Gear vs Playing

[4000]

[quote name='silddx' post='1371681' date='Sep 13 2011, 12:47 PM']People appear to talk about shoes a LOT more than they do about walking. So what?[/quote]

Game, set and match methinks....

[JakeBrownBass]

[quote name='dc2009' post='1371673' date='Sep 13 2011, 12:39 PM']I don't feel I'm missing out not being aware of much of what these two did, just as plenty of people don't feel they're missing out by not being aware of what At The Gates did.[/quote]

I feel your totally missing the point.
Motown was a company that was churning out song after song for the general public, the broke down barriers between races, making black music desirable to white people. They were a hit making machine.
The whole motown thing was more than just the songs and changed culture for good.

At The Gates are a Sweedish death metal band that have 4 studio albums and no hit songs. People aren't missing out because there is nothing to miss out on.

Fair enough its all your opinion and your entitled to have it, but it has no grounds to stand on as an argument front.



[quote name='JTUK' post='1371682' date='Sep 13 2011, 12:48 PM']ok.... but on a session or something..someone says this needs a stax/motown type feel...?[/quote]

Not every bass player wants to be a session player.....some do it just to enjoy playing the music they enjoy.

Edited September 13, 2011 by J.R.Bass

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='dc2009' post='1371675' date='Sep 13 2011, 12:41 PM']I definitely agree with the rose-tinted thing, and did try to allude to it in an earlier post. Not just about motown, but with Elvis or anything like that. I swear a death does oodles for how people remember music in later years, Elvis, The Beatles etc.[/quote]

Oh, c'mon...

The [b]fact[/b] is that Elvis and The Beatles changed music forever. They are absolutely massively important artists and would be regardless of whether or not Mark Chapman had shot Ringo instead of Lennon, or if Elvis was still alive and performing in his own tribute act in Vegas.

Honestly, with your statements that Motown "hasn't stood the test of time", that you couldn't tell the difference between Aretha Franklin and Dusty Springfield, and now that The Beatles and Elvis are only looked on fondly because of deaths you just come across like you're trolling. No wonder you were getting some comments that breached "forum ettiquete"...

[dc2009]

[quote name='J.R.Bass' post='1371701' date='Sep 13 2011, 12:57 PM']I feel your totally missing the point.
Motown was a company that was churning out song after song for the general public, the broke down barriers between races, making black music desirable to white people. They were a hit making machine.
The whole motown thing was more than just the songs and changed culture for good.

At The Gates are a Sweedish death metal band that have 4 studio albums and no hit songs. People aren't missing out because there is nothing to miss out on.

Fair enough its all your opinion and your entitled to have it, but it has no grounds to stand on as an argument front.[/quote]

Well that was disrespectful. I could just as rightly say that people aren't missing out on motown because there is nothing to miss out on, but I wouldn't say that because it would have totally disrespected the opinions of plenty of people in here. Don't be so effing narrow-minded in your argument, and perhaps people will take more store by what you say.

"No hit songs" is dubious, try telling that to the hundreds of thousands of people that bought tickets to see them upon reforming. And how is there then 'nothing to miss out on' from "At The Gates are a Sweedish death metal band that have 4 studio albums" - nothing, you are just saying it because you dislike the genre, without actually considering what they might have done. I found that an incredibly ignorant and self-centred post.

Plenty more people didn't listen to motown and still accepted black culture. So it really wasn't the be all and end all in that respect. Enjoying someone's culture doesn't mean you accept them as a race either.

[dc2009]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' post='1371720' date='Sep 13 2011, 01:17 PM']Oh, c'mon...

The [b]fact[/b] is that Elvis and The Beatles changed music forever. They are absolutely massively important artists and would be regardless of whether or not Mark Chapman had shot Ringo instead of Lennon, or if Elvis was still alive and performing in his own tribute act in Vegas.

Honestly, with your statements that Motown "hasn't stood the test of time", that you couldn't tell the difference between Aretha Franklin and Dusty Springfield, and now that The Beatles and Elvis are only looked on fondly because of deaths you just come across like you're trolling. No wonder you were getting some comments that breached "forum ettiquete"...[/quote]

You clearly haven't read my posts properly, and have drawn incorrect conclusions from what I've said.

I tried to justify what I said about standing the test of time, it wasn't just an insult.

I said I couldn't tell the difference if I heard a song of each of theirs blind, because oddly enough, I've never listened to their music of my own accord before. Is that a crime?

I did not say that they are [b]only[/b] looked on fondly because of their deaths. I did not say that. So don't put words in my mouth. I'm not at all trolling. Of course these acts were immensely popular before they died, MJ is another case in point, but their deaths have done wonders for their estates, that is a fact. It is a fact that Elvis' estate has earned more than he ever did in his lifetime. It is a fact that a collection of MJ's records reached number one in the album charts after his death.

