Fretless advice wanted

[M-Bass-M]

Like many here, I love the sound of a fretless. I had one years ago, but was nowhere good enough to play it properly and so soon got rid.

Years later, I'm up for the challenge again, combined with a good old dose of GAS. The "cheap" option would be to have my MIA Jazz defretted at the local luthier. However, this doesn't address any of my GAS, so the other option is to get rid of the Jazz and buy a true fretless.

Generally speaking then, who would opt to have the Jazz defretted, and who would ditch the Jazz and buy a fretless? If the latter, then which fretless would you go for and why?

If I were to go for a fretless, then I guess my budget would be around £800 or so.

Thanks in advance!

Mark

[OutToPlayJazz]

That's a tough one - I see you've already got an S2, so your Jazz is a backup bass, really. I'd sell the Jazz and go for something new if the money isn't an issue as such.

[Linus27]

[quote name='M-Bass-M' post='849786' date='May 27 2010, 08:55 PM']Like many here, I love the sound of a fretless. I had one years ago, but was nowhere good enough to play it properly and so soon got rid.

Years later, I'm up for the challenge again, combined with a good old dose of GAS. The "cheap" option would be to have my MIA Jazz defretted at the local luthier. However, this doesn't address any of my GAS, so the other option is to get rid of the Jazz and buy a true fretless.

Generally speaking then, who would opt to have the Jazz defretted, and who would ditch the Jazz and buy a fretless? If the latter, then which fretless would you go for and why?

If I were to go for a fretless, then I guess my budget would be around £800 or so.

Thanks in advance!

Mark[/quote]

I am in the same boat as you but with out the budget. The two basses that are jumping out at me for fretless are either a Fender Jazz or a Stingray. With your budget, you could easily afford one of those. In fact I know of a very stunning mint Trans Orange fretless Fender Jazz with S1 switching that might be available.

[lemmywinks]

I'd get another fretles myself, with that sort of budget you can get an absolute belter.
I really wish someone would buy this, it looks fantastic:
[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=85336&hl=tokai"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=85336&hl=tokai[/url]

Slightly annoyed that i can't afford it!

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='Linus27' post='849793' date='May 27 2010, 09:02 PM']The two basses that are jumping out at me for fretless are either a Fender Jazz or a Stingray.[/quote]
Hell yes.

That said, I'm enjoying something of a revelation at the awesomeness of my newly-acquired ACG piezo-only fretless, so if you can add a piezo bridge and filter-based preamp (or at least something with a sweepable mid to pick out the mwah frequency) into the equation I reckon you're onto a winner.

[Delberthot]

How's about a replacement neck for the Jazz but something a bit higher end than a mighty mite since you;ve got the cash?

You can pick up necks from Ebay sellers such as ReliableFender and others in the US who get brand new or nearly new basses and take them apart to sell them bit at a time so you can still have an original Fender neck on it

That way if you find you don't like it, you've still got the original neck to keep it stock in the event of having to sell it.

My favourite 2 fretlesses have been my Squier VM Jazz and a mid 90s 3-band Stingray. Both sounded fantastic, both completely different although I can get the 'wherever I lay my hat' tone on the Jazz even though it was done on a Stingray

[danny-79]

Finding a spar neck off eBay for your Jazz might be a good idea, keeping your original neck untouched in case you ever want to put it back to how it was, if you cant find a fret-less neck its not that big a job to de-fret yourself, i did a de-fret on my Aria a while ago and am quite pleased with how it turned out .
I'm not that confident as a fret-less player so the filled in lines left by the frets along with the fret markers are an added bonus (a purposely lined finger board would be ideal).

Edited May 27, 2010 by danny-79

[Dom in Dorset]

I drool over Godin acoustics.
This one is over your budget but there may be others : [url="http://www.dv247.com/guitars/godin-a4-sa-fretless-synth-access-bass-guitar-natural--49726"]http://www.dv247.com/guitars/godin-a4-sa-f...-natural--49726[/url]
I made myself a shallow body acoustic fretless inspired by Godin and it's my most used bass.
Also are you so sure about wanting to play fretless that you'd get you nice familiar jazz de-fretted? I'd think about getting a cheap fretless to see how I got on.

Edited May 28, 2010 by Dom in Somerset

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='Dom in Somerset' post='850049' date='May 28 2010, 08:51 AM']I drool over Godin acoustics.
This one is over your budget but there may be others : [url="http://www.dv247.com/guitars/godin-a4-sa-fretless-synth-access-bass-guitar-natural--49726"]http://www.dv247.com/guitars/godin-a4-sa-f...-natural--49726[/url]
I made myself a shallow body acoustic fretless inspired by Godin and it's my most used bass.
Also are you so sure about wanting to play fretless that you'd get you nice familiar jazz de-fretted? I'd think about getting a cheap fretless to see how I got on.[/quote]


There's an A5 fretless on the forum now at £700
[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=89528&hl=godin"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=89528&hl=godin[/url]

[Dom in Dorset]

I drool over Godin solid body basses too. I haven't actually left any drool on that one thogh.

