ampeg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumnote Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 (edited) [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1322919145' post='1457284'] Better tell Flea then Bill........ [/quote] Flea is using acoustic now which means he is using 18" [url="http://www.acousticbassusa.com/products/361.html"]http://www.acousticbassusa.com/products/361.html[/url] Edited December 4, 2011 by bumnote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 18" in a short horn with a horn mid driver. So more in common with BFM designs than a GK 4x10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Although last week on Later he was using GK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1323008854' post='1458204'] I've not checked the web, but I would have thought the config would have been prior to then? [/quote] Good point, I guess they (claim they) did the first bass-specific 4x10 but the format no doubt predates them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1323016603' post='1458308'] Although last week on Later he was using GK. [/quote] No 360s over here to borrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1323016603' post='1458308'] Although last week on Later he was using GK. [/quote] I believe either the Acoustic deal is no more or he's just using GK over here as it's easier to source. Threads on TB about it but I got bored of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I had an old 301 and was delighted I got £70 for it. Big pile of pooh, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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