JTUK

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1410253171' post='2547452'] There's an awful lot of tosh talked about 3-piece bands, isn't there? What does that expression even mean? Any supposedly 4-piece band with a dedicated singer can be thought of as a 3-piece band, so to Rory, Jimi, Eric [i]et al[/i] you can immediately add The Who and The Monkees ... can't remember many Monkees hits with extended guitar solos but then I'm getting old. [/quote] I agree, same applies, but we do need to make the distinction between pub bands and Name bands.

[quote name='Bassman Steve' timestamp='1410251779' post='2547433'] Poor old Rory, Jimi, Eric et al. Still, one must have standards eh? [/quote] If you had a Rory or Jimi in your band, you'd have a point. I am guessing you don't, of course.

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1410218918' post='2547339'] Of course there isn’t – different strokes for different folks, etc! What some people like JT don’t like is that the guitar player is very often pushed to the front in a three piece (but not always by any means) as there is no singer-frontman to share the limelight or a keys player to share solos and the tenor or high musical registers. They also don’t like that someone in a trio will make twice as much as those in a six piece playing the same gig and have less gear to cart around and probably need less rehearsal, etc! I like trios; both to play in and to listen to. There is definitely a knack to playing in a three piece – knowing where to create space and how to fill it when necessary. Not everybody can manage to pull that off…! I would also agree that I would much rather play to a crowd that have specifically come to listen to a particular band playing music (in a pub or elsewhere) rather than just be the entertainment at a party where you have to try and please everyone in the room, even though they may all have completely different musical tastes… [/quote] I am not so worried about what people make ...and I don't consider pub money as a goal. We all do it and we play a few pubs throughout the year and they serve a purpose, but they aren't what we target. Our focus is on a party set anyway, and we don't do out and out functions as such as we don't want to play that stuff. Other bands may be better set up to follow that path but we do do a handfui of weddings a year and we pretty much insist the bookers have seen us because we don't do requests or alter our set much at all. What we would lose in a pub we more than make up on festivals and party type gigs which put us in a different money league than pub fees but my point is that the 3 piece bands are probably worth what we are worth per man if they are good.... and that makes them a cheap option for the LL. I make it my business to know all about the local bands that can draw and charge ticket money and how many they sell at and there is a differnce between good and popular. It helps if you are both, of course, but generally popular wins out.

[quote name='phil.c60' timestamp='1410215853' post='2547314'] As the bass player in a three piece (all right, sometimes + harmonica player) that gigs around Brighton and the surrounding area I find your tone quite patronising. Have you seen all these bands that "aren't that good" and "Not worth their fee"? Three piece is hard work - you have to make it interesting. As for the price - we play at one particular venue that's renowned for music, and the punters go there because they expect to be entertained (they even turn their chairs to face the band when you strike up - I kid you not. The first time I played there, only my second gig ever, I was petrified) it's tiny and they have a flat rate of £100+ a jug. You can have as many in the band as you like, or be whoever you want -that's it. Don't like it, fine, don't play there. Oh, and by the way, Gary Moore played there regularly -if it was good enough for him..... and as for lights, well, if you want flashing lights, why not just go clubbing. [/quote] Yep, I have seen them, that is why I make the comment. 3 piece is very hard work for the band and I would say pretty hard work on the audience and solo after solo from a gtr in the same genre isn't going to stay interesting for very long, IMO. The comment about lights is almost throw away but then the standard of the day round here is to make that effort and bands that don't are judged on presentation as much as anything else. The music needs to be good as does the overall show. I think the LL's book them because they are cheap..or can be... and therefore he robs Peter to pay Paul on his band nights. This makes room for the better bands. Of course, the number in the band garauntees nothing but as far as top of the tree goes, I don't think there are any 3 piece bands around here that are near it, IMO. And I make a point of seeing a LOT of bands here.

[quote name='Merton' timestamp='1409296904' post='2538322'] Sounds like it's one of the new TE combos so they'll be 200W Celestion drivers I think, and in my (albeit limited) experience their new cabs are better than the mid 90s stuff. [/quote] It was actually an Ashdown 210 which did ok... but that makes a nonsense of the tech rider in that you couldn't trust them to get the model spec of anything right. And just to emphasise that point, the monitors weren't going to be much help either as they mostly were basic vox wedges which was not what we were told.

The 3 piece bands aren't that good... all gtr solos and it takes a very very special player to make that interesting for anywhere near an hour, let alone 2 sets. Out of all the bands that do the dates around here, the gtr bands really focus on the gtr...the P.A is an after thought as are the vocals. Forget about lights as well, so all in all, no, they aren't worth their fee, IMO....but hey, they play blues, they must be cool And...they don't pull in the punters either, so I really don't know how they get gigs..

