zbd1960

...it had crossed my mind... 😂. Having recently replaced both my alto and tenor saxes, I need to feign restraint for a little while....

I’ve been around for a while, but dropped out due to loads of issues with trying to find a teacher etc. Experienced amateur musician playing cello in orchestras, so used to performing in groups. Also have a lot of experience as a choral singer. I also play sax in various groups. Mostly tenor can can do baritone and alto. So I’ve got no probs reading music (currently working in grade 7 theory). But playing bass I’m a novice as I’ve never played any sort of guitar. Would like play in something like a big band and jazz group. Live in north Shropshire - about 20 miles south of Chester.

I like Renaissance music, so quite partial to 4/2 and 6/2. If you want a hard time counting, I can recommend trying to sing the opening page of Bernstein's Chichester Psalms, virtually every bar is different before it settles over the page into 7/4...

The wind band I play with has 4 percussionists at most gigs and rehearsals: drum kit, timps plus two to hit/smash/wallop assorted toys such as glockenspiel etc. The amount of schlepping to get stuff in and out of the venue is significant, especially if there are stairs. They've got quite a hard job, especially with arrangements that bands play as it is not the 'four square' sort of stuff. Now volume is another issue...

[quote name='GarethFlatlands' timestamp='1477240385' post='3160788'] Well the trombone is pitched to Bb so you're playing a Bb when the sheet music tells you it's a C. I never got why brass instruments did that, used to drive me nuts when I played trumpet. [/quote]In brass bands yes, but not in orchestras...

I'm a cellist, not a double-bassist, but I would suspect lack of rosin. Does the bow skitter over the strings? That indicates lack of consistent grip, which means either lack of rosin, or the hair is worn. You can get it if the strings get caked with rosin, which is why you need to clean the string by giving them a rub with a clean dry cloth after playing. Now if you were talking underhand baroque grip on a violone... This vid is violone played with a baroque bow: [url="https://youtu.be/CunZ_ciJ6bI"]https://youtu.be/CunZ_ciJ6bI[/url] And this one is played with an underhand bow, but nearer to Renaissance style bow: [url="https://youtu.be/hbYfSAtuR6E"]https://youtu.be/hbYfSAtuR6E[/url]

I'm not up to gigging on bass yet, but I will if the opportunity arises. I would probably go for jazz or similar as I'm not a rock/pop sort of guy. I have done loads (hundreds) of concerts/gigs with my other instruments and voice so live performance is something I'm used to.

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1476033682' post='3150656'] Music theory just baffles me after you get past the rudimentary stuff. Modes, for example, complete mystery. Keys, chord tones and some other little bits and bobs is my limit. But then I've never really been in a situation where knowing any more would have been helpful...other band members would have just looked at me blankly if I'd been asking more in depth stuff. It's a struggle to get guitarists to tell you what chord they're playing let alone anything else. I wouldn't want the gigs that require a better theory knowledge though, or the ones that require you to read, they just don't interest me. People like what I do, I get the gig. If it ain't broke... [/quote] As someone said earlier in this thread, a lot of theory is much easier if you have a keyboard to hand as it makes things much easier to 'see' as well as hear. I think modes is one of those, since if you play a scale of C, then see and hear what happens as you play a scale starting on each degree of the scale, it becomes really obvious what modes are and how they work. Agree with the comment about jazz theory 'monsters' - I tend to think it is often excessive and I'm not always sure it's that helpful

Hello Whereabouts in north Wales? I'm only a mile from the border in north Shropshire...

It's worth making some noise. My limited experience is that some attention is paid and despite sometimes justified levels of cynicism, they try to do the right thing, sometimes. I think we are seeing a problem created by the 'need' post crash to encourage local development which does seem to have given council's the idea to authorise stupid developments which previously would have been turned down flat.

I saw 'All Star Big Band' on Friday in Stockport Plaza. I think it was a scratch band for the event. Lead tenor sax was Mike Hall who is the head of jazz at RNCM and 1st alto was Rob Buckland. There was an unflappable guy (Dave Turner) on bass (both DB and electric). Extremely good

Toft's are dealers, hence the mark-ups, but they are open to haggling. I got my first cello from them. There's the big workshop at the back with I think three luthiers. A friend bought a nice violin there and with haggling got the price down nearly 30%. They have separate 'rooms' for cellos, violins, basses...