[LukeFRC]

If you're just wanting to get into it why not just pick something up for a fraction of the money you have to learn on. Sell it on and buy something better when you know it's for you or just sell it if it doesn't work out.
It's what I did, I have an old defretted aria i swapped with rasta for a bass pod i wasnt using.
still cannae play it mind!

[M-Bass-M]

[quote name='Dom in Somerset' post='850049' date='May 28 2010, 07:51 AM']Also are you so sure about wanting to play fretless that you'd get you nice familiar jazz de-fretted? I'd think about getting a cheap fretless to see how I got on.[/quote]
Thanks for all the replies. The idea of a replacement neck is something that I just hadn't even considered, but does represent a good, cheap compromise. However, I'd probably want experience at replacing necks on a cheaper bass first before moving on to the Jazz.

However, the above comment probably nails it on the head for me. If I got the Jazz defretted, then I would look for a cheap back-up fretted bass. But given that the Jazz is a more than capable back-up bass, it probably makes far more sense to get a cheap fretless instead to see if fretless is for me. Let's face it, the idea of buying a more expensive fretless has more to do with satisfying some GAS than with taking a sensible approach...what's new, eh?

On this basis then...

Am I right in thinking there's a lot of love for the Squire Vintage Modified Jazz fretless?

Cheers

Mark

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='M-Bass-M' post='850110' date='May 28 2010, 10:01 AM']Am I right in thinking there's a lot of love for the Squire Vintage Modified Jazz fretless?[/quote]
Yes.



To elaborate slightly... the VMJ fretless got me started on fretless, and I haven't looked back. Such an easy-to-play bass.

[hillbilly deluxe]

There is,and the JHS Vintage fretless Jazz.

[valere24]

Everybody has got a different view on this, but here are a couple of thoughts:
- The jazz bass is the "classic" fretless bass, because of jaco etc... I'll probably go CIJ if I had to buy a new one.
- Some people like having a fretless version of their main fretted bass - to help with the transition / muscle memory.
- I've found that a good set-up is vital for a fretless, even more than a fretted. If you want the mwwwaaaa, you need seriously low action and little neck relief. So worth spending some money with a good luthier to get the neck perfectly straight etc.
V.

[M-Bass-M]

[quote name='hillbilly deluxe' post='850117' date='May 28 2010, 10:06 AM']There is,and the JHS Vintage fretless Jazz.[/quote]
Price-wise, that looks cheaper. However I also see that there is the V940, which has a non-Fender shape that I prefer. Anybody have experiences of playing one?

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='M-Bass-M' post='850186' date='May 28 2010, 11:10 AM']Price-wise, that looks cheaper. However I also see that there is the V940, which has a non-Fender shape that I prefer. Anybody have experiences of playing one?[/quote]
I've noodled on a V940 for a while in a shop. While it was fine in terms of playability, I found the sound really, really lacking. Thin, weedy, uninspiring. Dunno if it was the pickups or the preamp, but if you got one of those I'd budget for new electronics too.

Obviously, as ever, YMMV.

Oh, and it's unlined too, so it might be a bit of a baptism of fire, fretless-wise.

[RhysP]

[quote name='valere24' post='850133' date='May 28 2010, 10:17 AM']If you want the mwwwaaaa, you need seriously low action and little neck relief.[/quote]
Not strictly true.
If the action is too low the notes will bloom or buzz too much, choking them & not allowing them to ring out. I can have the strings pretty much resting on the fingerboard of my Zon, but it sounds like sh*t.
It's very much a juggling act with the action to get the notes to sing just right.

"Mwaa" is also dependent on strings - you really need to use roundwounds.

[martthebass]

It's all a matter of opinion really - the usual comment of 'try before you buy applies'.

From a purely personal point of view I would sell the Jazz and free up £800 to buy the Jazz fretless or Ray fretless you are considering. I've had both MIA Jazz and Ray fretless - at the moment I prefer and own the latter. I sometimes use the Ray fretless as a back up bass to my fretted Ray (or Streamline) - I find the 2eq model can give a good punch (compared with a Jazz fretless) and can be used to play anything in the band's set (ie. it doesn't have to sound too 'fretless' if I don't want it to).

I'm sure this will polarise views but I generally have found that the amount of money you spend makes more difference with a Fretless than a fretted. I've found some unplayable examples even at £4-500 which I haven't found to be the case on fretted - just my £0.02. I'm sure VMJ owners will disagree but if money were no object would you have a VMJ or an S2 fretless?

