Amp & Cab Purchase Advice - to Genz or not?

[andydye]

Am wanting a bit of advice...so this is clearly the place for that!

Lots of questions for y'all!

I currently play stingray 5s (fretted and fretless) and a p-bass through my PJB Sixpack, I used to play them through an Eden WT800 with 210XLT and 410XLT which sounded rather nice but was rather heavy (this is why I changed to PJB)...

My future bass aspirations include a possible pair of Shuker custom 6s (fretted and fretless) so any amp/cabs would need to accomodate that extended range and clarity...

I would describe my sound as 'versatile', the main band I play is covers so everything from bright p-bass rattle through mid-range punch with the rays to fat bluesy/jazz bottom end thump...I also play in church and in studios on and off.

Am hankering for a sound change and really like the look of the Genz Benz Shuttle 9.0 (I also like the sound as far as can be discerned from you-tube and manufacturers websites) so first off - any lovers/haters of the Benz with wisdom to share?

Any opinions on 9.0 over 6.0 too please? I 'read' somewhere about the 9.0 having a fuller bottom (as it were) than the 6.0, anyone experienced this or is it negligible in use?

Can the Genz Benz heads be used as preamp only to DI straight into a desk? As that would be very handy occasionally too.

Then I'd need some cab/s to play it through and I like the idea of 2 1x12 cabs, one to use for most gigs and bring out the other one for any bigger stuff or where pa provision is insufficient (the second would also double as home practice)
1x12 rather than 2x10?

Bergantino get a lot of love but they're about to run out of magnets, Vanderkley? Genz Benz? others??

I know I ultimately need to try something out in a shop before I finally decide but am trying to gather my bass-bro's real experiences of this kit which will help narrow down the options...

Thanks in advance for your input folks!

Edited July 12, 2011 by andydye

[paul_5]

I've been looking at Genz stuff lately. The manual that I read online states that they can be run as a standalone DI, as the power stage is solid state.

Hope this helps.

[JTUK]

Big fan of GS112 here..but only as a pair.... wouldn't use only one.

Easy to get hold of and decent value. The DB version uses the same chassis and has tad more presense, IMO

The GS crop up here SH ..but Berg and DB options less so.

Not sure about GB cabs... if you think Berg will run out of magnets, you might apply that thinking to NEO in general.. or at least think price HIKE..???

[Ghost_Bass]

I'm very happy with my STL9.0/12T rig. The head has more bottom comparing with the 6.0 but i find the cab a bit lacking on that region. GB gear is exactly as described, very transparent and clean sounding. You can't go wrong with the 9.0 but i would try other cabs (if possible) before buying.

The 900W from the head are overrated, i could have the same amount of volume from my old 300W Trace Elliot rig but we all know that Trace is known for underating their gear... but don't let this put you off, it can drown even the most savage of drummers! I tried running my head through 2 PA cabs (HK, 15" + 1.5" tweeter with 400W RMS @8Ohm each) and i managed to make them reach their limit before maxing out the amp!

The Streamliner series look very nice too.

[andydye]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1301117' date='Jul 12 2011, 03:02 PM']Big fan of GS112 here..but only as a pair.... wouldn't use only one.

Easy to get hold of and decent value. The DB version uses the same chassis and has tad more presense, IMO

The GS crop up here S/H...but Berg and DB options less so.

Not sure about GB cabs... if you think Berg will run out of magnets, you might apply that thinking to NEO in general.. or at least think price HIKE..???[/quote]

Ah Aguilar, I'd forgotten about them (oops!), they're a good price too compared to GB and Vanderkley! they appear to be marginally less sensitive (vanderkley quote 100db 1w m) and Aggie are quoting 95.

So are they not quite full enough to use individually? Do they take a low B nice and tight or do they get flappy?

Thanks matey

[andydye]

[quote name='paul_5' post='1301115' date='Jul 12 2011, 03:01 PM']I've been looking at Genz stuff lately. The manual that I read online states that they can be run as a standalone DI, as the power stage is solid state.

Hope this helps.[/quote]

spot on, thanks matey!

