jimmyb625

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1097030' date='Jan 21 2011, 01:20 AM']Then it's not a new sound. You have to stick to one position or you'll appear to be flailing. If you really don't have basic knowledge of the subject maybe all this hypothetical speculation is a bit premature? I'll give you a clue though. Any difference can be measured at the jack. If it can't it's not a difference in tone.[/quote] The wiring traces internally will take different routes depending on which selection is made (unless of course EBMM have also developed a way to have two objects simultaneously occupying the same physical space). Changing the routing will change the circuit response of the coil and the resonant frequency of it, so coil 1 in configuration A will have a different repsonse to configuration B. Does measurement affect the outcome? It's my turn to give you a clue. Yes it does. However, I don't think any of us have actually measured the output, or even played the thing, so it's all a bit academic really. [quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1097030' date='Jan 21 2011, 01:20 AM']These claims by EBMM require faith. I don't have it.[/quote] You seem to be under the impression that I'm blindly following everything they say without question. I'm not. What I am doing though, which I'll gladly admit to, is questioning an absolute.

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1096963' date='Jan 20 2011, 11:22 PM']I'm always baffled by those who claim they can hear, or assume they could hear, differences that we can't detect with lab instruments.[/quote] Which was why I suggested analysing the waveform...

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='1096786' date='Jan 20 2011, 08:51 PM']If those types of differences were enough to be audible then it would mean the actual GC circuitry was colouring the sound of the bass, something that would be generally seen as undesirable.. I am certain that the variance in your data will be far greater using an ebow than what you'd get from simply measuring electrical properties adequately - ie resolving power is greatly limited.[/quote] The differences I'm talking about would alter the resonant frequency of the circuit, not exactly colour the sound, using 1/2pi root LC. I'm not sure if it would be possible (without seeing a schematic) to measure the electrical properties within the GC.

It's nice enough, although I'm glad that the logo is only a protective cover. I think Roger must've decided that, seeing as though David Gilmour had a signature, he should get one as well .

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1095901' date='Jan 20 2011, 02:08 AM']Why ignore the electrical properties of the circuit and try to introduce too many other variables. If there is no discernible difference in the circuit you'd just be trying to mess things up enough to claim some deviation is a different tone. Saying "I wouldn't want to read any LCR values for the pickups" implies your decision is made. That's why I said buy it and enjoy it. If the tone changes are this subtle, even if they do exist, this would not be a game changer but more of a price changer. Hmm, I wonder if Sterling has ever heard the term upsell? [/quote] I think you're missing my point a little. The reason I'm not interested in the pickup LCR values, is that I know they're irrelevant. Regardless of whatever they are for each coil (and there probably will be a slight variation due to manufacturing tolerances) I [i]think[/i] that any variation that may come through will be down to the wiring route within the GC. Because internally it will pass through a variety of switches (hazzarding another guess, I'd say they are probably connected through multiplexers), I'd say that there is a potential for the values to differ depending on the routing. I'm fully aware that the variations (if they even exist) will be very small internally, but it doesn't take a major change of values to alter the fundamental frequency of the circuit. However, I've not said anywhere that I think there are differences. What I have done is pointed out that a lot of people have stated they can hear a difference. I'm fully aware that this is very subjective (as in the Pepsi Challenge) and I know if you want to hear or see something badly enough, you will. You can (subconciously no doubt) alter the style that you pick/pluck/strum the strings etc and there will also be the induced psychological effect caused by moving a switch. What I've said all along, is that I'd like to see some repeatable tests done (yes by someone, probably not me as I can't justify spending that amount of money to to prove/disprove something theoretical) so that the resultant waveforms can be analysed and compared. That was the reason for using an e-bow type of thing, as it could be mounted in place and set to generate, without requiring any user control. The only other thing I've done throughout is question your assertation that because some people have stated they can hear a difference, they are either being paid to say it, or a mindless fan. Ultimately, it's only a guitar, no one is going to die because of it.