I like more room with the cab than that. 600w of what..?? You start moving the cones and 600w isn't that much.. I'd be happy if you said it was vox and higher frequencies only. A power rating by certain manufacturers is different than with others. RMS should be RMS, but I remain sceptical

Horrid little things

[quote name='spacey' timestamp='1410164030' post='2546605'] Tested in they plug it in to see if it works ? As I said I hope they buck the trend, we shall see, there is always this honeymoon period of everyone wants one when any amp moves from bespoke maker to mass production for "lower costs" . The brand built a reputation on reliability and quality merchandise. Why they would want to mess about with what works I never know. What they end up making IMO is a copy of the ones that made the name. Personally, I would rather let someone else test it or buy a second hand one. Agree with karlfer, early signs are that they are not the brand they were, looking forward to some more user comments of the new stuff to see if it was a one off. [/quote] I think it is simple. Manufacturer works at and builds a product over quite a period. The product is now pretty mainstream and the maker is looking to take a back seat and maximise profits for the day they retire/sell-out. Streamlining the costs is a natural step for them .. Any buyer will do the same anyway ( like Fender etc ) so they are making the books look better alround for the next stage.. Watch out for the next stage... Personally I don't blame them if I were in their shoes, but as a buyer, this is why I buy western music product as I think there is a premium to be paid.

There is competition between bands..it can be cordial and respectful, but it is there...IMO. The best bands are the ones that justify their fee and one that can earn £300 in a pub must work pretty hard to get the people in to such a degree that is worth paying them the higher rates. And to get those extra people in, the band must consistantly proove they are worth it so that differential continue to works and they continue to get the higher fees. Various ways to do it, of course...you can of course, be the BEST band playing-wise but that is subjective to a lot of non musician type people., but if you don't draw, you wont get the numbers in, regardless of what your tactic is.... A 3 piece that goes out for £150 grosses per man the same as a 5 pc £250 band, of course, but altho the 3 pieces round here might ask..and get £300... their justification is because the are full time...as if that is any justification in itself, and they are certainly not regarded as the best bands in musical terms. They seem to have had to drop their prices by and large and you can say that times are hard etc etc ... but mostly I'd say that that they have been found out.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1410095090' post='2546012'] You can go too far, 6k pa at its lowest levels with too many monitors is going to be hard to keep under control in the dog and duck ime, I've seen a pa over heat and cut out in a similar situation as the amps didn't like ticking over so low. [/quote] Those P.A weren't indoors and not at pubs, tho, I should have been clearer in what gigs they were for. Both Festivals with a 'professional' crew which makes the situation even worse. Both times, a few regulars said the sound wasn't as good as our usual sound and I said that that was largely beyond our control. Both times, the stage sound was pretty ok, so the problem was out front to the audience, I think. For pubs, we would run 2 tops and a sub which would be about 3k max, if we were ragging them, but I only run all cabs at 12 which is roughly half way up on the volume pots. I may balance the sub upwards a bit but I am just really looking for seperation and a bit of depth. I'll record most of the gigs with a Zoom h2 which is pretty forgiving and the recordings 'confirm' the better pub mix sound, IMO. What that says about the engr's of the pro outdoor rigs, I am not sure.

[quote name='ubit' timestamp='1410073244' post='2545766'] My point proved last night. Went to see a band playing in the usual place we play. PA was used just for vocals. Some songs all we were hearing was guitar as we were on his side. Bass was being lost for some of the songs. We put everything through the PA but do not turn it up to excessive levels but a perfect mix is being sent down both sides of the bar [/quote] Not as simple as this though, IMO... Some bands have no idea whatsoever so there might not be anything you can do for them. I mean...what can more simpler than self mixing...?? if you can't hear the other guys, you'd think it would be obvious someone was wrong...?? er...apparently not...!!! Out of the last 5 gigs we'd played... and 3 of them were with a dep who played too quiet, .. our best sound has been in a pub with a self mix. And 2 of those gigs were with a full, pretty well specc'd engr'd P.A.( 6k rigs so not just a couple of bins and tops ) which just shouldn't be second to a pub rig... to our self mix P.A efforts...But they defintely were.

I think I would have been a very good piano player...and a very good drummer, come to that. I think I know what you'd need to do ...having said that, you'd still need to have the little x factor which is what makes the difference, IMO.

