Musicman20

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1400068928' post='2450385'] I certainly hope he won't. His is virtually the only sane voice on this thread. It's starting to become like a JW prayer meeting in here. [/quote] Hahaha! Thou shalt not criticise any UK manufactured product...because...well, no idea really.

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1399999456' post='2449779'] I found an interesting copy of the Markbass Magazine from 2009 online today. The front page reads: [font=sans-serif][size=7]"100% Made in Italy[/size][/font] [font=sans-serif][size=4]The only way to maintain and grow the worldwide success of[/size][/font] [font=sans-serif][size=4]Markbass is to keep manufacturing our products in Italy, where we[/size][/font] [font=sans-serif][size=4]have full control over the entire process, from the quality of our[/size][/font] [font=sans-serif][size=4]materials to our rigorous testing procedures. We stand firm on this,[/size][/font] [font=sans-serif][size=4]despite the fact that so many other companies have moved their[/size][/font] [font=sans-serif][size=4]production to Asia, seduced by the short-term economic benefits of[/size][/font] [font=sans-serif][size=4]lower production costs.[/size][/font] [font=sans-serif][size=4]Manufacturing in Italy not only keeps us on top of our quality control,[/size][/font] [font=sans-serif][size=4]it also allows us to continuously—and quickly—innovate and refine[/size][/font] [font=sans-serif][size=4]our products.[/size][/font] [font=sans-serif][size=4]We couldn’t work this way with an offshore factory, because we’d be[/size][/font] [font=sans-serif][size=4]locked into inflexible long-term production schedules. Our products[/size][/font] [font=sans-serif][size=4]cannot afford this type of inflexibility! We’re a company with vision,[/size][/font] passion, and blah blah blah." (Don't shoot the messenger. I'm a Markbass user and I like their stuff.) [/quote] Oh dear!

Focusrite make great audio interfaces and come with software. Another option, although possibly not as good recording quality, is the Zoom B3 effects/DI/recording pedal. It's a bargain and does three jobs in one! It also comes with software.

It's great to see you so pleased coming from such classic tube amp tones.

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1400061733' post='2450270'] Yes - like the drivers for instance Which brings us back to Barefaced - design your cabs around top-notch speakers, keep them feather-light, and maybe (possibly even inevitably) cut corners on the quality of the finish. [/quote] Not doubting that their drivers are the best in the business, hence interest in the BB2

[quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1400060544' post='2450252'] You've never built a cab, have you? The finish is the messy bit! Having tried painting cabs, cloth (rat fur) covering and vinyl/tolex, you couldn't pay me enough to finish a cab for somebody else... [/quote] No, and I don't intend to as I pay others to do it! I don't think I know any musicians that I grew up with who have spent time building cabs. Guitarists are much easier to please I guess.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1400026070' post='2450080'] It seems people just don't want to let the facts about actual real-world performance stand in the way of good old brand-perception and the acceptance of lesser products that don't sound as good, but are well-finished and well-marketed. [/quote] You can of course have extremely well engineered products, with the best QC/finish/aesthetics available, all in one package. The aesthetics and fit/finish should be the easy bit!

Cheers for the info everyone!

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1400001515' post='2449801'] do you mean the new "retro" cabs or the new ten 3 stuff? I know if you start adding the cost up off buying the parts yourself, the driver that's the most similar (i know its a custom driver barefaced use), the horn and waveguide, add the cost of wood and that and it's not much different from buying a big baby 2... an that's before you've even got anywhere near building a crossover and the parts for that.... and of course you would need to know how to build it... of all the critiques of barefaced stuff I've heard "they're expensive" is one of the less convincing ones. IMO obv. [/quote] I think £699 is alright for the BB2. It doesn't put me off. I do think, and this is not an attack, that the postage for the small cabs should come down.

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1399991992' post='2449661'] Does anyone know when Markbass started fitting copies of B&C drivers rather than the real thing? [/quote] Who manufactures them?