[quote name='scalpy' timestamp='1475994790' post='3150232'] Sounds like The Film Orchestra with Ed Malpas! Must admit I find it bizarre that any number of people will bang on about off axis response of cabs, how to link 3 drive pedals together or why they need a bass that's got a neck 1/16th of an inch thinner than another- but are quite happy not to be bothered how their music works! [/quote]Indeed it was - I've done several gigs with them on cello. I play in one of the smaller groups on tenor sax as well. I'd do more with them, but I'm the wrong end of Shropshire for it to be easy

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1475958596' post='3150143'] Exactly, it all opens doors for you. I came to bass playing via playing violin at school, then classical guitar. I had weekly lessons for both instruments, learning to read etc. When it came to playing bass, I expected to be given charts to read from, it never occurred to me that you could play any other way. [/quote]I know

I also play cello and tenor sax. The music world isn't very large and I've had a few calls over the last couple of years to dep in various concerts for several orchestras (I should be doing one tonight in Kidderminster, but I decided I needed a rest). Now, I don't want to imply I'm a genius, I'm not - I'm around grade 6 or 7 on cello, but my sight-reading is pretty good (because I'm an experienced choral singer and used to reading lots of stuff). I've done a lot of theory (because I like doing it). The end result is I can go to one of these gigs and do a decent job - I'm not being held back by my reading and the theory means I'm not thrown by weird things happening (e.g. odd time signatures or performance direction e.g. bowing spiccato or col legno as happened with a piece of Piazolla recently ([url="https://youtu.be/dMXoyJ8P1oE"]Tangazo[/url])). But, that's me.

What is called 'theory' is a mixture of things. Part of it you might describe as 'mechanicals' - it's for example, how we define things like keys. That is so that we know what we are working with and also it provides a common 'language' so that musicians can talk to each other and stand some chance of understanding each other. Other apsects of theory are around the practice and style of music. The various styles/genres have their rule sets, which are part of the characteristics which define those genres. The rule sets are different for the different styles, which is why a piece of high baroque written in 1735 is different from a piece of early baroque from 1610, which is different from Beethoven, 1920s jazz, blues, or 1950s rock n roll. The rule sets affect the harmonies which are used and how they are used. Palestrina would never have used an unprepared dissonance, nor a tertiary modulation like Beethoven. Can you play music without understanding or knowing what a Neopolitan sixth or a teriary modulation is? Yes, of course you can. Does having some undertsanding of how it hangs together have benefits and likely to be helpful with your playing? Yes. The language analogy is a good one. You won't be surprised to learn that I like to know and undertsand the grammar and I'm currently trying to find the time to sit grade 7 music theory...

I only found out after my dad died (I was 50) that he had played tenor horn in bands. He showed no interest or encouragement to me. My gran taught me some basics of piano playing. I was 33 before I started doing any music stuff (that's when I started having lessons). When I started performing in concerts etc my dad was never very interested, very odd.

'Generic' big music shops are a problem. Music is one of those areas that needs some expertise as it's not like buying white goods. Whether it's a beginner's violin package or a guitar and amp, there's a lot about what suits the individual, the budget, set-up, the purpose/intention etc. Sadly, most stores aren't prepared to pay to get decent staff, so go with students looking for part-time jobs who are 'interested' in music. Since training, whether in sales methods, customer care, or product knowledge, costs money, that also is not done. The result is by and large poor service, unless you are lucky enough to get someone more clued up. The independents are usually better as the owner tends to be more hands-on and knows that reputaton and service are important. The trouble is the big stores will loss-lead on the mass market stuff and this makes it hard for the independents to survive. Then there's the internet...

[quote name='Funky Dunky' timestamp='1475231610' post='3144187'] I received an email from the Glasgow shop this morning to say that the email informing me of the impending arrival of my amp of choice was a generic one (even though it was addressed "Dear Duncan" and signed by a named member of staff) and that no, my amp of choice would not be coming in soon and if I want one it has to be a special order. No apology, no sorry for the confusion, just a general tone of "tough titty, mate". They will therefore never see a pound of my money. I have expressed sufficient interest, they more or less lied to me, didn't apologise, weren't polite and, it seems, don't much care about trying to get the sale. I understand they can't necessarily order something in on spec, but the whole back and forth has been very shabby, so I'll take my money elsewhere. [/quote]I suspect some genius has set-up an auto-reply e-mail system, with a mail-merge to 'personalise' the response so it appears you're getting service when you're not.