[quote name='Grand Wazoo' post='1096032' date='Jan 20 2011, 09:44 AM']The one thing about this thread that's irritating, and which I declare is unparallel to my appreciation or less of the "gameboychanger" per-se is having to absorbe (by force feed) the spreading of the "EBMM QUARAN" from the fanbois off the ebmm forum, why must you? why here?. While one can entertain the thought of kissing Sterling Ball's ass in his forum, one must also realize that here, no one gives a peep, n'est pas?[/quote] Actually, unless I'm wrong (which is entirely possible) I haven't actually displayed any 'fanboi' tendencies. I have explained how (in my interpretation) the technology works. I've also said that some people have stated they can tell a difference between series wiring of coils and have said that I would like to see waveforms of the sounds (however, waveforms apparently are no good, no matter how they are generated). Oh the irony...

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1096024' date='Jan 20 2011, 09:39 AM']I don't see how that applies to anything you quoted What did that answer?[/quote] You have two AC voltage sources, if the waveform of one differs from the other (which is very possible, unless you have 0% manufacturing tolerance) there's the potential for a difference. I don't deny the physics of series circuits, all I am saying is that I would like to see a comparison of the waveforms. I've not actually stated whether I think there's a difference or not, I'm keeping an open mind until I've seen it for myself.

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1095901' date='Jan 20 2011, 02:08 AM']Why ignore the electrical properties of the circuit and try to introduce too many other variables. If there is no discernible difference in the circuit you'd just be trying to mess things up enough to claim some deviation is a different tone. Saying "I wouldn't want to read any LCR values for the pickups" implies your decision is made. That's why I said buy it and enjoy it. If the tone changes are this subtle, even if they do exist, this would not be a game changer but more of a price changer. Hmm, I wonder if Sterling has ever heard the term upsell? [/quote] Because, it's not just a resistive circuit.

[quote name='Johnston' post='1095988' date='Jan 20 2011, 09:08 AM']I actually said a '51 P-bass trying to be sarcastic as it is a single coil pup. (Plus a Fender product not EBMM)[/quote] Yeah, I know bugger all about P-Basses, which is how I managed to make the pickup 2 coils!! (that's the reason why I hardly ever make any posts about other basses!)

[quote name='dlloyd' post='1095873' date='Jan 20 2011, 12:51 AM']I don't really have time to watch these videos, but I'm genuinely interested in what's upset you here. What exactly was said about the comparison between the two? What claims were EBMM making about the comparison between the two things (i.e. 1,2 in series as opposed to 2,1 in series)? Did they say you can or should be able to tell the difference between the two?[/quote] [quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1095878' date='Jan 20 2011, 12:57 AM']Yeah, they did. We also have a claim of 16 tonal variations with just 2 coils but that just may be hyperbolic inertia in the populace acting as a multiplier.[/quote] [quote name='dlloyd' post='1095885' date='Jan 20 2011, 01:09 AM']What [i]exactly[/i] did they say?[/quote] [quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1095889' date='Jan 20 2011, 01:19 AM']That's from an earlier post in this thread [/quote] [quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1095895' date='Jan 20 2011, 01:36 AM']So your asking me to tell me what you said? I don't understand the point of that. And you're telling me about tests done in the way you'd do it but you say you haven't seen any and want to see some done? At this point I'd say buy one and enjoy all the different tones [/quote] My post was in relation to this stream of conversation, clarifying the details of what I said earlier for the benefit of dlloyd. For the second point, yes, I'd like to see the results of some testing. I wouldn't want to read any LCR values for the pickups, I'd want to see waveforms, prefereably overlaid, of the two sound samples. The reason for using something like an e-bow would be to limit potential variations caused by picking.

