Im having a moan

[JTUK]

I just say politely no, not the price you were looking for, but of course, people might think desperation and play accordingly.

I'd get upset and turned off the buyer if the offer was insulting..but can't say I've had one, that I can recall.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='bassman7755' post='1322287' date='Jul 31 2011, 05:21 PM']A offer is only "low" if someone else if someone else puts in a higher one. If I offer you for £1000 for your supposed £2000 bass and thats the only offer you get after weeks of advertising it that is what its worth.

Also offers give you options - there might circumstances where someone would be glad of selling quickly at well below what they might hold out for if time wasn't an issue.

I really have no clue as why someone would be "annoyed" or "insulted" by a low offer provided the offerer is seriously interested and has the readies to seal the deal quickly.[/quote]

It doesn't annoy me I just politely say no thank you, I was just pointing out that not everyone knows what something is worth with so many various versions of the same bass out there so trade offers can appear to fall short of its value but the tone of your post demonstrates it better than I did, Thanks (2x £800 isn't £2000 either).

Edited July 31, 2011 by stingrayPete1977

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='bassman7755' post='1322287' date='Jul 31 2011, 05:21 PM']....If I offer you for £1000 for your supposed £2000 bass and thats the only offer you get after weeks of advertising it that is what its worth....[/quote]
Er... it so isn't.

If I don't accept your offer it's still worth £2000... to me. If you bought it for a £1000 then that's closer to what your on about... but it's still only what it sold for, as you may well sell it on for a profit (or a loss). It's worth can only be measured by comparing to others like it and drawing a considered evaluation.

[stingrayPete1977]

I wish I could get another one for a grand Rich but I'm pretty sure it would be nearer the 'supposed' amount, Maybe I should email nicks guitars and tell him to sell me anything he has had for sale for a year or more?

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1322538' date='Jul 31 2011, 09:51 PM']I wish I could get another one for a grand Rich but I'm pretty sure it would be nearer the 'supposed' amount, Maybe I should email nicks guitars and tell him to sell me anything he has had for sale for a year or more?[/quote]
Dude, you've lost me.

[stingrayPete1977]

Well apparently anything he hasnt sold must be worth less so he can sell it all to me cheap

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1322561' date='Jul 31 2011, 10:13 PM']Well apparently anything he hasnt sold must be worth less so he can sell it all to me cheap [/quote]
Ah I've got ya now.

I might give the Louvre a bell. I doubt if anyone's made any offers on the Mona Lisa this week... I'll offer them 50p.

[Blademan_98]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1322598' date='Jul 31 2011, 10:46 PM']I might give the Louvre a bell. I doubt if anyone's made any offers on the Mona Lisa this week... I'll offer them 50p. [/quote]

But I don't think it's all original as I am sure the frame is off an 1860 painting by Monet.......

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='Blademan_98' post='1322603' date='Jul 31 2011, 10:49 PM']But I don't think it's all original as I am sure the frame is off an 1860 painting by Monet....... [/quote]
Your kidding.
Bloody French supposed "museums", all the bloody same.

[Blademan_98]

But my uncle had one of them in his loft (but I don't really know anything about them).

He died, so I am clearing out his stuff........

He also had a prototype P bass from 1943 that his room mate (L Fender esq) left him.

Don't know if you are interested but it must be worth £1,000,000 (not that I know anything about Basses either)

[Shockwave]

This is an interesting subject to me. I am a pretty weak willed person naturally. I really dont like haggling and I hate saying no. I think haggling preys on people who are "kind" or timid like myself. Indeed in my early Basschat days when people visited my house I got pressured to lower the price by well respected members after they noticed my youth and shyness.

My solution? Make sure in the advert that I put something along the lines of "Firm, absoloutely no haggling." I have sold everything recently with that in the message. If its a trade or part ex that I would allow, I will put very specific instructions as to what I want and the value I expect to be given to my bass. I generally take payment up front, even if its collection only. If people still haggle, then recently I have just asked them to leave as I dont like being hassled into allowing a price I will immediately regret.

Its the "Last moment" haggle which really depresses me. When I buy something and a price if agreed, then that is the price and it shouldnt change. Last minute pressure in a deal with regards to haggling annoys and upsets me (Unless there is a valid problem).

As an example. I recently sold a P5 Deluxe to someone on Basschat recently. He popped to Bristol. However before I went out, I noticed the bass had some extra damage I never noticed before. I felt bad considering the guy was already on his way. When I met up with him, I asked him how much his ticket cost and I refunded it to him (£50 before he even saw the bass and explained why. He came away happy, I didnt have to do it, he probably would have taken it away anyway. But rather he would go away happy and me with less guilt. Was it the morally right thing to do? Absoloutely. I just hope people would respond in kind.

