zbd1960

Cello outing - end of summer school concert playing a very interesting and tricky) piece of Piazolla - his [url="https://youtu.be/dMXoyJ8P1oE"]Tangazo[/url] It has cellos and basses growling away at the bottom at the start and livens up around 4.5 mins in. This was followed by da Falla's Seven Chansons and all of Haydn's symphony 101 (The Clock). There was plenty of stuff for DB through the week one way or another.

Hi welcome. I am very Wales adjacent - the border is 1 mile away - but it's Flintshire

something to ponder. In the classical world, in the UK 90% of all classical concerts (and it may be more than that) are performed by amateurs, mostly for no pay at all. Most groups in fact have to subsidise the costs of performing through subscriptions and fund-raising etc. I've run a number of amateur choirs. We employ pros as solosists and sometimes instrumentalists as well when orchestras are required. Almost all of the choirs associated with the big orchestras are in fact amateur - it's only groups like the Tallis Scholars which are pro. I've spoken with many pro musicians who've perfomred at gigs I've been the organiser of. They love making music and make their living from it. Most have to supplement their income by teaching etc as well. We're amateurs, but we perform to the highest standard that we can and take a very professional approach to running our concerts. I don't see that big a difference - we're all musicians playing for the love of it (definition of amateur). The pro-world is small. I don't have the capability, or the time to become either a pro-singer or a pro-cellist. As a singer I've performed in a few pro gigs at major concert venues, but mostly it's been amateur gigs organised by my choirs. As a cellist, I regularly play in concerts. I've spent a lot of time involved with the administration of amateur music. I've run two choirs and an early music group. I'm currently a trustee of an orchestra and trustee of a music education charity that runs (at present) two major courses. I would have a very low opinion of anyone who thought 'less' of amateurs just becasue they're not paid, Equally, I would think it silly to 'deride' a pro, who will have dedicated much time and money to their career. My tutor at a recent summer school is a lovely young lady who had spent 3 years at a conservatoire doing a performance degree, 2 years doing a post-graduate performance diploma and next month starts a 2 years masters degree in performance at the Royal Academy (which will cost her £12k per year). At the end of that with a mega-bill there is no guarantee she will have a career at the end of it.

As you know I'm new to bass and it will be a while before I'm up to speed and joining a group... I've just been asked if I could play the bass in a swing band - which I'd really like to and it's not the kind of hting that comes up very often. In the short term, it has struck me that I could stick a pick-up on the bridge of my cello and go electric cello (maybe with an octaver pedal?) as an interim measure until my bass playing is a bit better? So, I know nothing about pick-ups, but thought there's bound to be knowledge and info lurking in here! A quick internet hunt has shown pick-ups running from around £30 to about £400. I'm guessing cheap = poor sound/reproduction, but I coudl be wrong. Thanks

Yep, but like playing the piano - left and right hand doing different things in different rhythms. Practise separately then practise together. Initially slowly...

Pic links not working for me in either Firefox or IE

No point me commenting in the repertoire as such since I haven't a clue - wrong genre for me. But, I suspect the reason they're getting decent gigs that pay is that it's the right material for the target audience. As suggested, that's the income generator, sounds like a good networking opportuity, and kick off other projects where you can strut your stuff...

I have to agree - maybe becasue I'm a cellist but it doesn't take much of a knock to put instruments out of alignment or worse

If anyone thinks a bass hard case is hard work, try a cello in a Hiscox case (which being a cello will set you back £300 or so rather than the £100 ish for a BG case). I play another stringed instrument which is relatively delicate - the bass is cello sized and the tenor guitar sized. Because they are non-stadard instruments, the only way to get a hard case is to have one custom made (e.g. Kingham) for about £400. Needless to say I can't afford that

[quote name='ras52' timestamp='1469515840' post='3098849'] Joe is correct... zbd is an octave out! [/quote] Mea culpa. Yes, because I was thinking wrong instrument... The top string of the cello is A...