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1399981982' post='2449531'] I've had three Shukers, two Overwaters, and a good play on several ACGs at Drew's Bass Lounge. As far as quality goes, they're all superbly built instruments, definitely a 'next step' from Fender, MMs, etc (and I've had a fair few good examples of those, too) - whether that's a step in the right direction is a very personal issue. The Overwater pickups and EQ are too modern and 'hifi' for me, but I love the shape of the Perceptions - I owned one twice, as I regretted selling it the first time, but when I got it back I quickly remembered why it wouldn't stick. Drew has a gorgeous Original shape in at the moment, but again, it's the pickups and EQ which ruled it out for me. ACGs I like as an instrument, the filter pre is extraordinary, and an acquired taste (not mine), but ultimately the shapes aren't for me, the nearest I get is the Jazz-ish ones, but I can't be doing with Jazzes or Jazz-inspired copies in any form. I love the Shuker Horn shape, though like you I didn't want to wait a year for a custom build (from anyone). I picked one of Jon's In Stock basses, and Jon made a new neck from scratch for me, fitted the pups and EQ I wanted and finished it off in less than a month. It's fantastic, and as an instrument a world away from (and above) the brand new 4003 I'd briefly owned just before it. I'd say of the three, only Overwaters have 'a sound' because of their pups and EQ being fairly standard across a range (their 'copies' of Jazzes notwithstanding), the other two are so personalised and varied that you'll find completely different basses by both luthiers. They are handmade to a spec, after all, and though the customer is always right, sometimes they result in some fairly, erm, idiosyncratic results...if you're lucky, you'll find one that suits you out of the trap... To reiterate, though: all the basses I've owned or played by Overwater, ACG or Shuker have been superb quality instruments. I've also got an Alembic, and I'd say they were all at least as well made. [/quote] Interesting! Thanks...yes I am also in the position of liking the look of the 4003, but I can't see myself parting with £1650+ for what I know I will probably be a little disappointed with.

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1399980146' post='2449507'] No-one here has tried the cabs which are the subject of this thread yet. It seems to me that the older Gen1/2 Compact, S12, Midget etc. had different design goals from the 2 and 3-way designs and the new 10" cabs are going for something different again, so playing one and not liking it doesn't necessarily reflect on the others. Also, seeing McNach's recently bought cabs in the flesh makes me think that both the woodworking and finishing have moved on since the early one-bloke-in-a-garage days, as you'd expect them to. [/quote] Absolutely, I realise that.

[quote name='Sean' timestamp='1399978186' post='2449483'] They already say exactly what they think, which was the point I was making about people giving their strong opinions on something they haven't tried. I wasn't saying that everyone who passes negative comment on BF is an idiot, just the ones who do so without having the experience of the products their commenting on. And that's my prejudiced hypocritical opinion based on having not met the posters. The heated threads were the ones that drew my attention to the cabs anyway so it's all good for business. Maybe some winking smilies would have changed the tone I intended. And the "drivel" comment was self-deprecatory for those who didn't spot that. Would you like me to spell "condescending" for you?! < as is that. [/quote] No, I think you might not have understood what I mean. As far as I know, all of the posts are from people who HAVE tried BF cabinets, in some way/form, eg bass bash, gigs, home vs other cabs, all of these, etc etc.

Overwater Basses I’ve never seen or heard an Overwater bass in the flesh. I do find this quite bizarre, considering how big I personally see the name of Overwater. What are peoples views of these basses? When I’ve been looking at the ‘next step’, as in what basses might be right for me when I’ve realised some of the everyday gear is becoming quite expensive, I look at: [list] [*]Sadowsky NYC ; [*]Overwater; [*]Shuker; [*]ACG. [/list] The Sadowsky J and P style basses are stunning, but I really don’t think I need to get just another Jazz or Precision bass. I think it might be time for something completely different. ACG have some fab designs. Shuker seems to be going strong, but I’m not sure I could handle the year turnaround as I guess with Shuker, it really is from scratch. Overwater basses don’t seem to be the hot topic at the moment, and I’m quite shocked they aren’t more popular on here. To me, looking at something like the SDS bass they designed, its like a Fodera, but less expensive, still very high quality, and still aiming for that type of instrument. Eg, pretty unique, high quality woods. I didn’t really take much interest in Scott’s lessons previously, but I’ve been checking out his playing and I must say his Overwater sounds great. Any comments/views would be great.