Talking of DP mklll, I liked the recorded output of that time and I thought Glenn Hughes was a great live bass player for DP who brought the funk to Ian Paice..who was always funky watting to be let loose, but GH live vocally..???? can anyone link to a good live show of him singing because I couldn't find one ..and I spent some time looking.. I also read some of the comments on the You tube links and it was defintely a marmite subject as to whether mklll was a good or VERY bad direction..???

[quote name='ubit' timestamp='1410074186' post='2545772'] We only get £300 for a pub gig but there's a band who have started undercutting everyone else and playing for £150 which is annoying every other band who have always had an unwritten rule to charge similarly. I suppose it's up to them but we feel that it's kind if cheating to get more gigs [/quote] £300 is good money and a band that will undercut to that degree is desperate to get gigs. But if they are only worth £150 then they aren't going to be much of a problem and you may well get a LL pay that and save money to spend on better bands... We have recently come across pretty well known local bands in the county, in terms of prestige and draw, actually give half the tickets away to get a 'sell-out' of the venue, or to get a headline slot, they played for free. I would laugh at this ..but I also know it to be true, so that rather lets those bands down, IMO...

We price for 2x45. Fee is £280-300 but we will do a local cool pub we want to do for £250 starter price...but sometimes you have to be realistic that that is the top price they can go to. We don't do pubs for the money as we always say they are too much work for any hassle gig so we pick the ones we want to do. We aim to start from 21:00 but they let us pick the exact time as we aren't cheating them out of any minutes. If we are waiting for a few more people then might go to 21:30 or a tad later. We'll aim to stop by 12:00 almost everywhere. Both sets are geared to 45mins or so, but we'll get asked to play a few extra, and we have catered for it. We finish very strongly and don't leave much behind so we can only play an extra 3 songs, max..

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1409989309' post='2545142'] haha i wont bother pushing them any more for a gig then - been emailing/phoning them for two years now offering our musicular services [/quote] I think you should get to play a pub during the year...and then those pubs tend to make up their Hop fest bills from the people who play there and are known to their customers..??

[quote name='tonyclaret' timestamp='1409949455' post='2545004'] You got a bag? I might sell mine if you're interested. [/quote] I might be interested in an Aguilar bag

[size=5][sub]I would talk to Newtone to see if there are any issues with the tension the neck has to take.[/sub][/size] [size=5][sub]Also, be careful with the cab you are going to put it thru[/sub][/size]

GS112's are great cabs with a lot of depth. Some say they are scooped ..and I'd agree with that in a good way. The only reason I moved mine on was because I wanted more mids in them but they were fantastic for me when I had new strings on. I went for Bergs 12's which have more mids but they can't compete with the low end of the GS112's. IME. I far prefer ceramics to all the NEO's I've used but suspect I am in the minority if people put weight first.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1409913085' post='2544502'] But from the promoter's perspective, they ARE figuring it out . . . by asking bands to share gear. [/quote] Yep...and they may construct the bill on the basis that one band is willing to get there earlier than everyone else, get all the gear in and set-up and then wait around until everything has finished to take it down and drive home, sometimes hours away. How desperate do you have to be to 'headline' this type of event..?? Have we even mentioned money ??

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1409853240' post='2544015'] There is only one or two major agencies in Milwaukee. I will tell you they provide top notch lighting and sound, they also control all of the higher profile, higher paying sponsored gigs in town. For example all the Harley Davidson and Miller events go to these agencies. These agencies also own some of the larger stages at our large fairs, for example WI State Fair. Blue [/quote] Sounds ok.... so now depends on the finer detail of the work once you have reconciled their credentials.. You going for it?

I ran a 212 at 8 and a 210 at 8 and the 210 struggled as the amp could deliver 750 into 4. I wasn't max'ed out on the volume but I may have been pushing the amp a bit, but I could hear the 210 struggle. I changed the 212 for a 4 and run that with a 210 at 8. The amp can run down to 2 and I don't hear the 210 struggle or bottom out now. I don't really LOVE the 212 at 4 over the 212/8 version I had as a standalone but the 210 paired with the 212 does really well. The 210's are elevated a bit more than 2x210's and I really like the bite this combo has. The thinking is 212/600w at 4 Plus 210/350w at 8 is a better load balanced rig... If you want to copy this, make the 410 4 ohms to run with 210/4 but you then need a very good amp to go below 4 ohms.

I'd say the EBS with Classic cabs may struggle but depends on your version of loud. What are the gtrs gigging..?? I doubt either will have enough balls, tbh... but they may just get there in terms of volume

However, they may regard image as quite a factor. They've asked for it so you will probably have to comply or rule yourself out of the gig.