LukeFRC

[quote name='mckendrick' timestamp='1360631736' post='1973868'] I think Fender Japan didn't organise into an independent concern until 1984. Although Fender branded product was produced from 1982 I think it was still under the Fender USA umbrella to supply the US market until post-CBS Fender USA picked up in '84 under the leadership of BIll Schultz. Summat like that. . [/quote] I don't really follow this (it is late mind) according to the info (and photo of the announcement) on 21frets.com Fender Japan Co. Ltd was formed March 11 1982 - the site you linked too seems to suggest that Fender japan was formed to stand in for Fender USA for a few years - but (again 21frets as my source) many of the early Fender Japan stuff was for the japanese market or lower end stuff (i.e. JV squier) for USA and Europe - yes a lot of them are very good but I think this was coincidental rather than an attempt to replace Fender USA for a while- if that makes sense. I mean did Fender badged Japanese instruments even get exported to the states in the early 80's at all? I like Japanese Fenders, a lot. I think they can be some of the best and most consistent fenders you can buy - but their is this odd mythologising of them - like how many times have we all read (as in that article) that the JV, SQ and some E series japanese Fenders used lots of Fender USA parts.... which would be nice.... and some of the first JV model strats seem to have usa pickups... but the wider idea that well of course they "all used them", without saying which parts, which ranges and for how long, and where the evidence for that is. There seems to be this desire (perhaps understandable from people trying to sell them) to coinflate everything that says Fender Japan on it with the very best of what Fender Japan makes - an equivalent would be to sell a half decent Fender USA bass with a description of the top of the range custom shop bass they make. Yes there are links but that doesn't make them the same/equal. ... on the whole great basses though!

[quote name='mckendrick' timestamp='1360628659' post='1973840'] Quote..... [i]"[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Among the Fender Japanese guitars, there were two different logos used: [b][i]Crafted in Japan [/i][/b]and [b][i]Made in Japan, [/i][/b]and both were being made at the same time from 1994 till 1997. This means that the the serial numbers starting in 1994 ran consecutively on both the MIJ and the CIJ models while the MIJ logo was being phased out. Mid–1997 the CIJ logo was the only one used on Fender guitars coming out of Japan (with exception the Squire series). [b]There are several theories about why some Japanese Fenders have MIJ and others CIJ[/b]. One is that there was a reorganizing of where the parts were being make in the large, expansive [i]Fugi Gen Gakki[/i] company. The island of Matsumoto is where the Fugi plant is located. It houses 15-20 different smaller companies, Like [i]Kawi, Gen Gakki Ten, Yamara, Gotoh, Yamoto, [/i]etc. I was told by a former Fender Rep that the necks were made one place and the bodies another, while the electronics were made in yet another. I was told that the contract with [i]Yamoto[/i] stated if any major subcontractor was to be changed the weaning process would have to take place (MIJ to CIJ). They call it the “Squire countdown.” Since [i]Fuji[/i] was pressing hard to get the Epiphone contract, a change was made. [i]Kawi[/i] was moving the bulk of their piano building to a new facility in China, and would also be making their own “harp” frames there. This freed up a lot of space in the plant. [i]Yamara[/i] and [i]Gotoh[/i] retooled to handle the woodwork and finish aspects of the guitars—thus the [b]Crafted in Japan[/b] line was created. [b]The other story is, and maybe both are true and run consecutively,[/b] I really don’t know, but the MIJ logo Fenders were for the USA market. USA Fender wanted to stop the import of these guitars to the USA due to firing up their Mexican plant and due to the “too good” quality Japan was creating which competed with the USA models."[/font][/i] [font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]From; [url="http://xhefriguitars.com/page9.html"]http://xhefriguitars.com/page9.html[/url][/font] [/quote] interesting website that... seems to suggest fender japan started in late 1984. Which is odd, as my JV was made in 1982....