Calling someone else's opinion bollocks is never necessary, so when you say no wonder I was getting such comments, clearly you are someone who thinks it is acceptable to do so, which I find downright rude. If you actually think that someone's opinion is bollocks and have decent, factual evidence to back up your view, why not present your case so they can read it. This is a [b]discussion[/b] forum after all.

Edited September 13, 2011 by dc2009

[Earbrass]

[quote name='J.R.Bass' post='1371701' date='Sep 13 2011, 12:57 PM']Motown was a company that was churning out song after song for the general public[/quote]

Just like Stock/Aitken/Waterman in the 80's or Simon Cowell today. I very much doubt whether it will be much listened to once the generation that grew up with it have passed on. How many people listen to Bing Crosby now? How many will in another twenty years time?

[dc2009]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1371682' date='Sep 13 2011, 12:48 PM']ok.... but on a session or something..someone says this needs a stax/motown type feel...?[/quote]

Honestly, I never envisage myself being in that scenario.

[JakeBrownBass]

[quote name='Earbrass' post='1371732' date='Sep 13 2011, 01:26 PM']Just like Stock/Aitken/Waterman in the 80's or Simon Cowell today. I very much doubt whether it will be much listened to once the generation that grew up with it have passed on. How many people listen to Bing Crosby now? How many will in another twenty years time?[/quote]

That wasn't my argument.

[dc2009]

[quote name='J.R.Bass' post='1371736' date='Sep 13 2011, 01:27 PM']That wasn't my argument.[/quote]

But he has a point, nonetheless.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Earbrass' post='1371732' date='Sep 13 2011, 01:26 PM']Just like Stock/Aitken/Waterman in the 80's or Simon Cowell today. I very much doubt whether it will be much listened to once the generation that grew up with it have passed on. How many people listen to Bing Crosby now? How many will in another twenty years time?[/quote]
Maybe so, but Motown has a massive influence on a lot of important and up-and-coming artists of today. More so that SAW, I'd say.

FWIW, I'm not a big Motown fan.

[JakeBrownBass]

[quote name='dc2009' post='1371721' date='Sep 13 2011, 01:18 PM']Well that was disrespectful. I could just as rightly say that people aren't missing out on motown because there is nothing to miss out on, but I wouldn't say that because it would have totally disrespected the opinions of plenty of people in here. Don't be so effing narrow-minded in your argument, and perhaps people will take more store by what you say.[/quote]

There was no disrespect meant in the post, it was merely just pointing out that what you were trying to argue in the post i quoted had no substance to it and was merely just an opinion.

[JakeBrownBass]

[quote name='dc2009' post='1371738' date='Sep 13 2011, 01:28 PM']But he has a point, nonetheless.[/quote]

Ok, well the sound of the 80's is making a comeback on a lot of big artist records atm. So they've influenced some people.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='dc2009' post='1371729' date='Sep 13 2011, 01:24 PM']You clearly haven't read my posts properly, and have drawn incorrect conclusions from what I've said.[/quote]

[quote]Calling someone else's opinion bollocks is never necessary, so when you say no wonder I was getting such comments, clearly you are someone who thinks it is acceptable to do so, which I find downright rude. If you actually think that someone's opinion is bollocks and have decent, factual evidence to back up your view, why not present your case so they can read it. This is a [b]discussion[/b] forum after all.[/quote]

Oh, the irony.

I never said your opinion was bollocks. I just pointed out why I thought it was wrong.

I'm off now, I can't be arsed [b]discussing[/b] this if you're just going to get upset when people disagree with you

[dc2009]

[quote name='J.R.Bass' post='1371741' date='Sep 13 2011, 01:31 PM']Ok, well the sound of the 80's is making a comeback on a lot of big artist records atm. So they've influenced some people.[/quote]

The sound of At the Gates has been influencing most major metal bands for the past fifteen years or so, and is continuing to do so. So they've influenced some people too.

Or have I missed the point again?

[dc2009]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' post='1371743' date='Sep 13 2011, 01:32 PM']Oh, the irony.

I never said your opinion was bollocks. I just pointed out why I thought it was wrong.

I'm off now, I can't be arsed [b]discussing[/b] this if you're just going to get upset when people disagree with you [/quote]

I notice you didn't copy the bit of my quote that pointed out directly where you were wrong and had put words in my mouth. How telling.

I didn't say you said my opinion was bollocks, it was chris_b IIRC (apologies if it wasn't), but you directly referenced the 'forum etiquette' term I used in response to it, which is why I responded and pointed out why I thought it was out of line.