[andydye]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' post='1301173' date='Jul 12 2011, 03:40 PM']I'm very happy with my STL9.0/12T rig. The head has more bottom comparing with the 6.0 but i find the cab a bit lacking on that region. GB gear is exactly as described, very transparent and clean sounding. You can't go wrong with the 9.0 but i would try other cabs (if possible) before buying.

The 900W from the head are overrated, i could have the same amount of volume from my old 300W Trace Elliot rig but we all know that Trace is known for underating their gear... but don't let this put you off, it can drown even the most savage of drummers! I tried running my head through 2 PA cabs (HK, 15" + 1.5" tweeter with 400W RMS @8Ohm each) and i managed to make them reach their limit before maxing out the amp!

The Streamliner series look very nice too.[/quote]

The 9.0 sounds awesome, am becoming more keen! Thanks for the user feedback!!

[andydye]

So far the head will be Genz Benz Shuttle 9.0

...and cab options appear to be...

Bergantino AE112 300W, 40hz-18khz, 100db 1w m, 31lbs, £585 (Bass Direct) - can't get them new now though
Aguilar GS112 300W, 42hz-16khz, 95db 1w m, 42lbs, £408 (Bass Gallery)
Epifani UL 112 300W, 43hz-16khz, 100db 1w m, 32lbs, £475 (Bass Gallery)
Genz Benz Neox-112T 300W, 45hz-18khz, 98db 1w m, 36lbs, £595 (Bass Gallery)
Vanderkley 112EXT 300W, 45hz-16khz, 100db 1w m, 33lbs, £550 (Bass Gallery)

Barefaced Midget T 400w, 37hz-22khz, 95db 1w m, 22lbs, £550 (Barefaced)

Edited July 13, 2011 by andydye

[xgsjx]

What about a Barefaced cab?

If I was looking for a cab or two, they'd be on my list.





(Alex, what's the commision rate )

[JTUK]

[quote name='andydye' post='1301174' date='Jul 12 2011, 03:40 PM']Ah Aguilar, I'd forgotten about them (oops!), they're a good price too compared to GB and Vanderkley! they appear to be marginally less sensitive (vanderkley quote 100db 1w m) and Aggie are quoting 95.

So are they not quite full enough to use individually? Do they take a low B nice and tight or do they get flappy?

Thanks matey[/quote]


I am not sure I would say GS112 are not quite full enough and others are.... I wouldn't use just the one for anything but a jazzer gig
I suspect that most single 12"'s would have the same limitations and you'd need to pair them as well.

Used as a pair, the bottom end is massive and you'll handle a very good low B with defintion and authority at big volume..IF.. the bass is capable of giving that in the first place.
That is a BIG IF, as well, IMV..but you can't blame cabs for that.
My bass sound is 'lively' compared to a lot of bass sounds so I have to use a horn to get the full range but they don't lack anything, IMV.

I prefer the the pair of 2xDB210's myself over 2xGS112's but that is a preference not a flaw, IMO.

Our drummer..who is more into metal than I ever will be.. is amazed at the bass end I can put out of 2 tiny GS112's... and his other gigs are all about volume.
I would say with these types of cabs..that the size..whilst appealing..has it limitations..but you'll be hard pressed to notice that in a pr of GS112's with a horn, IMO.

all bets are off without a horn, IMO.

[andydye]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1301268' date='Jul 12 2011, 04:42 PM']I am not sure I would say GS112 are not quite full enough and others are.... I wouldn't use just the one for anything but a jazzer gig
I suspect that most single 12"'s would have the same limitations and you'd need to pair them as well.

Used as a pair, the bottom end is massive and you'll handle a very good low B with defintion and authority at big volume..IF.. the bass is capable of giving that in the first place.
That is a BIG IF, as well, IMV..but you can't blame cabs for that.
My bass sound is 'lively' compared to a lot of bass sounds so I have to use a horn to get the full range but they don't lack anything, IMV.

I prefer the the pair of 2xDB210's myself over 2xGS112's but that is a preference not a flaw, IMO.

Our drummer..who is more into metal than I ever will be.. is amazed at the bass end I can put out of 2 tiny GS112's... and his other gigs are all about volume.
I would say with these types of cabs..that the size..whilst appealing..has it limitations..but you'll be hard pressed to notice that in a pr of GS112's with a horn, IMO.

all bets are off without a horn, IMO.[/quote]

I suspect the general use would be single 12 used as on stage monitoring (so nice tight B will be important but massive bass not so) to augment and provide sensation over and above my iem with occasional crazy gigs requiring both cabs so that should work out nicely...