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1360624106' post='1973758'] It was Fuji Gen that made the MIJ's (as a JV owner I thought you'd know that ). They also made some of the Grecos, so maybe that's where the confusion comes from. I think it's Tokai and Dyna that makes the CIJ's, though the first ones appeared in parallel with MIJ's around 92-97 I think. It has been speculated that Fuji Gen had something in their contract that specified they were the makers of 'MIJ' instruments. It's also speculated that the return of 'MIJ' basses means they are making the Japanese stuff now. I'm not entirely sure where these theories came from, but it's on the internet, so must be true. Speaking of 'true' stuff on the internet, the wikipedia Fender Japan page has all this info just so anyone can fill their boots with the latest rumours. [/quote] ahh... cos of course Greco is just a brand.... man, Bassassin would shoot me if he were still around!

[quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1360620311' post='1973660'] It does. Cheers! [/quote] so your '62ri ... probably has the spiral bridge and will be a higher end model made of alder. i.e. a good one.

It's bollocks - Fender used to use a couple of factorys to build their basses - the first was Greco I think (but don't quote me on that) and from 1982-97 they used Made in Japan. In 97 I think it swiched to another producer who used "Crafted in Japan" - until 2007,2008 when they start using Made in Japan again - probably another factory. The fender website lists more Made in japan from 2010-2011 from yet another factory for certain models. So thats the reason for the switch... different suppliers. So why do I think it's all bollocks ebay sellers language? Well mainly because you rarely hear of a bad Fender bass - wether MIJ or CIJ and that if there is a difference I suspect it's so minimal that it's both not as big as variation from bass to bass, and not worth worrying about one bit. They will both be decent basses. But.... Some japanese Fender were made to export (like the Geddie Lee model) and some were made for the japanese market. Which is better? Well the best guitars that Fender Japan make are for the japanese market. And also the worst guitars Fender Japan make are for the japanese market.... they make a range of qualities for their market - from cheaper basic models to top of the range vintage reissues and even the japanese version of a custom shop... and of course that's changed over the years too! So in conclusion. The fact that it's MIJ or CIJ, made for export or made for import tells you very little about how good it is or how high up the range it is- just that it was made in japan. Hope that helps!

Fender American Vintage series. Either '57ri or 62ri actually Ive not heard a bad word about the pino signature P

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1360604172' post='1973195'] A further update for those not remotely interested. Band 1 ( the 'learn 15 songs for an audition' lot) cancelled for the third week in a row. Bandleader then admitted he was finding it difficult to get in touch with 2 of the existing band and it would have to be him, me and the drummer working on original material. As this was miles away from what I signed up for I politely bailed out at this juncture. Band 2 meanwhile (the 33 song set list band) now looking like they need a dep guitarist if their next gig in 2 weeks time is going to happen. Considering their last gig was cancelled at short notice I'm beginning to wonder if all is OK with that band too. maybe I should just start looking around again from scratch, a lot of wasted time burning the midnight oil cramming in a lot of practice for nothing so far. It's never straight forward is it? [/quote] Do you know a decent guitarist? Go along as a pair. If they are good go for it... if not all you need is a drummer and you have a band yourself!

it says LADO on the headstock - google it and you see pictures of similar basses...

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1360596357' post='1972995'] Before: After (refinish done by Rich - Ou7shined): [/quote] although the refinish is much much better I can't help wondering what the button is for....

[quote name='lettsguitars' timestamp='1360596602' post='1973003'] This thread does seem unnecessary really. [/quote] yep.