Oh, the irony.

[derrenleepoole]

This thread summed up:

[skankdelvar]

As founder and leader of a clandestine worldwide paramilitary youth movement numbering literally in the hundreds of thousands, I'm the person best qualified here to establish the validity of the 'Young People Like / Don't like Motown' proposition.

A recent study showed that 98% of my loyal membership 'liked' Motown, and 83% considered it a 'significant influence on contemporary music'. And a casual scan of our newsletter reveals that a members' Motown covers band was present at every field exercise in the training year 2010-2011.

By contrast, less than 1% had been aware of At The Gates before they were asked the question and only 2 out of our study's 392,304 respondents were able to correctly identify At The Gates when played a compilation tape of melodic death metal bands.

I think the facts speak for themselves.

[dc2009]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='1371775' date='Sep 13 2011, 01:48 PM']As founder and leader of a clandestine worldwide paramilitary youth movement numbering literally in the hundreds of thousands, I'm the person best qualified here to establish the validity of the 'Young People Like / Don't like Motown' proposition.

A recent study showed that 98% of my loyal membership 'liked' Motown, and 83% considered it a 'significant influence on contemporary music'. And a casual scan of our newsletter reveals that a members' Motown covers band was present at every field exercise in the training year 2010-2011.

By contrast, less than 1% had been aware of At The Gates before they were asked the question and only 2 out of our study's 392,304 respondents were able to correctly identify At The Gates when played a compilation tape of melodic death metal bands.

I think the facts speak for themselves.[/quote]

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='dc2009' post='1371752' date='Sep 13 2011, 01:37 PM']I notice you didn't copy the bit of my quote that pointed out directly where you were wrong and had put words in my mouth. How telling.

I didn't say you said my opinion was bollocks, it was chris_b IIRC (apologies if it wasn't), but you directly referenced the 'forum etiquette' term I used in response to it, which is why I responded and pointed out why I thought it was out of line.

Oh, the irony.[/quote]

Oh, go on then, just for you:

[quote]You clearly haven't read my posts properly, and have drawn incorrect conclusions from what I've said.

I tried to justify what I said about standing the test of time, it wasn't just an insult.[/quote]

Yes, you did try to justify it. But I didn't really think your justification held much water.


[quote]I said I couldn't tell the difference if I heard a song of each of theirs blind, because oddly enough, I've never listened to their music of my own accord before. Is that a crime?[/quote]

I don't own any At The Gates. Nor do I own any Justin Bieber album tracks. But I'm pretty sure I could tell the difference.

[quote]I did not say that they are only looked on fondly because of their deaths. I did not say that. So don't put words in my mouth. I'm not at all trolling. Of course these acts were immensely popular before they died, MJ is another case in point, but their deaths have done wonders for their estates, that is a fact. It is a fact that Elvis' estate has earned more than he ever did in his lifetime. It is a fact that a collection of MJ's records reached number one in the album charts after his death.[/quote]

I didn't say you were trolling. I said you came across as if you could be. There's a difference. Its also a fact that Mozart and Beethoven are massively more popular now than they were when they were alive. I don't really get your point. Nearly everyone gets a surge in popularity when they die. Thats just the way it is.

[quote]Calling someone else's opinion bollocks is never necessary, so when you say no wonder I was getting such comments, [b]clearly you are someone who thinks it is acceptable to do so[/b], which I find downright rude. If you actually think that someone's opinion is bollocks and have decent, factual evidence to back up your view, why not present your case so they can read it. This is a discussion forum after all.[/quote]

I did not think that. Please do not put thoughts in my head. I find [i]that[/i] downright rude.

"The mark of an educated mind is being able to entertain a thought without accepting it". Understanding the reason for something happening is not the same as agreeing with what happened.

[Musicman20]

What happened to this thread?!

I for one quite like Motown, but I also am quite fond of Metallica 'Master of Puppets' and a few of Jessis J's tracks. Nowt like variety.

Pop has turned into a mess over the past decade or more, but I think acts like Gaga and Jessie J are a good sign that there is talent there.

For example, have you heard Jessie's voice? Oh my...fantastic. Gaga's piano skills? Again, fantastic.

Any of these could be played with any bass, but why not play it with an expensive one if you can afford it?!

[dc2009]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' post='1371787' date='Sep 13 2011, 01:53 PM']Oh, go on then, just for you:[/quote]
Thansks

[quote name='uncle psychosis' post='1371787' date='Sep 13 2011, 01:53 PM']Yes, you did try to justify it. But I didn't really think your justification held much water.[/quote]
Fair enough

[quote name='uncle psychosis' post='1371787' date='Sep 13 2011, 01:53 PM']I don't own any At The Gates. Nor do I own any Justin Bieber album tracks. But I'm pretty sure I could tell the difference.[/quote]
Compare apples with apples and then it might be fair. The two you just selected are many years and many genres apart, and there are not many people out there that are fans of both.

