discreet Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 [quote name='Bilbo' post='839541' date='May 17 2010, 09:54 AM']But, real world stuff, if you have a day job, family oblifation, travelling time and expense etc it can get intrusive.[/quote] Too right! If I get any more family oblifation I'm going to kick someone in the foolies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 (edited) This is way too much, IMV. They are being way too cautious. Get the songs upto speed and then do a few pubs...and that will play you in for the important functions. There must be something wrong if you are all putting in this time and are still not ready...by someone's definition. From scratch..ie all the band learn all new songs, then 1 rehearsal should equal about 5-6 songs IF you have all put your time in. Most people are too busy so do the work at home and use the rehearsal time to bring them together. If I joined a working band in feb and had to wait until what, june or july for a gig...well, that doesn't sound like a working band to me How on earth do you set aside two nights a week forever anyway.. we either can't get a room or people are too busy. People just have to do the work at home. we will busk songs into the set like this. Edited May 17, 2010 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonecoldbass Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 I agree. But a cautionary tale.... I was 'replaced' from my last functions band because I spoke up about the over-rehearsing we were doing. The band was run by the drummer (who was also the lead singer...don't ask) and we had a bunch of rehearsals at the end of last year to learn new material for an Xmas run we had coming up in a Hotel. Fair enough. The guitarists writes out charts in the appropriate keys, I have a blast over the basslines before rehearsal so I know the vibe and we can pretty much play it 2nd time thru. However, we play the songs over and over again so that the drummer can get used to playing and singing them....I don't appreciate my time being wasted because of someone elses shortcomings. Turns out when we did the gigs we didn't even end up using HALF the material we practiced, the drummer was calling out the songs.... Come January I get a call saying he wants to book some rehearsals to learn new songs before the first gig. So I told him I wasn't keen to do another 12hrs of rehearsing for material we might not use when I am more than capable of turning up and playing the tune off the chart on the night. Heck, if you give me enough notice I'll even learn it note for note off the record at home. Not a word for 6weeks, I log onto the band website and find out they have done a showcase without me... did one more gig and I wasn't guaranteed anymore work so I had to look elsewhere. Which is what they had been doing for 4 weeks without telling me they were looking for a bass player :| That said, I found another band pretty quick that were much more fun to play with, no rehearsals, (I got an email with the setlist and I went over tunes I didn't know before 1st gig) and still just as tight. Say your piece man, I'm glad I did, why should we have to waste our time at the expense of other peoples shortcomings as a musician? There are ways to keep everyone happy, some people aren't willing to change however... Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me And My Bass Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 [quote name='stonecoldbass' post='839706' date='May 17 2010, 12:47 PM']I agree. But a cautionary tale.... I was 'replaced' from my last functions band because I spoke up about the over-rehearsing we were doing. The band was run by the drummer (who was also the lead singer...don't ask) and we had a bunch of rehearsals at the end of last year to learn new material for an Xmas run we had coming up in a Hotel. Fair enough. The guitarists writes out charts in the appropriate keys, I have a blast over the basslines before rehearsal so I know the vibe and we can pretty much play it 2nd time thru. However, we play the songs over and over again so that the drummer can get used to playing and singing them....I don't appreciate my time being wasted because of someone elses shortcomings. Turns out when we did the gigs we didn't even end up using HALF the material we practiced, the drummer was calling out the songs.... Come January I get a call saying he wants to book some rehearsals to learn new songs before the first gig. So I told him I wasn't keen to do another 12hrs of rehearsing for material we might not use when I am more than capable of turning up and playing the tune off the chart on the night. Heck, if you give me enough notice I'll even learn it note for note off the record at home. Not a word for 6weeks, I log onto the band website and find out they have done a showcase without me... did one more gig and I wasn't guaranteed anymore work so I had to look elsewhere. Which is what they had been doing for 4 weeks without telling me they were looking for a bass player :| That said, I found another band pretty quick that were much more fun to play with, no rehearsals, (I got an email with the setlist and I went over tunes I didn't know before 1st gig) and still just as tight. Say your piece man, I'm glad I did, why should we have to waste our time at the expense of other peoples shortcomings as a musician? There are ways to keep everyone happy, some people aren't willing to change however... Craig[/quote] lol Aye but he needed the practice mate! lol C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 I'd run a mile from a lead vocalist drummer... Can you imagine giving him a chart as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassbloke Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 [quote name='Jean-Luc Pickguard' post='839492' date='May 17 2010, 09:02 AM']I can't stand it when rehearsals are used to practice rather than rehearse. Waste of everyone's time & money. Too many people don't know the difference.