I would definately be looking 'mit horn' rather than 'ohne horn'

Thanks again for your help matey!

[Owen]

I have an ACME 12" fullrange on the way in from the US which might well do it for you. Certainly worth throwing into the mix as something to consider.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='andydye' post='1301195' date='Jul 12 2011, 03:54 PM']...and cab options appear to be...

Bergantino AE112 300W, 40hz-18khz, 100db 1w m, 31lbs, £585 (Bass Direct) - can't get them new now though
Aguilar GS112 300W, 42hz-16khz, 95db 1w m, 42lbs, £408 (Bass Gallery)
Epifani UL 112 300W, 43hz-16khz, 100db 1w m, 32lbs, £475 (Bass Gallery)
Genz Benz Neox-112T 300W, 45hz-18khz, 98db 1w m, 36lbs, £595 (Bass Gallery)
Vanderkley 112EXT 300W, 45hz-16khz, 100db 1w m, 33lbs, £550 (Bass Gallery)

Barefaced Midget T 300w, 37hz-22khz, 95db 1w m, 22lbs, £550 (Barefaced)[/quote]

A few things to point out! The Midget T has a 3" voice coil which means it handles 400W thermally all day long whilst the other cabs have 2.5" voice coils so they're in the 250W area thermally. The Midget T has a stronger magnet so it has greater broadband sensitivity, so it produces greater loudness from a given wattage input, than all the other cabs. The Midget T can move more air than the other cabs because it has more Xmax and greater port area and will handle much more power in the lows (550W) without distortion.

Thus two Midgets will produce as much output as three AE112s or UL112s or Neox112s or four GS112s. This ability is borne out by Midgets being used singly in loud rock bands, which is almost unheard of for 1x12" cabs. Unfortunately due to the vastly increased cost of neodymium we're currently applying a £40/woofer surcharge to cover some (nowhere near all!) of this cost increase.

Edited July 13, 2011 by alexclaber

[Musicman20]

[quote name='andydye' post='1301195' date='Jul 12 2011, 03:54 PM']So far the head will be Genz Benz Shuttle 9.0

...and cab options appear to be...

Bergantino AE112 300W, 40hz-18khz, 100db 1w m, 31lbs, £585 (Bass Direct) - can't get them new now though
Aguilar GS112 300W, 42hz-16khz, 95db 1w m, 42lbs, £408 (Bass Gallery)
Epifani UL 112 300W, 43hz-16khz, 100db 1w m, 32lbs, £475 (Bass Gallery)
Genz Benz Neox-112T 300W, 45hz-18khz, 98db 1w m, 36lbs, £595 (Bass Gallery)
Vanderkley 112EXT 300W, 45hz-16khz, 100db 1w m, 33lbs, £550 (Bass Gallery)

Barefaced Midget T 400w, 37hz-22khz, 95db 1w m, 22lbs, £550 (Barefaced)[/quote]

Aguilar DB112?

[andydye]

[quote name='owen' post='1301889' date='Jul 13 2011, 07:46 AM']I have an ACME 12" fullrange on the way in from the US which might well do it for you. Certainly worth throwing into the mix as something to consider.[/quote]

Never heard of them, they look fun but I suspect they're near impossible to try before you buy...at least barefaced are a UK builder so there's a possibility of trying first?

[andydye]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='1301899' date='Jul 13 2011, 08:06 AM']A few things to point out! The Midget T has a 3" voice coil which means it handles 400W thermally all day long whilst the other cabs have 2.5" voice coils so they're in the 250W area thermally. The Midget T has a stronger magnet so it has greater broadband sensitivity, so it produces greater loudness from a given wattage input, than all the other cabs. The Midget T can move more air than the other cabs because it has more Xmax and greater port area and will handle much more power in the lows (550W) without distortion.