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1095891' date='Jan 20 2011, 01:28 AM']No, any playing and or listening test done by EBMM or a fanboy is as valid as a psychic telling you about their successes. I've made the claim 3+2 is better than 2+3 and explained why. It makes sense. No one has proved me wrong. Adding an ebow is a waste of time, simply measure the resistance and capacitance of the coils and show a predictable and repeatable change based on the order of the coils. Then try to explain how changing the order of 2 identical coils changes the sound. Then place $40 in an envelope and address it to... I need to change my math example to make it more applicable, 3+3 is better than 3+3. [/quote] Are you referring to me here?

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1095889' date='Jan 20 2011, 01:19 AM']That's from an earlier post in this thread [/quote] Yes, I gave the combinations based on how I believe the switching options have been calculated. Based on 2 coils, I said there were 16, which included 1&2, 2&1, 1//2 and 1 and 2 separately. This was done in response to another poster wondering on the variations that could be obtained from a P-Bass. The decision to split the coil into two was mine, based on the assumption that it's possible to do it, regardless of how it sounds. If you check the vids on the EBMM site, Steve Morse has said that there is a tonal difference (doesn't count though) and on the main forum there is a post from Pete DuBaldo saying that he tested the different series combinations and he heard a difference (also probably doesn't count, as he's a 'fanboy'). I'd just like to see a test of it.

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1095864' date='Jan 20 2011, 12:41 AM']No need, it's already covered by basic science. What's the difference in 3+2 or 2+3? Hint: the difference is subtle but 3+2 gives a more solid 5 as it's building on a larger foundation and the 3 can support the 2 much better than the other way around leading to a more musical and round 5. More complex science has also shown that anyone who believes there will be a difference will hear it when given the visual cue. It's similar to the counting horses in a way.[/quote] I never really was much good with science. I couldn't work out if light was a wave, or particles. Anyway, like I said, it will be good to do a comparison on one. It should be pretty straightforward to look at the waveforms of the two, you could use something along the lines of an ebow to generate the note, removing any possible picking variation.

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1095044' date='Jan 19 2011, 12:42 PM']Really, is there anything that some expert salesman can't hear?[/quote] Well, it wasn't a salesman, it was one of those musicians with no integrity... The good thing though, is that with the GC you can program two presets, eg 1&2 in preset position 1 and then 2&1 in preset 2. It should be a pretty straightforward test to measure the signal produced at each preset position. I've no idea whether there will be a difference or not, but I'd like to see the results.

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1094891' date='Jan 19 2011, 10:33 AM']Some of those are imaginary Unless you can hear which way electricity flows through a coil. The first 2 are like saying 3+2 is different than 2+3. That's not to say that some can't hear it [/quote] Yes, some people have said that they can tell a difference, you saw that in the video.

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1094878' date='Jan 19 2011, 10:27 AM']Everyone in those videos has. Your statement is a bit confusing as it has a ? on the end. Why do so many musicians think businessmen would never do things to them that all the other businessmen do?[/quote] Yeah, I just wanted to make sure I'd understood what you'd said. Is that why the same people said the same thing at NAMM? I might have mis-interpreted you here, but to my mind, it sounds like you are saying that the opinions of all of these artists can be bought.

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='1094867' date='Jan 19 2011, 10:14 AM']As in soloed coils? Surely on a split-pickup P, if you solo a coil you'll effectively be switching off 2 strings? Could be useful for punk bassists, I suppose. *dons tin hat to protect from the incoming black/black/maple Precisions*[/quote] Have you heard the way I play??? Just because it's possible, doesn't mean it'll sound good, in fact I'm pretty sure that in the full scale GC there will be a fair few combinations that don't sound so hot.

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1094731' date='Jan 19 2011, 02:44 AM']That's the whole point of paid testimonials. They're buying that faith and applying it to the product. It works almost all the time. It's like believing cops won't lie in a courtroom or in another sense why guys won't give criticism to girls they're trying to have sex with.[/quote] Ok, so you think everyone who has gone on record and said good things about it has only done so because they're being paid? [quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1094738' date='Jan 19 2011, 03:23 AM']Series, parallel and...[/quote] Series 1&2, series 2&1, parallel, coil 1, coil 2 with combinations of each coil forward and reverse phase.