The bass is described as a transposing instrument since the note that you hear is an octave lower than the note that is written. As written, middle C is the one on the leger line that is between the A of the 5th line of the bass clef and the E of the first line of the treble clef. Seeing that, you would finger the 3rd fret of the A string (for example). The note that you would hear if you compared it to a piano is actually the C in the 2nd space on the bass clef, i.e. an octave lower. [color=#0000cd][EDIT][/color] OK MEA CULPA - I wrote the original reply here thinking cello and not BG. Cello's top string is the A belo middle C and that is what I described. If you want to play the note that sounds middle C, then you need to go an octave higher than written, which will be way up the G string..

Bottom line with me is I don't care what someone else thinks about how/if I stand sit on stage (OK, full disclosure, I've not had to do it with BG yet). The most important things are posture, stance and comfort. I've sung in probably several hundred gigs, and played cello and sax in dozens. Unless you want long-term health issues, getting posture and stance right are important and you should go with what works for you whether that is standing, sitting, or both. I'm a relative newcomer to BG but my understanding was that the 'correct' approach was to set the strap length so that it doesn't move between standing/sitting thereby ensuring consistent technique and positon? (Yes, I know thee are those who like it slung low, but I fail to understand why as the ergonomics of that are dreadful and probably building problems for the future.)

Hi

[quote name='bertbass' timestamp='1469184660' post='3096387'] Mrs Bert always wanted to play bagpipes so no expense spared, I bought her a set for Christmas one year, they cost about £60. Totally useless. Mrs Bert thought it was her not being able to get much of a sound out of them but it turns out that the cheap bagpipes are rubbish and no one can play them. You have to spend a lot of cash to get bagpipes that can actually be played. The cheap ones look good hanging on the wall as an ornament though. [/quote] Ah, BSO's then: Bagpipe Shaped Objects

[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1469141833' post='3096149'] Yep - which is great when instruments with just tuning play together - eg string quartet, horn section, choir. But when they have to play with other instruments - piano, woodwind etc everyone needs to be in tune, so stuff like piano dictates that its equal temprament. In theory a guitar could be constructed and tuned to just tuning - but its fretboard would be correct in only a handful of keys and an open tuning would need to be used. As soon as the limitation of those few keys is removed, the requirement means the frets need to be equally spaced to avoid bad clashes on certain notes. [/quote] You could, like one instrument I play, have movable frets.... which is why older music is written in a small number of related keys

[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1469116890' post='3095920'] I am assuming you mean the most common/familiar type of bagpipes - the Great Highland Bagpipe. I don't know where your research was done but they do in fact play in A mixolydian, which is obviously closely related to the scale of D major. The confusion has probably arisen because bagpipe music doesn't bother to mention that its C is actually C# and its F is actually F# - since the chanter plays only the one scale, the sharps were deemed superfluous to mention. Also, you're likely caught out by the fact that over the years, they have crept up from the quasi-standard A=440Hz tuning, to as high as A=485Hz (B flat is 465Hz I think). So you need to be careful to research this and obtain bagpipes which are designed to play at A=440. [url="http://www.hotpipes.com/tuning.html"]http://www.hotpipes.com/tuning.html[/url] should help you with tuning them - out of tune bagpipes is the main reason why people dislike them, its quite a complicated process to get them in tune!! A further complication is that the chanter is tuned to just temprament, not even-tempered, and in fact the D and G are slightly sharp, so playing in these keys will sound wrong. You may be better off with smallpipes which are designed to play in D (mixolydian). Maybe you'd be better off with a synthesiser....? [/quote]Arguably, just intonation is more in-tune that the equal temperament that we use, since ET squashes 5th slightly and makes major 3rds way too wide...but that's another story... You could go for something with a softer sound such as the Uillean or Northumbrian pipes, or a musette. As most of these things are hand-made, I don't think there will be really cheap ones around. I do know someone who makes them (and recorders).