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1360510101' post='1971421'] I think it's about proportion. If I went off to a car boot sale and picked up a pre CBS Fender Jazz Bass for £20, cleaned it up, stuck a new set of string on it and then flogged it on here for £400 would there still be a complaint because I'm making 20x what I paid for it? As long as a price is fair (and that will undoubtedly be assessed by potential buyers) then I don't really see a huge problem. If it's not fair then it just wont sell - that's how sales work. [/quote] I would not complain at all, thank you. do you want to do paypal or bank transfer? [quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1360510567' post='1971432'] I have never bought or sold a bass on Basschat , but back in the days when I had less money than I do now I bought and sold loads of used basses , mainly out of neccessity . Some I broke even on , some I lost money on , some I made a modest profit on . The crucial thing is to be[u] honest [/u]with people and let them make their mind up made up based on truthful and accurate information about what you are selling .Things have a market value , and if someone sells a bass under the market value because they need or want to realise the cash value of their asset ( i.e the bass ) quickly then it is not neccesarilly unscrupulous or immoral for the person who has bought the bass cheaply to try and get the full market value of the bass . I agree wholeheartedly that , I would sincerely hope at least , the spirit of Basschat is one of genuine enthusiasts who want to go out of their way to be fair and helpful to each other - that is certainly the way I would want to conduct any business of my own on here - but ultimately if people think a seller is being exploitative then , as others have said , no one is forcing anyone to buy from them . [/quote] good answer there Dingus [quote name='Musky' timestamp='1360513923' post='1971514'] Good to hear. I was about to say I thought this is exactly what the Affiliates forum was for. If someone is one here to trade then that should be made absolutely clear. AFAIK dealers have to declare themselves when selling secondhand cars (and for all I know other products) and there are laws that apply to dealers that don't to private sellers. If someone whats to deal on these boards they should be posting in the appropriate section. [/quote] there are some folk on here who have a higher turnover of basses than many dealers! [quote name='Johngh' timestamp='1360586280' post='1972655'] The only time I think it's acceptable to sell a bass on for more that a member paid for it is if new strings have been added or if a bass has been bought and then had some luthier work done on it to make it straight. In other words if a buyer has had considerable expense in getting a bass straight. Even then there is a market value. Just my opinion. Some of the basses I have bought on here at some time or another end up with Jon Shuker for a good set up and fret dress to get them spot on. Also, the last bass I bought on here was delivered to me with no strings on it at all, and were talking a high level bass. When i opened the case I thought the seller had taken them off for transportation and they were in the compartment in the case....nope, nothing there. The word gobsmacked come's to mind. There has been a few sellers on here who seem to buy basses from ebay for example and then try to sell them on here for a profit. They are being watched. While it is not against forum rules, there must come a time when when if someone does it once too often they have a danger of being classed as a trader, or an amateur one at that. If it becomes too regular with any one individual, we will look into it. [/quote] I picked up my Warwick from someone 5-6 years ago when the prices were low. He was emigrating to america in a week and needed shot of it. It didn't cost much. I spent over the years some money on a fret dress and some on different pickups but you are going to add maybe £100 of work to the price I paid for it. Are you saying if I sold this bass, A brilliant 1991 Streamer Stage One, I would be selling it for what I paid then plus £100? Because that would make it cheaper than some secondhand mexican fenders! (and no Warwickhunt you can't have it - it's a hypothetical example!) I get what you're saying but I don't think it's that simple - like when I see folk offer a bass and tell me they have spent silly amounts on set up and that makes up 20% of the price that's equally mad as I can set up a bass myself - just because you've spent £80 on a set up doens't mean the bass is necessarily worth more - if the bass IS worth more then I would prefer it was just sold at what it was worth as- I mean how do you work it out, I found a beaten up Peavey T40 a few years back at a very low price - kept it 6 months and spent ages stripping it down and doing it up, replacing the broken parts etc. How should I have added the bill for my time onto the price? In the end I sold it for market value.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1360540592' post='1972187'] Ha ha - I found a crappy video of it... [url="http://www.facebook.com/video/embed?video_id=501373121321"]http://www.facebook....id=501373121321[/url] [/quote] the guy on the video... walks towards the camera and covers his face.... Dave Grohl?

[quote name='lettsguitars' timestamp='1360576258' post='1972406'] There's nothing worse than a band who's 'guitarists' can only play a few power chords. Very limited. [/quote] wasn't that part of point of punk? [quote name='lettsguitars' timestamp='1360576258' post='1972406'] Sorry if I seem to be a bit of a fascist. But I am [/quote] one for a t shirt there.....

you know basschat twenty years ago, there were folk saying the same thing. Everything is derivative of something- but that's not the end of the world. I also find it odd the amount of people who were into all these cool genre defining bands back in the day - when record sales suggest that the 60's and 70's were full of middle of the road crap as much as any other period.

