Band Lighting

[dmccombe7]

I'm looking at putting together some stage lighting for a classic rock band. (5 piece - Vox, guitar, bass, keys, drums)
I did this many moons ago before the dawn of modern electronics with PAR56 / 64's etc and 3 phase supplies.
Didn't quite fancy all the hassle that goes with 440V this time around.
I've seen a lot of LED style lighting kit on market.

Anyone used it with their own bands and how does it compare.

Any recommendations on what / who's is best on market.

Haven't set a budget for this as yet but desk and main lighting with stands etc I would expect 2nd hand £500 and then build on that over few mths.

Any strong thoughts, suggestions or ideas appreciated.

Cheers
Dave

[pete.young]

[quote name='dmccombe7' post='1353748' date='Aug 27 2011, 05:43 PM']I've seen a lot of LED style lighting kit on market.

Anyone used it with their own bands and how does it compare.[/quote]

Between us we have 2 or 3 sets of LED lights, KAM Parbar or Equinox. All have DMX so you can control the whole lot from one laptop or one set of footswitches. They weigh less than half of the equivalent PAR sets, don't use anything like the same amount of power so they don't overheat the band and can be dismantled as soon as they are switched off. Can't see any drawbacks other than the price.

[JTUK]

We use a cheap LED bundle from Thomanns, just a bank of 4 and they do pretty well.
The set up is quickly as the 4 spots are pre-rigged, the carry light and the effect good.

You will run out of light on a 16x30 stage..or rather spread...so you would need to double-up there...but they are also cheap enough.
The only problem I have had is the the stand isn't the best and I have striped the thread on a bolt..which I am sure I can fix easily enough.

Outdoors, you will wish for PAR ( for the heat, ) but then the power draw can be an issue so apart from that, LEDS are fine, IMO...and pretty cheap as well.

[warwickhunt]

icolors

If you are talking pub/club gigs we've yet to find anything that comes close and yet weighs so little (also DMX controlled so just set on 'sound to light' and forget about it).

[gazhowe]

Apart from some high end (expensive) ones I've yet to see a LED par can that can match the defined beam you get from a traditional par 64 can. Having said that, the advantages of LED's far outweigh those of traditional bulbs IMO (we use both in my pub covers band).

The 3W tri-colour LED's seem to be the best that are widely available at the moment and I think these will cost more that the equivalent 8 x par 64 plus stands and basic controller set up (ive seen this for £500-£600 new). Having said that I would still go for LED's as it would probably be easier to add to and control.

[Geddys nose]

iColours are one of the most cost effective and convenient for light use but with 2 lights drawing 2000w and generating heat on a already small stage I went to 2 sets of these-

[url="http://www.djkit.com/equinox/equinox-mega-bar-system.html"]http://www.djkit.com/equinox/equinox-mega-bar-system.html[/url]

230w and they don't trip your normally limited power points and generate no heat,Really really impressed. You can also set them up in 3 mins!

[ezbass]

We started using a cheap set and they work fine and we don't cook on stage. TBH most of the stages we play are quite small so the LEDs are quite close to (pretty much why we used to cook). The only down side can be if you have them flashing at all (a standard option) they can send members of your band slightly scatty. Our guitar player had a car crash after we played with them the first time, he just blacked out after feeeling 'odd' after the set and I have to say I don't like them flashing at me either

[crez5150]

Depending on your budgets.... the Kam offerings are fairly decent these days. The Parbar sets offer good value for money. we have a variety of different lighting set-ups but one I will mention if you do those sorts of gigs where you need stage wash, Backlight or just feature lighting (mainly in country houses, estates or museums) have a look at these. They are wireless and IP rated so safe for outdoor use also. We have 6 units that we use for such events and are highly recommended.

[url="http://www.gds.uk.com/gds-products/liteware"]GDS Lighting [/url]

[deepbass5]

I went all LED about 5 years ago and never looked back. Check out LEDJ not too expensive but good control and coverage.
Best advantage is the power needed for gigs, we did use over 3 kW of traditional Cans which makes you have to sort and split power feeds so not to blow fuses. Now I know as a band we are not affected by Volt drop on our extension leads, and that affects the Bass most of all. The only down side is you can’t keep warm under them on cold nights.
Check them out in your local DJ shop before buying.

I have two six gang LED t bar type effects at the back of the band facing the audience linked and set on STL and six Par 56 LED cans on the floor set on standalone slow change. Seems plenty for our four pieces.

[dmccombe7]

Thanks for feedback.
Looks like the LED's will do pretty much what i was hoping for.

Intention is to control from sounddesk and need to look at control desks with ability for later add-ons.

I need a desk that will control lights and smoke machines etc

I've seen some pretty good looking / spec'd Chauvet desks.
Can't say I've heard of them.
KAM i've heard off and will give that a more serious look at today.

Any thoughts on these would also be much appreciated.

Do any of the mfr's offer a software download that lets you experiment before buying ie reproduced stage and desk which you can add your choice of lighting and see how the look.
Just a thought.

All offers of advice appreciated.

Cheers
Dave

[deepbass5]

watch out for the earlier KAM T bar sets, they may still be available but the LED's were not bright enough. I know they are an ideal compact set up with foot switch and cheaper now. I wanted some until i saw how bright they were. That said i have seen some recently that looked a lot brighter and think they may have changed the type of LED installed. Just dont get caught buying blind on the net. check them out in a store.

