Skol303 Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 In a nutshell: no, talent isn't inherited. It's not genetic; it's about opportunity and environment. Or to put it another way: it's about nurture, not nature. For example: the 'gifted' young musician with musical parents is the product of growing up in a musical environment. Me? I can keep a tune, whereas neither of my parents have any inclination towards music. My father can fix just about anything, whereas I'm completely ham-fisted when it comes to electronics, mechanics and so on. Other people might have different experiences - but that doesn't mean genetics are a factor, it just means they most likely shared their parents' own interests from an early age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote name='99ster' timestamp='1322180100' post='1447772'] Tim Buckley & Jeff Buckley... Bearing in mind that (by all accounts) Tim had no part in his son's upbringing - maybe a good example of inherited talent? [/quote] [quote] Wikipedia: Buckley was brought up around music. His mother was a classically trained pianist and cellist.[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_buckley#cite_note-17"][18][/url][/sup] His stepfather introduced him to [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Led_Zeppelin"]Led Zeppelin[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_%28band%29"]Queen[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimi_Hendrix"]Jimi Hendrix[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Who"]The Who[/url], and [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Floyd"]Pink Floyd[/url] at an early age.[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_buckley#cite_note-TheArrivalof-18"][19][/url][/sup] Buckley grew up singing around the house and in [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmony"]harmony[/url] with his mother,[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_buckley#cite_note-19"][20][/url][/sup] later noting that all his family sang.[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_buckley#cite_note-20"][21][/url][/sup] Buckley began playing guitar at the age of five after discovering an acoustic guitar in his grandmother's closet.[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbayne Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote name='Low End Bee' timestamp='1322226782' post='1448215'] What have I inherited from my old man? Well I never worry if I lock myself out. We'll leave it at that. [/quote] A tent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbayne Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote]Buckley began playing guitar at the age of five after discovering an acoustic guitar in his grandmother's closet[/quote] Rubbish! everybody knows that it was in his uncles loft!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1322222829' post='1448121'] That inate extra....?? best sumed up for me, like this. Gazza... for example.. Couldn't string two sentences together, pretty much, but was two or three moves ahead of his teammates. Football made sense and was easy for him whereas as others were journeymen by comparison...and generally in a field of sporting excellence as far as most other people who 'played' football were concerned. I mean, we can all kick a ball about..and some work very hard to make the most of their physical attributes..and then there is another level that very very few inhabit. Gazza is still regarded as the best British player of his generation..and there has been no one since, and that was 15 plus years ago...as yet...!! That is what I regard as that inate something extra. [/quote] You still haven't told us what this 'innate extra something' is. I remain unconvinced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I'd say that, barring any unfortunate defects, we're all born pretty much equal. However, our environment and experiences start to influence us from the moment we're born (possibly earlier). We may be born with physical attributes that help us achieve more than others in certain chosen fields, but I'm not sure I'd call that 'talent' as such. To paraphrase Arnold Palmer (I think it was), life is purely a matter of luck, but the harder we work at something the luckier we're likely to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I don't think talent is inherited, but then I'm not an expert so why would you ask me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlloyd Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Vinkhuyzen, AAE, van der Sluis, S, Posthuma, D and Boomsma, DI (2009) The Heritability of Aptitude and Exceptional Talent Across Different Domains in Adolescents and Young Adults. Behavior Genetics 39, 380-392. Abstract: The origin of individual differences in aptitude, defined as a domain-specific skill within the normal ability range, and talent, defined as a domain specific skill of exceptional quality, is under debate. The nature of the variation in aptitudes and exceptional talents across different domains was investigated in a population based twin sample. Self-report data from 1,685 twin pairs (12-24 years) were analyzed for Music, Arts, Writing, Language, Chess, Mathematics, Sports, Memory, and Knowledge. The influence of shared environment was small for both aptitude and talent. Additive and non-additive genetic effects explained the major part of the substantial familial clustering in the aptitude measures with heritability estimates ranging between .32 and .71. Heritability estimates for talents were higher and ranged between .50 and .92. In general, the genetic architecture for aptitude and talent was similar in men and women. Genetic factors contribute to a large extent to variation in aptitude and talent across different domains of intellectual, creative, and sports abilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote name='dlloyd' timestamp='1322237791' post='1448469'] Vinkhuyzen, AAE, van der Sluis, S, Posthuma, D and Boomsma, DI (2009) The Heritability of Aptitude and Exceptional Talent Across Different Domains in Adolescents and Young Adults. Behavior Genetics 39, 380-392. Abstract: The origin of individual differences in aptitude, defined as a domain-specific skill within the normal ability range, and talent, defined as a domain specific skill of exceptional quality, is under debate. The nature of the variation in aptitudes and exceptional talents across different domains was investigated in a population based twin sample. Self-report data from 1,685 twin pairs (12-24 years) were analyzed for Music, Arts, Writing, Language, Chess, Mathematics, Sports, Memory, and Knowledge. The influence of shared environment was small for both aptitude and talent. Additive and non-additive genetic effects explained the major part of the substantial familial clustering in the aptitude measures with heritability estimates ranging between .32 and .71. Heritability estimates for talents were higher and ranged between .50 and .92. In general, the genetic architecture for aptitude and talent was similar in men and women. Genetic factors contribute to a large extent to variation in aptitude and talent across different domains of intellectual, creative, and sports abilities. [/quote] So there we have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I'm sure there are cases where talent (or what you will) is inherited but not necessarily as a rule. My appreciation of music and an aptitude to play it was fostered by:- 1. A loving, supportive family who seemed to sing a lot round the house - to the light programme no less! 2. A primary school with a piano in every classroom. 