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1360571949' post='1972326'] Sorry Luke, you are missing the point, which is very unusual for you. They advertise price match. They advertised the bass was in stock. They still advertise price match. They still advertise the bass is in stock. In fact none of the adverts have changed, it just seemed that the only time they didn't have that bass in stock was when I asked about price match. It doesn't matter what field and wether big or small retailer, there are advertising codes. If you have no intention of doing something, do not advertise to the contrary. If you advertise to the contrary, you may have to at least take some criticism. Karl. [/quote] Good point.

and... innovation of music yes. innovation of how a band works yes (see myspace,DIY, in rainbows etc) innovation of bass guitar playing... I'm not holding my breath. I would ask BigRedX - where would you see inovation coming from? New techniques, or changes to the instrument somehow?

Dizzee Rascel /Wiley - or whever came up with grime.... hip hop meets faster pop beats and suddenly London has it's first genuine urban music style- the speed of which US pop acts picked it up shows you how influential it has been.

So you have this party, and invite all your friends.... and spend more time than anyone else in the room being unable to talk to them???? balls to that - if it were me, book a band you would want to hear and dance to - and then enjoy the day with your wife!

[quote name='Bassman Sam' timestamp='1360538036' post='1972133'] Fixed. [/quote] - I didn't like anything he played there! odd way to play. Maybe in his band it makes sense

So locking tuners lock the string? I always presumed you tuned up and then it locked the tuner post so it didn't move at all....

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1360536109' post='1972088'] I know what you mean, and I actually detest a hard sale approach. In this case, I tried to get chatting, telling him I was down in London for the weekend, had heard good things about The Gallery, how old is that bass etc. Nothing but the bare minimum of a reply, and in one instance I was just ignored (when I said goodbye) [/quote] It's London, no one likes anyone. If you wanted banter you should have gone north of Nottingham!

[quote name='lettsguitars' timestamp='1360534202' post='1972055'] There is that. There's nothing more annoying than overkeen shop assistants. A lot of folk just like to be left to it. The gallery's been there a long time and must be doing something right to be still trading when a lot of guitar shops are dying out. [/quote] I used to sell high end food stuffs, and the higher end you go the less you go pushy, you smile and are friendly but you let the customer make the choice - you don't get much more high end than some of the stuff they have in the gallery.

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1360533945' post='1972049'] Maybe it's me! What I forgot to say was that for most of the time, I was the only customer in the shop, which should have been more conducive to a chatty exchange between enthusiasts, but instead, because of Alex's frosty manner, just made for a really uncomfortable and awkward atmosphere. [/quote] nah if you work in a shop, especially a closed door shop like the gallery just having one customer is way way more akward - you don't want to be too pushy or sell, you don't know the person or what they are into or anything - or know what they are after - for something like basses if it were me I would be happier letting the customer have a look and strike up a convo if they wanted- expecting the poor fella to do a starbucks style 'how are you, whats your name' with every idiot who comes off the street is unfair. Yeah they could be better at the banter - but they don't trade on the banter. [quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1360533983' post='1972052'] Mixed feelings, Martin built me a SEI. Long gone in financially challenged times. Two weeks ago, emailed them re Lakland 44-51. On price match. They were advertising them at £1049, Guitar Guitar at £699. Asked Bass Gallery if they would price match as would prefer to buy from them. Reply from Alex was they had none in stock. strange as they were advertised as in stock, top of the Lakland list of in stock products! Oh, and they still are. Mind it was the day before Geddys Nose's Alembic Epic came up and the rest is history. Still, poor show from The Bass Gallery. [/quote] Hi small independent shop, one of your products was bought en mass by a major chain store competitor so they can offer it cheaper, and they've had their stock for ages to slashed the prices to try and shift it.... will you match that price by lopping off 30% off the price (ie your profit) for me? - no, you don't have any in stock, oh poor show