[quote name='uncle psychosis' post='1371787' date='Sep 13 2011, 01:53 PM']I didn't say you were trolling. I said you came across as if you could be. There's a difference. Its also a fact that Mozart and Beethoven are massively more popular now than they were when they were alive. I don't really get your point. Nearly everyone gets a surge in popularity when they die. Thats just the way it is.[/quote]
I know that#s the way it is, isn#t that what I said question mark / stupid broken keyboard

[quote name='uncle psychosis' post='1371787' date='Sep 13 2011, 01:53 PM']I did not think that. Please do not put thoughts in my head. I find [i]that[/i] downright rude.

"The mark of an educated mind is being able to entertain a thought without accepting it". Understanding the reason for something happening is not the same as agreeing with what happened.[/quote]

Your post implied, using the phrase #no wonder# that you did think that. I apologise if I misconstrued what you meant.

[risingson]

DC, I think it's a little unfair that you're catching so much flak for holding an opinion that is just [u]your[/u] opinion. But I'm 22 years old and have never felt like I could listen to just one type of music, so I listen to everything really, and I do mean everything. I try and keep an open mind to all kinds of music, old and new, as I think that whilst I'll never be a really big Elvis fan for example, there's no denying the fact that he left an indelible mark on popular music. I understand not everyone is like this, but I would always push for a person to keep an open mind! That's all

It's kind of funny how we ended up talking about this from a topic that is seemingly unrelated but actually, these are the times I really enjoy the forum. Talking about music IMO is much, much more interesting than talking about which bass sounds better or why you shouldn't stack a 4x10 on a 15" cab etc.

Edited September 13, 2011 by risingson

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1371792' date='Sep 13 2011, 01:56 PM']What happened to this thread?!

[b]I for one quite like Motown, but I also am quite fond of Metallica 'Master of Puppets' and a few of Jessis J's tracks. Nowt like variety.[/b]

Pop has turned into a mess over the past decade or more, but I think acts like Gaga and Jessie J are a good sign that there is talent there.

For example, have you heard Jessie's voice? Oh my...fantastic. Gaga's piano skills? Again, fantastic.

Any of these could be played with any bass, but why not play it with an expensive one if you can afford it?![/quote]

Me too.

I'd actually argue that pop music has always been a mess---look back at the charts for any given era and you'll find there's a lot of dross thats been forgotten. I actually agree with dc2009s point about "rose tinting"---just not quite in the way he said it. I think the rose-tinting of the past is more that the crap stuff gets forgotten rather than the good stuff getting "better".

Back to the topic---theres no substitute for practice, technique, and musicallity. A fancy bass isn't going to play a great walking bass line for you. Give any of the great players a bass thats set up correctly and they'll still be able to make some great music. Sure, nice gear can make everything more fun but anyone who thinks buying a new amp is what they need to become a good *musician* is fooling themselves. It might help, but the things you really need to become great can't be bought in shops!

[dc2009]

[quote name='risingson' post='1371804' date='Sep 13 2011, 02:04 PM']DC, I think it's a little unfair that you're catching so much flak for holding an opinion that is just [u]your[/u] opinion. But I'm 22 years old and have never felt like I could listen to just one type of music, so I listen to everything really, and I do mean everything. I try and keep an open mind to all kinds of music, old and new, as I think that whilst I'll never be a really big Elvis fan for example, there's no denying the fact that he left an indelible mark on popular music. I understand not everyone is like this, but I would always push for a person to keep an open mind! That's all

It's kind of funny how we ended up talking about this from a topic that is seemingly unrelated but actually, these are the times I really enjoy the forum. Talking about music IMO is much, much more interesting than talking about which bass sounds better or why you shouldn't stack a 4x10 on a 15" cab etc.[/quote]

Thanks. Though I#ve not fought my corner too brilliantly!

I do listen to lots of genres, but make no effort to listen to everything, as there#s plenty I just don#t enjoy. I quite like some Elvis, but have never been into my soul or motown

I agree. I do like a good discussion verging on argument. And I often end up hearing new music as a result!

[BigRedX]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='1371739' date='Sep 13 2011, 01:29 PM']Maybe so, but Motown has a massive influence on a lot of important and up-and-coming artists of today. More so that SAW, I'd say.[/quote]
Because the current fashions are tending to regurgitate early to mid 70s and not mid to late 80s.