Combo for pub gigs etc - ideas?

[EBS_freak]

I don't know about you guys and who you are playing with, but I couldn't keep up with the rest of the band a single 10 or a single 12... and I don't play in loud bands.

For me, the 2x12 is the new 15. If I was looking to buy a combo, it would probably be a 2x12 or a 1x12 with the ability to add another 1x12.

Depends upon your budget really, but to echo others on here, for a small setup, I would be investigating Genz.

[deepbass5]

Warning against single small speaker cabs that are fashionable.
I have gigged in Function bands for thirty years now, and shelled out lots of money on rigs that fitted my wallet or my car. There are loads of good rigs second hand on this site and good advice to help you make the right choice that will allow you to grow with your band as venues get bigger. I made a mistake once buying my second combo. A new Ampeg B1 combo. These were great 150 watt single removable rack with a three valve preamp. Built into a nice single 12" cab. It sounded incredible in the shop, at home, at practice and on quiet gigs, but get in a civic hall or an even a pub with 100 people stood in front of you, I was embarrassed that I had nothing left to give. I even bought a Peavey 15"+2x8" cab so I could use the amp at larger venues. Eventually it had to go, I was sad because it was a lovely amp but did not suit my gigging environment.
I would advocate a 2x10 or 2x12" minimum for rocky pub or Indie type bands and any of the new lightweight amps 300 - 500 watts. you may not need more that 200w but headroom is a wonderful thing. Check out my rig below, I don’t need a 4x12 cab or the 500 watts of my Markbass amp it’s there for those unexpected venues and when I get Marquee gigs. This is my main rig for weddings and dinner dances my amp is usually on 2 or 3 at 9 o'clock. My EA rig is for Jazz and big band work I intend to get another 12" cab so I can confidently take two on a functions band gig due to my past experience. Good luck hunting down a rig there have been a couple of 2x12 Techamps for sale these are awesome.

[Lozz196]

Agree with the previous post. I`ve been through the combo route, and had the same experience, getting totally lost in the band. Was ok in bands with one guitarist, but once another joined, goodbye bass presence. I am going back to the 80s though, and amps have moved on, but I, like Deepbass5 like to have a fair sized rig and use 20/30% of the power available, rather than have to always push my amp, and be worried that I`ll push it too far.

[ras52]

Phew, I'm glad I started thinking about this in advance! I was sorely tempted by a TecAmp S210 cab in the marketplace here but held fire, even though the seller is quite close. (Such discipline!)

I'm really liking the concept of the GB Shuttle, but am having a harder time liking the price tag, especially if I add an extension cab. I'm not still not sure about my budget but can clearly see that £1K is easier to spend than £500!

[Marvin]

From a personal standpoint I find the whole subject of what amp to buy an absolute minefield. There are just so many permutations to consider - combos, heads & cabs, output, watts, speaker size, spl etc etc etc.

I must have spent literally hours looking at what amp to buy and have finally plumped for a Fender Rumble 350. There are many on here that'll say I've bought the wrong thing, but it's a 350w 2x10 that I think will do pub gigs adequately, and that's all I need it for and I can't afford anything more expensive (I would have liked a second hand Trace but live too far from anyone selling one).
Being on a budget and having limited storage space available precluded me going down the head and cab route. It's all just a mind boggling nightmare

[janmaat]

Yery happy with Minimark. 150W on 2 x 6 inch, may not shake your trousers but totally loud enough for the odd small venue.
But it takes an extension cab and then goes up to 350W - wooow. The best thing is that it is _seriously_ portable, but loud
enough to keep up with any sane drummer.

[deepbass5]

Marvin, sounds like you have done the right thing with your Fender. It is a mine field and we all get caught up in the manufacturers Hype. Like I said I have learned the hard way too, but also learned through owning the PA. The same physics apply there, and it was reading up on acoustics and speaker efficiencies that helped me understand my bass rigs better. There is loads of stuff on the web, but here are a few pointers.
A really good book by Glenn Letsch (Stuff good bass players should know) by HAL LEONARD. Full of good gear tips and music technique.