No idea - It also brings up the modern way of bands 'forming'. They practice over Skype/send song ideas, which is great that technology is so brilliant, but it takes the fun out of getting in a decent practice room/studio, and having a Saturday afternoon with mates!

[quote name='Sean' timestamp='1399951827' post='2449272'] As for those who pass comment and judgement without having experienced the products themselves, I can't take them seriously, they're idiots and a disgrace to the other people who post drivel on internet bulletin boards (which is what we used to call forums back in the day). [/quote] I don't think this applies to anyone in this thread, sorry.I also think this is exactly the attitude that winds people up, and means the thread gets heated. This in turn leads to people thinking: 'Right, I'll say exactly what I think'. This leads to more problems!

Spot on buyer and basschatter! Friendly, fast, trustworthy, the lot. Cheers!

I always aspired to own a Stingray after I first heard one/had sight of one. Now I own a few, at least, at once. If you want a Stingray, don't compromise. Buy a Stingray. No other bass/preamp/pickup has that raspy, bizarre and interesting tone. Virtually all of the preamp/pickup boutique copies sound somehow sterile to me. All of the HH/HS/H basses and either 2 EQ or 3 EQ will get you that tone. 2EQ vs 3EQ is slightly different, but not by much.

[quote name='Weststarx' timestamp='1399897323' post='2448704'] Ah... now I feel for you... More interested in image than music IMO... The guitarist are very technical and often play harmonics with each other - which might be why he's having trouble learning any of their songs. The bass lines are extremely dull and is just root notes, and the singer make me question my sexuality as I'm not sure whether he/she's a girl with a deep voice or a man dressed like a girl. [/quote] Awful band. This is why metal/hard rock gets such a bad name. As a few people have said to me, its almost like there isn't a big surge of bands at the moment, like we are waiting on a dip for the next big thing/ground breaking band. Nothing seems to be very exciting.

Some bass is easier. Some isn't. Learning a few Beatles songs on guitar - not so difficult. Depending on which ones! Some are two chords...whereas the bass is jumping around. The other thing that bass doesn't have as often as guitar is tube driven/overdrive tones. Yes, a lot of bassists use it, but a guitarist can cover up a LOT by using distortion or even just cranking for a hair of gain. Really high gain stuff in drop D is incredibly easy to play. Metal? Difficult? Yes, some of it definitely is difficult on bass. Some of it isn't. Emo? Emo is technically a genre born from the undergound hardcore/punk scene, when the ex members of the 80s hardcore bands wanted to do something new. It was labelled as 'emotional hardcore' because it was basically noisy/more punk version of what we call indie. Check out bands like Texas Is the Reason, Cap N Jazz, Appleseed Cast, Cross My Heart, etc. Modern 'emo' is just a term for poor over produced bad rock with kids with black side partings/whinging teenagers. As usual, the music scene ruined a fantastic genre by watering it down to awful second rate pop rock. Good 'emo' is often very loud, very melodic, often with odd time signatures, clean to loud parts, odd rhythms, etc.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1399883431' post='2448494'] Yep - I think you'll be pushed to find any Class D that doesn't have some sort of limiting circuit in place to 'simulate' a louder amp. [/quote] Aye I agree, but I think all of the modern amps, in fact all amps (?), have limiting circuits of some sort. I'm not an expert, but I know the limiter on the class A/B Markbass LM3 was pretty harsh...clamped down when the master volume was just over 12 o'clock, (more so at 8 ohms). Limiting circuits have come a long way, more so in the modern lightweight amps. You then have something like the TC amps, which is going in a completely different direction. I imagine the magic of the WA is a sum of all the well designed parts of the amps getting that 'right' tone at a pretty decent volume, in a small package. As one of the ex Genz guys is now working for Mesa, who knows what we might get!

I'd just buy a CV Squier and be done. Modern manufacturing, decent price, change the pups, boom.

The pre amp and overall design/limiting will have a much larger impact on tone and volume over the difference between two similarly rated, but different class, power amp sections.

[quote name='tom1946' timestamp='1399871139' post='2448426'] Sorry but am I alone in thinking that modern fenders are for the most part excellent? Modern electronics and manufacturing technologies are surely better than then? Having tried both I think so. [/quote] Yes, absolutely.

Those new Carvin amps look great!