Besides very rarely will I haggle a lower price in the first place, if I think it is priced correctly then all fine and dandy. If its priced somewhat high then I will know that the seller will eventually wise up and either reduce it, or keep hold of it. Everyone should be happy in a deal.

When i say "FIRM" in an advert, I am not saying the price will not go down at anytime. I mean that I am FIRM in dictating the price. Only I will dictate the price, when I am happy to accept less, I will approach you or amend my advert.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Shockwave' post='1322668' date='Aug 1 2011, 12:18 AM']I really dont like haggling and I hate saying no.[/quote]
You make a very, very good point. And the refund thing you mention does you enormous credit.

Good idea on the 'firm' pricing strategy. Definitely takes some of the heat out. Some people adopt an ebullient approach to transactions which others can find grating or intimidating. TBH, I fall into the loud, jolly, "fancy a deal and how's-yer-father" school and often forget that not everybody's the same.

The lowball offer > offence thing I kind of get, though. Lobbing in a cheeky one at - say - 50% of the stated price is either going to put someone's back up or convince even the most of sanguine of sellers that you're a bit of a chump and therefore unreliable. The most useful advice I was given applies both to sellers and buyers:

[quote]"Open realistically and move slowly."[/quote]

Edited August 1, 2011 by skankdelvar

[KingBollock]

It never hurts to ask. As long as you don't ask something stupid...

I think the best strategy is to put a bit on top of the price you really want. That way, if you drop down to the price you actually want, the buyer feels good because he thinks he's got a bargain, and you feel good because you got the price you wanted.

If a price has been agreed then I think it's rude to try haggling again just because you feel that you'd have a better chance of taking advantage of someone in person. If you want to haggle in person wait until you meet before you start, don't agree a price and then go back on it.

I do feel that low-balling is a strategy aimed at taking advantage of gullible people or those that aren't all there. And that ain't nice.

[Shockwave]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='1322706' date='Aug 1 2011, 02:02 AM']TBH, I fall into the loud, jolly, "fancy a deal and how's-yer-father" school and often forget that not everybody's the same.[/quote]

See if you were annoying/aggressive as hell about the deal, its easier to say no. If it's a jovial approach it would be harder to say no as I would look like the bad guy.

[chaypup]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='1322706' date='Aug 1 2011, 02:02 AM']I fall into the loud, jolly, "fancy a deal and how's-yer-father" school and often forget that not everybody's the same.[/quote]

You offer sex as part of the deal? Does that work?

Edited August 1, 2011 by chaypup

[Ross]

Realistically you just don't like haggling because you're bad at it. And you're within your rights to say "no haggling" it just reduces your potential customers.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Shockwave' post='1322668' date='Aug 1 2011, 12:18 AM']This is an interesting subject to me. I am a pretty weak willed person naturally. I really dont like haggling and I hate saying no. I think haggling preys on people who are "kind" or timid like myself. Indeed in my early Basschat days when people visited my house I got pressured to lower the price by well respected members after they noticed my youth and shyness.

...

Its the "Last moment" haggle which really depresses me. When I buy something and a price if agreed, then that is the price and it shouldnt change. Last minute pressure in a deal with regards to haggling annoys and upsets me (Unless there is a valid problem).[/quote]

Such a lack of assertiveness is something you should perhaps consider working on otherwise people will take advantage of you in all sorts of ways. It can be improved and I know because I used to suffer from it myself, checkout the self improvement section of your local bookshop.

Although I generally haggle, once a price is agreed then a deal is a deal and I think its very underhand and manipulative to try to renegotiate at the point of purchase unless the item has a significant previously undisclosed fault or something. Its no more acceptable than for a seller to suddenly decide they want more for it after all.

Edited August 1, 2011 by bassman7755

[flyfisher]

[quote name='bassman7755' post='1322803' date='Aug 1 2011, 10:02 AM']Although I generally haggle, once a price is agreed then a deal is a deal and I think its very underhand and manipulative to try to renegotiate at the point of purchase unless the item has a significant previously undisclosed fault or something. Its no more acceptable than for a seller to suddenly decide they want more for it after all.[/quote]

+1

Haggle away by all means, but a deal is a deal. If the deal is done unseen and it later turns out that the item is not as described then the [u]seller[/u] has broken the deal, at which point it's perfectly reasonable to renegotiate.

The only time I cancelled a deal was when trying to sell an item (nothing musical) and photos had been exchanged, discussions had and a price agreed. When the buyer turned up, they started moaning about this and that and tried to knock the price down, even though I reminded them we had already agreed a price.