Thus two Midgets will produce as much output as three AE112s or UL112s or Neox112s or four GS112s. This ability is borne out by Midgets being used singly in loud rock bands, which is almost unheard of for 1x12" cabs. Unfortunately due to the vastly increased cost of neodymium we're currently applying a £40/woofer surcharge to cover some (nowhere near all!) of this cost increase.[/quote]

Thanks for the clarification Alex, I really like the look of your midget cabs and the quality of the feedback given, having looked at your website my only question is...2 midgets or midget + compact?

Convenience for me would be 2 midgets so I can use one all the time and keep the other at home for practice and to wheel out or any bigger gigs, does that sound doable?

[andydye]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1301932' date='Jul 13 2011, 09:05 AM']Aguilar DB112?[/quote]

Same price as the GS but slightly heavier, JTUK mentioned that range too, there is much to consider! I'm leaning towards Barefaced I think, this is such a minefield!

[andydye]

thus far my dream set-up is looking like...

Genz Benz Shuttle 9.0
2x Barefaced Midget-T

...hhmmm just need to sell my Sixpack then

[Musicman20]

The DBs can be had for around £400 if you are cheeky.

Bass Merchant are the best place for Aguilar...and cheapest.

[chris_b]

[quote name='andydye' post='1302156' date='Jul 13 2011, 11:53 AM']thus far my dream set-up is looking like...

Genz Benz Shuttle 9.0
2x Barefaced Midget-T[/quote]
How did you settle on the STL 9? Have you looked at the Streamliner 900 or the TC RH750? Both would be stiff competition for the STL 9.

[alexclaber]

Andy, send me an email if you want some help with the amp choosing part - the key is matching all the parts of the signal chain together, from your hands to the speakers, to get the tone you want! Everyone's idea of thump/punch/clarity is different, hence the sound clips thing...

[andydye]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1302325' date='Jul 13 2011, 01:47 PM']The DBs can be had for around £400 if you are cheeky.

Bass Merchant are the best place for Aguilar...and cheapest.[/quote]

oo, I'll have a look!

Thanks again

[andydye]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1302345' date='Jul 13 2011, 02:03 PM']How did you settle on the STL 9? Have you looked at the Streamliner 900 or the TC RH750? Both would be stiff competition for the STL 9.[/quote]

The TC stuff looks a bit plasticky to me and the buttons sound a bit clunky on vids I've seen, the sound (being totally digital) doesn't convince me in the way the Genz stuff does but that's only comparing vid to vid, also features wise I like having real valves...

As for the STL9 rather than Streamliner, it looks nicer? I guess it's mostly the features available, the parametric mids rather than preset mid selection are an attractive option to me, I like to be able to select a frequency if I need to, it's also a smidge lighter, I guess there's not really that much in it and it ought to come down to sound but I can't get to anywhere that stocks them to try them out, price wise they're pretty close too.

[Musicman20]

Ive owned the S 9.0, and the RH450. I currently have the STL900 and the RH750.

I can tell you from this experience that the TC RH amps are very very high quality, and the 'tubetone' sounds MUCH more like a real tube amp compared to the S9.0. The 9.0 tube sounded a little fizzy.

Weight isnt really a factor when it comes to these amps. However, I found the Shuttle amps to be a bit 'flimsy' because they are SO light, and in fact, I was worried they would fly off the top of my cabinet.

Wattage doesnt really come into it as all the manufacturers seem to rate them differently.

Markbass 500W amps seem to have almost as much headroom as the Shuttle 9.0 amps...almost.

The TC RH amps are VERY loud, and dont sound digital at all.

If you want a real tube design in a class D amp, it has to be the Streamliner 900. Higher quality build and slightly high weight compared to the Shuttle series. Very very beefy in the low end, and sweeter highs than the Shuttles. The difference is night and day.

The RH750 does everything you could think of...expensive, but a very impressive amp. Loud, light, high quality build, lots of headroom, great tubetone, etc etc.

Edited July 13, 2011 by Musicman20

[jimrs2k]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1302345' date='Jul 13 2011, 02:03 PM']How did you settle on the STL 9? Have you looked at the Streamliner 900 or the TC RH750? Both would be stiff competition for the STL 9.[/quote]

I went for the shuttlemax 9.2 and paired with my fearful 15/6/1 and it the best sounding light weight rig ive ever heard, full stop.
As the barefaced cabs are similar i would imagine it to be about the same.
for me the the RH 750/450 were too coloured for my taste.