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='deepbass5' post='1354632' date='Aug 28 2011, 06:44 PM']watch out for the earlier KAM T bar sets, they may still be available but the LED's were not bright enough. I know they are an ideal compact set up with foot switch and cheaper now. I wanted some until i saw how bright they were. That said i have seen some recently that looked a lot brighter and think they may have changed the type of LED installed. Just dont get caught buying blind on the net. check them out in a store.[/quote]

Thanks deepbass5
I'm having trouble finding a local store that sells this kind of gear.
In an ideal world a shop doing demo's would be great who could show me how a lot of this newer kit operates.
I'm 20yrs away from running light rigs and the technology has changed quite a bit.

Still I'm getting some sound advice from BC as always.

Much appreciate the caution on earlier KAMS

Cheers
Dave

[Dad3353]

Good evening,Dave...

I used for a number of years a laptop (IBM T22...) and a USB-DMX interface ('Sunlite'...) for lights control. Look it up on the web, it could be an option over traditional lighting desks. The software has built-in 3D stage simulation to try out configurations and effects.
I'm no longer doing lights on a regular basis, but the same system is currently being used by my local PA/lights team, and works very well.
Hope this helps...

[whizzzy]

Hi Dave,

I would also second the opinion that a laptop + software is the way to go. It's compact and reliable plus the bonus that scenes and sequences can be pre-programmed. If you are planning to have your sound guy run the lighting as well it means that he isn't continually operating the lights and being distracted from controlling the sound.

There are a number of software solutions on the market but this has not long come out which our lighting engineer uses - [url="http://www.tracelighting.com/"]Trace Lighting[/url] They do a cost-down version which is the Lime Light Verse which will do everything you want plus more. You can also download a demo version of the software from the site which will give you a good feel for its interface before parting with any cash.

Regarding the use of LED lighting, as several other replies in this thread have indicated it is very much horses for courses. For pub gigs and the like then two bars of 4 LED par cans should suffice, but get the 1W or better still 3W versions. LEDs 'do' some colours very well. You'll get a wonderful red or green wash and a reasonable blue coverage but then any attempt at further colour mixing tends to end up in a whitish, greyish, pinkish yellowish type of wash without any real colour definition or depth and this is where conventional PAR56 / 64 cans with gels win hands down. If your work is larger venues with a decent size stage then personally I wouldn't use LEDs in this application and stick with conventionals.

The debate about LEDs vs conventionals has been ongoing for years and if you want to catch up on some of it go over to the [url="http://www.blue-room.org.uk/"]Blue Room forum[/url] - there's lots of good advice about lighting on there too.

Another solution that we use quite frequently for smaller venues is a couple of moving heads, something like Coemar 250LX wash or Martin MAC300. These are quite bright on smaller stages and use CMY (cyan, magenta, yellow) filters for colour mixing which means that you can produce almost any colour you want with sufficient depth and intensity. They can be tilted, panned, dimmed and colour changed all by DMX control and so you've got full flexibility. With a bit of patience and diligent shopping you should be able to pick up a pair second hand for about £500 but beware that moving heads do require maintenance and are not exactly lightweight but they're great fun to use and extremely versatile. If you do decide to go that route make sure you choose washes rather than spots though as those will not give you sufficient beam width.

[dmccombe7]

I've looked at the laptop route however that would mean buying a laptop which i guess balances out against not buying a desk controller.

I'm not a huge fan of PC's / laptops running any kit but appreciate it is the current way of doing things.
I guess i find them a bit too unreliable and as I'm not great with programming PC's i would probably worry more about that than anything else.

I have a lighting engineer (my better half) who has past experience with desks from few yrs back when she did lighting for my previous bands. She is therefore dedicated to lights rather than sound engineer doing both.

She prefers having a desk rather than laptop version whereby she has more manual control for "artistic expression" moments.

I'll certainly get a better look at the Blue Room link which I've bookmarked so much appreciated.

I've got lots to look at now and a better feel for where I'm going all thanks to you guys.

Cheers for that
Dave

[skidder652003]

+1 for the equinox system. £400 new for 2 x 4 bar lights, DMX foot controller, stands, cables and carry case. We use it for all our pub gigs and it works a treat. Avoid the sound to light options (school disco), but the slow fade washes look good.
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KS-BtFA_CY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KS-BtFA_CY[/url]

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='skidder652003' post='1355658' date='Aug 29 2011, 08:33 PM']+1 for the equinox system. £400 new for 2 x 4 bar lights, DMX foot controller, stands, cables and carry case. We use it for all our pub gigs and it works a treat. Avoid the sound to light options (school disco), but the slow fade washes look good.
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KS-BtFA_CY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KS-BtFA_CY[/url][/quote]

Equinox set seems to get quite high praise. Can they be controlled from front desk without issue.

I guess the answer will be yes with an extended lead.

Will check the youtube link at home tonight. Works PC doesn't allow access to Youtube I'm afraid.

Thanks

Dave

[JTUK]

We use this...

[url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/stairville_stage_tri_led_bundle_complete.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/gb/stairville_stage_...le_complete.htm[/url]

Pretty good and comfortably probably fill a 3x5m stage.

We don't do anything special and just use the presets as the manual isn't that good....

[xzodar]

+2 for the Equinox setup.

£400 for a complete system with stands. Has seen much use with my pub band, usually setup behind the band on a slow colour fade facing the audience and also supporting a banner with the band name and website details and supplemented by some LED footlights out front running STL.

Works well and easy to set up and control etc.

Purchased from these guys [url="http://www.djanddiscostuff.com/"]Phase One[/url] by mail order but who I believe now have bigger premesis with a demo room for all of the lighting products that they stock.

Highly recommended.

Cheers

Pete