Ok, interesting... I'll declare up front I'm left-handed, but play right-handed, more on that in a moment. Picking up a few points, 'sinister' is Latin for 'left' and 'dextra' is the word for 'right' (hence dexterity, dextrous etc). I have a pair of left-handed kitchen scissors - they make life much less painful (if you're right handed, try using a decent sized pair of right-handed scissors with your left hand). I'm one of those people who seems 'mixed up' when it comes to 'handedness' and I've recently twigged soemthign about it that's veyr interesting, but don't know its significance. I am right-handed at playing bass, cello, golf, cricket (bat), ten pin bowling, bowls (not done that for decades). I am left handed at any tennis/squash etc, bowling cricket balls, writing, use of mouse etc. I can use scissors in either hand, but easier with left. OK here's the interesting point: all my right-handed activities are below the waist and all my left-handed ones are waist height or above. For reference, I am right eye dominant. Some people are very 'handed' and find it difficult to use the other hand. For example, violin family instruments (violin, viola, cello, DB) are not generally available in LH form as the instruments are not symmetrical - you can't just reverse the stringing. The belly is not uniformly shaped, the fingerboard is asymmetrical, the bass bar is on one side, the bridge is not symmetrical etc. This means that even if you are left-handed, you will be expected to play 'right-handed'. If you insisted on a LH instrument, they are not easy to find - certainly in the UK. You could have one made to order and that would present you with at bill around £10k. I have a friend who is very left-handed and they are trying to learn violin and they find it very unnatural. It doesn't give me a problem at all on cello or bass and as my fine motor control is in my left hand, it probably gives me an advantage.

There's a saying which goes along the lines of 'we can't all lead the orchestra'. I was in my 30s before I took up music-making and started off singing (classical). I'm a competent choral bass baritone, I can sight-read to a decent standard and I've sung in some prety prestigious gigs. I sometimes get asked to dep with chamber choirs singing at cathedrals. I'm good at choral singing however, I have no desire to be a soloist. Roll forwards to my 50s and I decided to take up cello and sax at the same time (more or less). I had done some cello at school. I am nowhwere near as good a player as I am a singer (I'm about G7 on cello and G3 on sax). But I play with various orchestras, bands and ensembles and people pay to hear me play... Now I'm trying BG. I'm a rank beginner, but last week the swing band I play tenor sax in was short of anyone to play the bass, so I took my bass along and had a go. I simplified the parts, sticking stuff in on the main beat and avoiding trying anythign twiddly. Some people never try - they sit at home and never play with others because they're 'not good enough'. Both my sax teacher and cello teacher like the fact that I'm prepared to 'have a go' and join groups and play. So many never do. So, if you play with a group for your own pleasure, there's nothing wrong with that - you're doing a lot more than millions of others. It's infinitely preferable to a night of soap operas and worse.

That would be 1971 for me. I started buying classical LPs then. Started playing cello at school the following year, but after that would then not play again until in my 50s. BG was 45 years away...

Agree, sounds like you found a very precise resonance with the stage and/or room.

As a cellist, there are some differences with different brands of rosin. I agree I don't think the summer/winter choices are very relevant in our climate in the UK. Some rosins are harder or softer and some more or less sticky. These days I use Melos which is about £15, I don't particularly like Hidersine. The stuff with gold flakes etc in it is just a gimmick.

It is remarkable how unaware some people can be. I play in an informal sax ensemble - we only meet once a month for a few hours. It is aimed at relatively new players. The group is quite mixed. Some are relatively new players who are keen to learn and in the 18 months we've been meeting, they have made tangible progress e.g. better timing and rhythm. One player who allegedly 'plays by ear' (specifically in his case I think that means 'can't be bothered to read') is all over the place. His timing is awful, his rhythm is dire, he has two dynamic levels: loud and not playing. I seem to have acquired the role of 'leading' this group. Every suggestion about dynamics, blend, listening to other parts is entirely lost. Last month he was away and the difference was immense. Unfortunately, because of the nature of this group, I can't throw him out, however much I would like to. In the case we have from the OP, the best suggestion is to record some rehearsals and make a point of critically reviewing the recording in rehearsal, asking members what they thought was 'good' and what they thought 'needed improvement'.