So I said OK the deal's off, at which point they immediately offered the agreed price but I said it was too late. They then offered me a bit more but I still refused. A deal is a deal but they'd already shown their lack of integrity so they'd blown it.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='flyfisher' post='1322841' date='Aug 1 2011, 10:32 AM']...So I said OK the deal's off, at which point they immediately offered the agreed price but I said it was too late. [b]They then offered me a bit more but I still refused.[/b] A deal is a deal but they'd already shown their lack of integrity so they'd blown it.[/quote]
I admire your tenacity but that's just daft. No one came out of that looking good.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='chaypup' post='1322767' date='Aug 1 2011, 09:05 AM']You offer sex as part of the deal? Does that work? [/quote]
Every time. People get nervous and chip 10% off just to make me go away.

[quote name='Ross' post='1322784' date='Aug 1 2011, 09:32 AM']Realistically you just don't like haggling because you're bad at it.[/quote]
Depends on who you're 'haggling' with. In my job over the years, I've done hundreds of long-term negotiations. Some were enjoyable, some were soul-destroying. The worst ones always involved a client buyer / specifier / procurer who 'liked a haggle' and treated it as a testicular growth function. Though annoying, they were usually the easiest people to turn over. Because it was never about the deal, it was about them making themselves feel like Charlie Big Potatoes. The best sellers / buyers are usually the quiet, considered type with no ego to feed. In a way, Shockwave would probably make a good pro dealmaker.

[quote name='bassman7755' post='1322803' date='Aug 1 2011, 10:02 AM']I think its very underhand and manipulative to try to renegotiate at the point of purchase unless the item has a significant previously undisclosed fault or something.[/quote]
Quite right. Gazundering is a shithouse trick and the mark of the hobbyist.

Edited August 1, 2011 by skankdelvar

[ThomBassmonkey]

I have to admit, there was one occasion whe I turned up after agreeing a price then asked if he'd knock a bit off (I always ask unless it says firm price and I'd genuinely forgotten to before showing up) he said no and I handed over the agreed amount happily and he's made me an offer on something else I've been selling so it obviously didn't put him off.

I've said before that I don't understand the logic that a bass is only worth what someone is willing to pay. The value of a bass is just before the highest price someone would rather take the bass than the money, it doesn't matter if it's the buyer or seller.

Life (including on this forum) has taught me that it'a not worth extended haggling, if someone makes me an offer I'll say yes or no. If it's really close to the cut off point I have in my head, I might say but the offer will be take it or leave it. Trades are more complicated than straight cash offers, but I still rarely haggle.

People have said they don't understand why it can be taken offensively if someone puts in a low ball offer, my take on it is that if it's a stupidly low offer then people are trying to take advantage of me and assuming I'm a mug, which I don't appreciate.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1322857' date='Aug 1 2011, 10:46 AM']I admire your tenacity but that's just daft. No one came out of that looking good.[/quote]

I guess I put integrity and honesty above money. The guy tried it on then thought he could buy his way out of my distain for him. It's not about the money, it's about taking the pi$$.

So I sold it to someone else.

Edited August 2, 2011 by flyfisher

[Roland Rock]

[quote name='bassman7755' post='1322803' date='Aug 1 2011, 10:02 AM']Such a lack of assertiveness is something you should perhaps consider working on otherwise people will take advantage of you in all sorts of ways. It can be improved and I know because I used to suffer from it myself, checkout the self improvement section of your local bookshop.[/quote]

I'd disagree with this. Shockwave, from your post, it sounds like you are a really straight-up guy, and have already learned to do business without people taking advantage of you. What goes around comes around, and the more goodwill you spread, the better.

I'm fortunate enougn to never want to sell my gear, but if I did, lowball offers would be regarded with amusement, then politely declined. They'll get their comeuppance come karmageddon

[thepurpleblob]

If there's one thing I learned in the motor trade... a genuine "cash in the face" offer is always to be thought about. Any item is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it and that offer might be all you are going to get however much you don't like it.

Having said that, there is notional point where the punt is clearly cheeky. I've had cars for sale for 20K and someone comes around and offers 10K. I'm not sure what they think you are going to say

BTW... "no offers" or "firm" is just another way of saying "please don't buy this". Don't do it !!

[Gust0o]

Fair play to Rob for his efforts - but I think we all knew he was a great guy; having bought from him on another forum, I'd testify to that.

Have we covered the converse of the low ball offer? You know, those people who steadfastly refuse to acknowledge that this is a market place and thus subject to fluctuations? I think they almost invite their own frustrations.