Musicman Stingray G-string issues

[Raslee]

Hello, Hope someone can share their pearls of wisdom.

I scored an 88 MM Stingray on here a few months back and i have to say i love it to bits, plays like a dream and easily my favourite bass........however:

The bass itself seems to have a lot more treble than i'm used to. It's great i guess if your a funkateer and want to do the Louis Johnson thing, however i'm not that talented to do Louis. I guess i'm a dub man who likes a warm phat sound so i have the treble pretty much all the way off.

When playing like this the G & sometimes the D gets lost, the E & A strings notes dominate the sound. I've tried raising the pick up towards the G and dropping at the E end. I've also fiddled with my amp eq to see if i can balance the strings more....no luck. I have owned three MM's rays in the past and don't remember having this issue - is it an 80's thang?.

Any suggestions?

I'm considering maybe i need to change the pre-amp (one day as skint) to a John East - i used to have one on a Pre EB ray and had no issues. Or should i consider the pick up, maybe a Norstrand or any other suggestions? Are there any modifications i can do to the MM pre amp?

One thing i have not considered until now is turning the bass EQ down on the bass and then up on the amp, maybe that may work ???

Any thoughts ?

[mep]

Do a search as this has cropped up a few times and there are extensive thread on the issue. For the moment I can't find any.

I had the same issue and resolved it by pushing the pup poles in so they were flush for the d & g sting which enabled the pup to be raised under those strings so you don't catch yoyur fingers on them. Adjusting your eq helps a bit. Mine sings a treat now but it used to annoy me each gig.

Alternatively go post a thread on the EB forum and watch the backlash!

[Musicman20]

Adjust the EQ...dont cut the mids too much!

Ive never had this issue....but I think thats the answer.

The EBMM pickups and preamp are expensive anyway, id never swap them out!

Another idea. For more thump, whack some flats on it.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Rasta' post='1129558' date='Feb 16 2011, 01:04 PM']Hello, Hope someone can share their pearls of wisdom.

I scored an 88 MM Stingray on here a few months back and i have to say i love it to bits, plays like a dream and easily my favourite bass........however:

The bass itself seems to have a lot more treble than i'm used to. It's great i guess if your a funkateer and want to do the Louis Johnson thing, however i'm not that talented to do Louis. I guess i'm a dub man who likes a warm phat sound so i have the treble pretty much all the way off.

When playing like this the G & sometimes the D gets lost, the E & A strings notes dominate the sound. I've tried raising the pick up towards the G and dropping at the E end. I've also fiddled with my amp eq to see if i can balance the strings more....no luck. I have owned three MM's rays in the past and don't remember having this issue - is it an 80's thang?.

Any suggestions?

I'm considering maybe i need to change the pre-amp (one day as skint) to a John East - i used to have one on a Pre EB ray and had no issues. Or should i consider the pick up, maybe a Norstrand or any other suggestions? Are there any modifications i can do to the MM pre amp?

One thing i have not considered until now is turning the bass EQ down on the bass and then up on the amp, maybe that may work ???

Any thoughts ?[/quote]
Exactly the same with my new Jazz. It's getting an East J-Retro 01 in it tonight. Its standard tone is the only thing I don't like about the bass. I get strings disappearing too with the tone rolled off.

[Raslee]

Cheers guys, i'll try pushing the poles pieces through and see if that yields any results. I've tried the eq earlier and no joy on that, perhaps i should try a compressor?

It's strange because i want to play my MM more but keep coming back to my Jazz as it never lets me down. Flats could be a good option on the MM.

Sildxx, i'm using Lindy fralin pick ups in my Jazz which seem to be well balanced with the tone roled off. I also have Lindy's in my 5 string too...really rate them. Does the J-East J retro allow for a passive option also or is it all active?

Edited February 16, 2011 by Rasta

[xilddx]

[quote name='Rasta' post='1129786' date='Feb 16 2011, 03:40 PM']Cheers guys, i'll try pushing the poles pieces through and see if that yields any results. I've tried the eq earlier and no joy on that, perhaps i should try a compressor?

It's strange because i want to play my MM more but keep coming back to my Jazz as it never lets me down. Flats could be a good option on the MM.

Sildxx, i'm using Lindy fralin pick ups in my Jazz which seem to be well balanced with the tone roled off. I also have Lindy's in my 5 string too...really rate them. Does the J-East J retro allow for a passive option also or is it all active?[/quote]
Here you go mate, EBMM versions specs from John's website ..

[url="http://www.east-uk.com/mmsr3k2b.pdf"]http://www.east-uk.com/mmsr3k2b.pdf[/url]

[url="http://www.east-uk.com/mmsr3k3b.pdf"]http://www.east-uk.com/mmsr3k3b.pdf[/url]

[danny-79]

Check your pickup height is the best place to start.
Measure from the top of the pickup cover (plastic not the poles) to the bottom of the string an set it to 6/32 on both sides, then if still sounding weak on the G side take it up slightly to about 5/32.
The full FAQ with the factory set up speck is on the EBMM website
Good luck !