[quote name='Johnston' post='1094520' date='Jan 18 2011, 09:54 PM']How many options will it give on a '51 P [/quote] If you split the two coils, 16.

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='1093470' date='Jan 18 2011, 08:54 AM']Seems like a solution to an unknown problem to me. I'm racking my brains as to why you would need this... So far the reasons for getting this are - 1. Because you can - bragging rights? But seriously, the only thing I can think of where it may come in useful is if you have recorded a track in a studio and need to do a punch in or edit at a later date. This system would allow you to recall the exact settings. To be honest though, I would hope that you know your bass to the extent where you can pull out the sounds you need with a few instinctive twiddles on the fly... Out of all the combinations that are bragged, how many of those can you really hear the difference? Certainly one I would like to try out for myself at least![/quote] Well, one of the things is that, short of re-wiring your bass, do you know every tone that it has in there anyway?

[quote name='sshorepunk' post='1093347' date='Jan 18 2011, 12:12 AM']Still think they should have doen a fretless[/quote] Yep, I'd love to try a fretless one, can't justify the price tag for a US version.

[quote name='Chopthebass' post='1092981' date='Jan 17 2011, 07:25 PM']I reckon a lot of the sounds will have subtle differences and in a live situation you won't hear the differences between a lot of them. I bet you could count the number of decent tones you can get out of it on one hand. Another post-NAMM gimmick![/quote] Well, you've got a selection of active and passive tones available, 5 of each that you pre-program in for use, giving 10 that are stored at any one time. Sure, a lot of the sounds will have only subtle differences. As far as hearing the difference in a live situation, I don't doubt it, but be honest, in a live situation, how many of your average punters can tell the difference between one bass and the other? [quote name='Marvin' post='1093265' date='Jan 17 2011, 10:57 PM']All far too complicated for a yokel like me. I'm still struggling to figure out how to put new batteries in this 'ere wireless mouse. Is it me or do wireless mice just look wrong? Having no wire their tail isn't there[/quote] Wireless mice are just wrong, nothing to swing them by. I reckon it will be as difficult as getting photos from a digital camera. [quote name='TomKent' post='1093281' date='Jan 17 2011, 11:08 PM']I think there's a thing you can fit in Strats which is a mini computer, makes your tone 'super phat'. My luthier mentioned it ages ago. Maybe this uses the same sort of technology? He said it was literally a mini computer haha.[/quote] In some ways it's similar to a computer. My understanding of it is that it's a microprocessor based switching system, but switching is all it does at the moment, the signal path is not affected by the GC.

[quote name='RhysP' post='1091879' date='Jan 16 2011, 09:45 PM']Pre CBS Stingrays?[/quote] They're rare beasts indeed!!

I'm going to suggest you try a Bongo, just because I'm weird like that!

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='1090900' date='Jan 15 2011, 09:41 PM']I think the main negative is a response to the way the product is presented, which we can each judge according to our own tastes! EBMM's style there reminds me a lot of Mackie, if you've ever read any of their product manuals you'll probably know what I mean. Assuming I've understood what it does correctly then I think you can get quite a long way with conjecture since pickup phase and series-parallel switches are nothing new. If I was a guitarist then I'd be drooling over the idea of retrofitting this to an HSS strat! As a bass player though, I can't see it being a big success, especially given the utter lack of love for the old s1 switch which I felt added a really useful tonal option to the already versatile jazz bass.[/quote] Have you seen how many "Game Changers" are around at the moment? They're everywhere, it's downright confusing I tell you. Even Behringer have changed the game apparently, although there are unconfirmed rumours that the game they've changed it to bears an uncanny resemblence to the old one.... One thing I think would be quite cool, would be to split each coil into two, so you could get a sort of pseudo P-Bass configuration. in various body positions. Bugger, should have patented that before suggesting it!