[bassbora]

I could not resist to add to this thread. Have you maybe considered a Warwick? Did you see the Streamer going here and its now on Ebay for £700.

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=87914"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=87914[/url]

I dont know this guy at all but I have been playing Warwick Thumbs for 15 years or so and I can not recommend Warwicks highly enough. I listened to the sound clip the guy put on and this bass sounds lovely. I think the price for that Warwick is a steal and if it was a 5 or 6 string I would have bought it myself.

I used to have a 4 string Stingray. Lovely instruments but since I was hooked on the Thumb body shape that Stingray never had a chance also I prefer 5 and 6 strings. But if you are still thinking about buying a bass for up to £800 you can get some serious instruments here on the forum.

I would be quite interested to hear what you will go for in the end.

Cheers

[M-Bass-M]

You know what, I did see that Warwick and was very tempted! As you say, it looks like a great price, but I think for me it's the wrong time.

I'm pretty sure that there's a Squire VMJ fretless at my local music shop, and possibly a Vintage, so I may see if I can try them out with a view to seeing whether a budget fretless cuts it for me personally. I have to admit that there seems to be something special about a Ray fretless - I think I've officially fallen in love with [url="http://www.absolutemusic.co.uk/store/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=4111"]this[/url]! Bit out of my price range, but if a second hand one came available...

While we're on the subject of fretless, my experience is that there seem to be more 5-string than 4-string fretless basses. Why the love for the fretless low B string?

Also, what views do people have on fretboard woods? My preconception is that rosewood is better than either Maple or Graphite, on account of it having a warmer tone.

Finally, many of you have recommended Jazz style basses - be they Fender, Vintage, or otherwise. Now I can't help but think that the Jazz suffers from the Jaco effect, and that other style basses are equally suited (if not more) to fretless. For those of you who have played both Jazz and non-Jazz fretless basses, what are your thoughts? Does the Jazz win out?

[Linus27]

[quote name='M-Bass-M' post='850543' date='May 28 2010, 06:56 PM']You know what, I did see that Warwick and was very tempted! As you say, it looks like a great price, but I think for me it's the wrong time.

I'm pretty sure that there's a Squire VMJ fretless at my local music shop, and possibly a Vintage, so I may see if I can try them out with a view to seeing whether a budget fretless cuts it for me personally. I have to admit that there seems to be something special about a Ray fretless - I think I've officially fallen in love with [url="http://www.absolutemusic.co.uk/store/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=4111"]this[/url]! Bit out of my price range, but if a second hand one came available...

While we're on the subject of fretless, my experience is that there seem to be more 5-string than 4-string fretless basses. Why the love for the fretless low B string?

Also, what views do people have on fretboard woods? My preconception is that rosewood is better than either Maple or Graphite, on account of it having a warmer tone.

Finally, many of you have recommended Jazz style basses - be they Fender, Vintage, or otherwise. Now I can't help but think that the Jazz suffers from the Jaco effect, and that other style basses are equally suited (if not more) to fretless. For those of you who have played both Jazz and non-Jazz fretless basses, what are your thoughts? Does the Jazz win out?[/quote]

I have a Squire Vintage Modified Fretless Jazz (the one that looks like Jaco's) and it is stunning. I went to buy a fretted bass and saw it and it caught my eye. After playing all the fretted basses I was interested in, I had a go on the Squire for a bit of fun. It was beautiful and sounded stunning. Next few weeks, I came home to find my wife had bought it for me. She said I just seemed so happy and natural playing it. It truely is a great instrument that punches way over its weight.

For me, the next step up from a Squire Fretless would be a nice CIJ Fender 62RI Jazz. You can get one of these for around £400 and they are superb basses.

If you are unsure about fretless, then go for the Squire. Its a cracking bass and sits really nicely next to my Stingrays, MIA Fenders and Warwick.

[lemmywinks]

There's a rather nice Iceni bass in the FS section for well under budget that comes with a spare maple/ebony neck.

Handmade in the UK and supreme quality, doubt you'd get a better made bass for that price - £600 IIRC

[Delberthot]

I'm using a Squier VM Fretless Jazz exclusively for everything. I currently have no intention of changning it for anything

[bassmeg]

*shameless pitch*

I have a Vintage Icon vj96 fretless for sale £130+postage.

TBH its not just a shameless pitch, i bought this and it really turned me onto the fretless. For the money, cant be beaten. Looks cool and sounds great. But i feel, rightly or wrongly that i want a bass of better calibre. Also when i have played mine at gigs, nobody notices that its fretless because of the lines, so i want to try an unlined ebony boarded bass. Poncy i know, but if i am making the effort to play fretless- i want people to know!

Just giving you another option. Good luck with what you go for.

BTW there was an Alembic fretless that went for £600 on here a few weeks ago, that was stunning. I think it was there for about 2 minutes!