[danny-79]

Heres a link to the FAQ site

[url="http://www.ernieball.com/faq/4-MusicMan-Bass-Guitars-FAQ#43"]http://www.ernieball.com/faq/4-MusicMan-Bass-Guitars-FAQ#43[/url]

[stingrayPete1977]

I have found people are too scared to take the E string end right down, If you think about it in reality there would be a point where the G is stronger than the E even though it would be very angled so my first suggestion is to raise the G string end as close as you personally could have it then lower the E string away until the best spot is found. I do mine by keeping a screwdriver to hand during practice and adjust between songs to get it right in a band mix as it can sound right then still get lost once the band kick in. The pup and preamp have plenty of poke to cope with retracting the E end in much more than you probably have now.

[obi 2 kenobi]

The cause of the weak G is the large size of the pick up magnets.

Lower E side and raise G side of pick up.
Use 45 guage on G and 100 on E
If you have a 3eq ray, boost mid

Thats it

[Ou7shined]

I had never personally experienced the phenomena, until one day recently I noticed a quiet G though my Korg PX4D (headphones on) and yet it was perfect through my rig, my lappy and everything else I could find to put it through.

This would indicate to me that it is an eq/frequency thang.

[Beedster]

Flatwound strings mate, it might solve both your problems. Speculatively putting a set of La Bella flats on my '80 'ray was such a great surprise; funky as hell, smooth and creamy up top whilst retaining all the bottom end.

Can't help thinking Leo designed the 'ray with flats in mind

C

[peteb]

Generally the problem is that the stingray's pickup poles don't align properly with the G-string

I've just put in a passive EMG pick up in my ray, keeping the MM curcuit - sounds great and no more G-string issues!

[mcnach]

[quote name='Rasta' post='1129786' date='Feb 16 2011, 03:40 PM']Cheers guys, i'll try pushing the poles pieces through and see if that yields any results. I've tried the eq earlier and no joy on that, perhaps i should try a compressor?

It's strange because i want to play my MM more but keep coming back to my Jazz as it never lets me down. Flats could be a good option on the MM.

Sildxx, i'm using Lindy fralin pick ups in my Jazz which seem to be well balanced with the tone roled off. I also have Lindy's in my 5 string too...really rate them. Does the J-East J retro allow for a passive option also or is it all active?[/quote]


I'm not Sildxx, but I have some experience with John East preamps...

The J-Retro01 has a passive/active switch.
The MM type preamp doesn't... but when I wanted one for my Stingray, I emailed them and they made me one with a bypass switch. I only paid a very little extra, to account for the difference in price with the new pot required (I chose a push/pull pot raher than a separate switch).

They're great preamps.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='peteb' post='1130232' date='Feb 16 2011, 08:44 PM']Generally the problem is that the stingray's pickup poles don't align properly with the G-string

I've just put in a passive EMG pick up in my ray, keeping the MM curcuit - sounds great and no more G-string issues![/quote]

I don't subscribe to the pole piece argument at all, We did a test a few months ago and many makes and model don't line up and FYI on the MM if you read up somewhere on the musicman.org site it goes into detail about how the alignment has already been accounted for in the design. Very few Fenders appear to have all 4 or 5 strings passing directly over the pole pieces nor does bending strings weaken and strengthen the output. Putting a closed cover over the polepieces on pups made by someone else doesn't mean they are any more or less lined up either it just means you can't see the phsycoligical link between it not being above the hidden pole piece. Do guitarists lose the signal in and out when bending between 4 different pole pieces? No.

Sorry if that sounded like a rant but it's easier to give all the reasons why it's just not the case in one go than to go back and forth it's not too say the aftermarket pups aren't more balanced, powerful or better tone that's largely subjective but pole piece alignment it is not.

Edited February 16, 2011 by stingrayPete1977

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Rasta' post='1129558' date='Feb 16 2011, 01:04 PM']One thing i have not considered until now is turning the bass EQ down on the bass and then up on the amp, maybe that may work ???

Any thoughts ?[/quote]

I would try that, it sort of worked for me.

Both my SUB and Ray34 (yes Pete, i know its not a real SR4 ) had this issue, my Ray34 even had a Nordy in it which helped a bit but not 100%. I found the low freqs could overpower the G string, especially at the first 5-6 frets. Higher up it wasn't too bad.
With the mid knob flat or cut on my 3 band EQ Ray34 the G would easily get lost. With it boosted the G would be more prominent, although not it a P bass like way.
I also found the Nordy changed the overall tone to a slightly more mellow one. I know load so fpeopel love this pup but i found it a bit bland.

I also think its down to playing style as well, this would explain why only certain people find this issue. I play most of the time with a pick and found this didn't help. Playing with fingers made quite a difference.

There is no conclusive answer, but most people do figure out what works best for them, and others dont have this issue anyway.
As for the pole pieces theory. I tapped the E-A-D pole pieces down in my SUB so that all 4 strings were the same height. It made little difference IMO.

Edited February 17, 2011 by dave_bass5