Bass Player Mag did run a comparison on speaker cone equivalents which was interesting, with reference surface area and moving air. I'll try and dig it out and edit it in here.
Found it Jan 03
1x8" = 35 square inches
1x10 = 55 " "
2x8" = 70 " "
1x12"= 80 " "
2x10" = 110 " "
1x15" = 130 " "
4x8" = 140 " "
2x12" = 160 " "
3x10" = 165 " "
1x18" = 185 " "
4x10" = 220 " "
2x15" = 260 " "
4x12" = 320 " "
6x10" = 330 " "
2x18" = 370 " "
8x10 = 440 " "

Also read that stacking cabs lowers the frequency of the bottom cab by about 10 Hz. i.e. (4x10 over 1x15) will try and check the source of that but sure it came from a Peavey Monitor Mag, The Grateful Dead used huge column speakers that are legendary this approach has been neglected more recently due to size, but my first band used the old WEM column cabs just like the Beatles did and most British bands well into the 70's
The sort of things you need to take on board is the Watts bass players need to be comparable with a guitarist, and it’s 4 to 6 times, because bass frequencies are watt hungry. The human ear does not hear linearly. which is why we and most high- fi buffs love the old graphic EQ smiley face shape, because we are compensating for how we hear which is the opposite shape, with a peak around 1K.

Also be aware of manufacturers efficiency figures as the industry standard way is measured using a 1khz tone at 1 dB at 1 metre so horns and bullet tweeters skew this somewhat. Buying high efficient cabs is a good guide but tone and a proper trial is needed. Take the Acme 1B cab for e.g. very in-efficient needs a ton of watts to power it buts sounds great.

Good luck

[pete.young]

[quote name='deepbass5' post='1075660' date='Jan 2 2011, 08:01 PM']M
Bass Player Mag did run a comparison on speaker cone equivalents which was interesting, with reference surface area and moving air.[/quote]

It seems to me that this is meaningless. In order to know the volume of air that a driver moves, you also need to know how far the cones move, which is going to be specific to individual drivers.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='pete.young' post='1075758' date='Jan 2 2011, 09:24 PM']It seems to me that this is meaningless. In order to know the volume of air that a driver moves, you also need to know how far the cones move, which is going to be specific to individual drivers.[/quote]
This was my thoughts as well when reading this as I know the B&C drivers in Markbass cabs have 21mm of travel instead of the usual 18mm.
Not sure how much difference this makes, but it surely makes some as would the size of the cab.

[machinehead]

This might be of some interest.

[url="http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/Volume-displacement.htm"]http://barefacedbass.com/technical-informa...isplacement.htm[/url]

Frank.

[deepbass5]

The words around the Bass Player article does basically state that of the Barefaced Cab article Machinehead posted, which is there are an awful lot of factors to take into consideration, Cab design porting etc. But one constant we can all recognise is cone surface area. Because a particular make of speaker cone can travel 5mm further than another makes no difference musically. Any one note played in any song will have a pitch which will determine the vibration frequency and our volume settings and how we attack that note will determine how far the cone will move on my rig or any other bass rig. I don't think anyone should consider that cone extension is used as a sales plus musically. It is nice to know that maybe a short on your jack socket will not destroy your speaker before you can turn it off. What this point highlights is that, is it not better to have four speakers moving a quarter of the amount than that of a cab with one speaker cone in it.

I think all manufacturers should be made to choose a colour for their cones, then our women can choose which cabs we buy and would not be limited to just Blue or yellow

[eude]

Just a quick note, I played a gig on the 28th, to about 300/400 folks using a 15" kickback combo for stage monitoring (well known brand) and as soon as the "live" sound kicked in, I couldn't hear a thing and had to rely on the wedge monitors entirely to hear myself - really missed the power and clarity of my wee Promethean...

I think, at least if you're considering using the amp for stage monitoring, I'd avoid going for a single 15", simply just not punchy enough to be heard above everything else...