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1468930994' post='3094396'] [/quote]Evidently the ironic nature of my post was lost in the telling

And there's me thinking it is the past tense of 'stink'; stunk is the past participle

[quote name='Bobthedog' timestamp='1468881452' post='3094083'] At this rate I could become quite the expert. Thank you. Interestingly (or not) cadence is the term cyclists use to talk about peddle rotation speed [/quote] Yes, cadence is one of those words that has a number of [url="http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/cadence"]senses[/url]...

Might be worth buying Eric Taylor's books, the 'AB Guide to Theory' volumes I and II. These are small books and cover the theory needed for the ABRSM up to grade 5. They used to be about a fiver each (OK [url="https://www.amazon.co.uk/AB-Guide-Music-Theory-Vol/dp/1854724460"]here's[/url] link). Good explanation above. Once a tonal centre has been extablished (e.g. C major) then the tonic is the 'home' and is where the music wants to return to and settle and ultimately finish. Certain chords built on other degrees of the scale, such as V - which would be G in the case of C, have a strong pull back to the tonic. The sequence of chords that lead to a close is called a 'cadence' and comes from the Italian word meaning 'to fall' and that is because the bass note in the chords in a cadence usually 'falls' to the tonic. So, in the case of a 'full close' we have chord V => chord I which is G to C and the bass would fall from the G above down to C. There are various types of 'close' (cadence) and chord V to I is one of the most common ways of ending a section or an entire piece of music. There are others.

[quote name='Maude' timestamp='1468774700' post='3093227'] No there's no sign of any cracking, just a hump which I didn't notice at first but we did a gig where the venue had a dancefloor that was lit from underneath, when my bass was lying down pre gig I saw it in the light. Now I know it's there I notice it more. It hasn't got any worse in two and half years since I noticed it and I've wondered if all doublebasses have it to a degree, but as I said I've nothing to compare it to. I don't get many issues with feedback and a tight soundpost could actually be helping this I suppose. My amplified sound is fine and I fear any improvement on acoustic sound, by having a proper setup, could give me more feedback when amplified due to a more resonant top. [/quote]I don't think it should be doing that - worth a chat with a luthier... if the humidity drops and the instrument shrinks, the pressure may get too much. Don't know much about string shops/luthiers in your neck of the woods - probably Exeter and Bristol at a guess? Long way from you I suspect. There probably are ones nearer, needs a search. I'll ask some people I know.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1468683578' post='3092651'] I'll report back, she will be doing it this week all being well, has your wood cracked or just a gentle hump formed? Mine is quite isolated to the post area, must be really tight and this humid weather has not helped I bet. I'm going to let her show me the basses they have on sale when I collect it, could be an expensive mistake! [/quote]Sounds like you were talking to Helen... She sold me my Jay Haide cello and Dorfler bow. If you talk nicely they will cut a bit of a deal. They have a bass room (and a cello room...)

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1468667367' post='3092500'] Ta mate I've just dropped it off at Tim Tofts, bit like taking a Kia Picanto into a vintage Ferrari restoration specialists! [/quote]TimTofts are good - that's where I bought my first cello. There's a really nice guy in Shrewsbury - Julian Batey - he has a shop in the centre off Dogpole I think. Real old-fashioned craftsman and he will be less expensive than Tofts. He's done some running repairs for me and he re-hairs my bows.

I'm the kind of guy that usually ends up organising stuff and over the years I have realised that there are basically two camps: those who make-it-up as they go along, and those who plan. The odds are that if you are a member of one of those clans you don't really like the other clan's way of working. There are exceptions: some people will be happy to have someone do the planning and will go with the decisions made. Personally, I dislike lack of organisation and planning and so I usually end up being involved in doing that. It is nice sometimes to turn up to an event and to have others do the organising. The only way to find out and resolve this is to talk. They aren't going to understand what you need and why if you don't tell them. Equally, they need to tell you what they're OK with. Good luck.

Wind band gig in Ludlow this evening but on tenor sax playing with The Film Orchestra