3. Singing in the church choir 4. Having some good mates at secondary school, and afterwards, who liked their music, were more accomplished than me but were happy to share their knowledge and skills. My dad was a good all-round sportsman; I was rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1322237966' post='1448481'] So there we have it. [/quote] I wonder if a tendency to believe in inherited talent is itself inherited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_derby Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1322239140' post='1448513'] I wonder if a tendency to believe in inherited talent is itself inherited. [/quote] No, the research suggests that belief in inherited talent comes about through diligent hard work and years of practise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote name='Len_derby' timestamp='1322239355' post='1448517'] No, the research suggests that belief in inherited talent comes about through diligent hard work and years of practise. [/quote] Seems like I haven't practiced enough yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote name='risingson' timestamp='1322220868' post='1448072'] I should probably add at this stage that my older sister is a great guitarist and bass player, the the rest of my band are four brothers... and they're my cousins as well. [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I subscribe to the 10,000-hour rule: [url="http://www.squidoo.com/10000-hour-rule"]http://www.squidoo.com/10000-hour-rule[/url] I haven't done my 10,000 hours yet, obviously... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1322239562' post='1448521'] [/quote] Brilliant! I was going to click on the green 'like' arrow for this but can't due to being an admin and therefore buttonless! So have a 'like' on me! Edited November 25, 2011 by peteb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1322242034' post='1448578'] I was going to click on the green 'like' arrow for this but can't due to being an admin and therefore buttonless! So have a 'like' on me! [/quote] Bilbo's post doesn't appear to have a green (or red) button at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverBlackman Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1322242133' post='1448580'] Bilbo's post doesn't appear to have a green (or red) button at all. [/quote] were not allowed to criticise the moderators, were not worthy ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote name='dlloyd' timestamp='1322237791' post='1448469'] Vinkhuyzen, AAE, van der Sluis, S, Posthuma, D and Boomsma, DI (2009) The Heritability of Aptitude and Exceptional Talent Across Different Domains in Adolescents and Young Adults. Behavior Genetics 39, 380-392. [/quote] ^ That's the wonderful thing about scientific research. For every "right" answer, there's an opposite. Like this one: http://geniusblog.davidshenk.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1322239562' post='1448521'] <enter stock photo of the Osmonds/Jackson 5/Kings of Leon here> [/quote] Would it surprise you to learn that you're not the first person to make this comparison It's not nearly as weird as that. We all fight, but equally we all work towards the same goals. We're not really brothers in that sense either, just very good friends. It's also worth noting that whilst we were brought up listening to a lot of different music, we don't come from an inherently 'musical' family, and none of our parents played instruments to any great standard. I am of the belief that had our parents applied themselves to learning a musical instrument then they probably would have been very good musicians themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote name='blackmn90' timestamp='1322243311' post='1448603'] were not allowed to criticise the moderators, were not worthy ..... [/quote] Of course we're not worthy, the question is whether our unworthiness was inherited or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted November 25, 2011 Author Share Posted November 25, 2011 The girl in question regarding the OP has talented parents. She has learned to play two instruments at a good standard in the space of three months, with only minutes of practice per night. My mum is a talented artist. My brother and I are good at art. There has to be a genetic link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverBlackman Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 1. If she's been brought up in a musical background her ears are going to know what sounds good. Therefore even without knowing what the notes are she can probably hear whats right and wrong quicker than people who havnt had the same upbringing. 2. Children learn faster 3. Did your mother have lots of artwork around the house? showed you drawing and painting ect at a young age? If yes that just means you've been shown skills at a younger age than people who havnt had them things. I still am yet to be persuaded to even believe in talent let alone if its genetic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Talent is definitely inherited. I'm useless at playing the bass and so is my Dad, which is probably why he's never even touched a bass. I wished he'd told me before I'd spent good money on my gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Pete Academy' timestamp='1322253020' post='1448748'] The girl in question regarding the OP has talented parents. She has learned to play two instruments at a good standard in the space of three months, with only minutes of practice per night. My mum is a talented artist. My brother and I are good at art. There has to be a genetic link. [/quote] No, there doesn't have to be a so-called genetic link. There are other explanations which are considerably more likely. Edited November 25, 2011 by EssentialTension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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