My other 2p

Eude

[Musky]

[quote name='deepbass5' post='1076568' date='Jan 3 2011, 05:57 PM']Because a particular make of speaker cone can travel 5mm further than another makes no difference musically. Any one note played in any song will have a pitch which will determine the vibration frequency and our volume settings and how we attack that note will determine how far the cone will move on my rig or any other bass rig.[/quote]
No difference at all until the speaker starts crapping out in the bass frequencies, which commonly kicks in at just a third of a speakers thermal power rating. Then you might be quite happy to have that extra 5mm of xmax to stay musical or indeed keep your speakers cones intact.

[CJPJ]

I don't know how well my Orange Terror Bass and SP210 would suit your gigging needs but it might be a set up worth considering. It's not a combo but it's small and lightweight and pumps out significant bassage. I have an both in an 'as new' state for sale in the for sale section (funnily enough). If you are in the area you are welcome to try it out.

Christian

[machinehead]

[quote name='deepbass5' post='1076568' date='Jan 3 2011, 05:57 PM']The words around the Bass Player article does basically state that of the Barefaced Cab article Machinehead posted, which is there are an awful lot of factors to take into consideration, Cab design porting etc. But one constant we can all recognise is cone surface area. Because a particular make of speaker cone can travel 5mm further than another makes no difference musically. Any one note played in any song will have a pitch which will determine the vibration frequency and our volume settings and how we attack that note will determine how far the cone will move on my rig or any other bass rig. I don't think anyone should consider that cone extension is used as a sales plus musically. It is nice to know that maybe a short on your jack socket will not destroy your speaker before you can turn it off. What this point highlights is that, is it not better to have four speakers moving a quarter of the amount than that of a cab with one speaker cone in it.[/quote]

This would only be correct at low volumes. At higher volumes your speaker with less "travel" will fart and distort. And the speaker with more "travel" will be clearer and louder.

Frank.

[ras52]

Hi, OP here. Combophobics will be pleased to hear that I'm heading away from that route, with a current shortlist including the Genz Benz Shuttle, TC Classic and Little Mark heads. GB, Barefaced, and Schroeder cabs all "sound" good on paper. I'll be off to do some serious auditioning shortly.

[Lozz196]

As an owner of a TC Classic, I can definately recommend it.

And am very tempted by Barefaced cabs too............

[xgsjx]

I was a combophobic until I got one!

[deepbass5]

[quote name='machinehead' post='1077236' date='Jan 4 2011, 12:59 PM']This would only be correct at low volumes. At higher volumes your speaker with less "travel" will fart and distort. And the speaker with more "travel" will be clearer and louder.

Frank.[/quote]

Yep I can go with that, I've been there, which is why I am saying, if you are making a purchase choice don't put yourself in the position of buying a single small speaker cab not rated to do a standalone job. It will break up and sound sh*t, when you add a guitar, keyboard, Drummer and PA and vocal monitors coming back at you in a live situation.
Can any one of you imagine playing a gig in your own band and not having a PA and asking the singer to sing through one 10" or single 12" combo placed beside the drummer, would anyone risk it, mmmm. The vocal frequencies are easier to amplify than bass frequencies.

[GRAHAM SG1]

I had my first rehearsal last night since buying my GK MBE115 cabinet and the difference it makes is unbelievable, since taking on a second guitarist (loud) my GK MB210 has been struggling for headroom, it was on 3/4 on gain,master and boost but with the cab it only needs 1/4 max now, it is VERY loud and powerful, more than matching the two guitars so that is £240 very well spent
The rating has gone from 350 to 500 Watt with the cab but it seems much more than that, I could feel the air movement from the 15" on the back of my legs !!
Best bit is I can carry both in one trip !

[ras52]

The deed is done! I've gone for a TC Classic 450 + BC210. The cab is larger but lighter than the "matching" RS210 (and sounded better to my ears), and still fits in the boot of the car without putting the seats down or removing the parcel shelf. Combined weight is 23kg, compared with the old Trace Elliot combo's 44kg - result!

[Lozz196]

Nice one. I`ve just finally used my TC Classic 450 at band practice and am soooooo pleased with it. Bucketloads of power, great tonal variation, and eassier to carry than your weekly shopping.