[/quote] +1 Too many people treat reherasals as a substitute for practice. I've been in plenty of bands with people who fell into this category. Sometimes, the perpetrators really did themselves no favours. I remember at least two occasions where a bandmate broke a string towards the end of a rehearsal and so we called it a day, only for them to pitch up at the next rehearsal and pull their guitar out of the case with a string still missing. I also have an issue with bands writing or learning material in rehearsal. This is stuff that should be done away from the rehearsal studio. We rehearse every other week and everyone makes a point of doing their homework and turning up to rehearsal knowing all of the songs. It's the fairest way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonecoldbass Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 Agreed!! Still, crap way to be treated after 2yrs of loyal service like.... c [quote name='Me And My Bass' post='839715' date='May 17 2010, 12:56 PM']lol Aye but he needed the practice mate! lol C.[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 (edited) [quote name='bassbloke' post='839731' date='May 17 2010, 01:10 PM']...everyone makes a point of doing their homework and turning up to rehearsal knowing all of the songs. It's the fairest way.[/quote] It's the [b]ONLY[/b][i][/i] way IMO!! You shouldn't be paying £10-15 per hour for lazy b@st@rds to learn songs that they've had a fortnight on!! Edited May 17, 2010 by Conan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 With the latest covers band I've joined we had precisely 1 rehearsal with the whole band present before my first gig with them. I had another 2 short sessions with one or two of the other guys but only the 1 with the drummer present and we never played anything more than once. I was slightly nervy about the first gig but it went reasonably well all things considered. We still don't have a proper regular rehearsal slot booked. A good thing is to have live recording of the actual band doing the set to work from, really useful to get the intro/outtro and any arrangements that differ from the original recordings learned in advance. I'd plike to rehearse a bit more to get a bit tighter with the drummer but I think it'll just have to come as we're gigging. Definitely will require some more practice sessions to work up new tunes for the set though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 I don't get some of the replies in here. If you're not writing songs or learning songs or in some other way becoming more familiar with songs when you've got the whole band in a rehearsal room, what exactly are you doing there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 I think once a week is plenty most of the time, maybe a few extra if there is a gig coming up. If you're not writing (which I prefer to do at home myself or with acoustics) or rehearsing, then having fun and enjoying playing your music is the order of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stylon Pilson Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='839780' date='May 17 2010, 02:23 PM']I don't get some of the replies in here. If you're not writing songs or learning songs or in some other way becoming more familiar with songs when you've got the whole band in a rehearsal room, what exactly are you doing there?[/quote] Rolling your eyes at the guitarist while he tries to figure out the chords to a song because "I've been really busy this week." S.P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 [quote name='Stylon Pilson' post='839793' date='May 17 2010, 02:45 PM']Rolling your eyes at the guitarist while he tries to figure out the chords to a song because "I've been really busy this week." S.P.[/quote] Well in that spirit I should add that I spend most of my time prodding our trombonist in the neck until he puts his ****ing iphone away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 It's really about communication and, to some extent, recognising that the band is more than the sum of it's parts. You may all know your parts but playing as a band takes more than that The Op's band is probably overdoing it, given their situation, but there's justification for various different types of practices and rehearsals: Writing stuff, learning new stuff, preparing for a live gig or recording. There's other things that can only really be done in a whole band rehearsal (or live) like sorting overall band sound, dynamics, cuing, effects, team building, building friendships, disaster recovery, set transitions etc. However it's important to say why the rehearsal is happening so that everyone understands. The singing drummer situation is a good example. There's only so much you can do at home, oe even on your own in a rehearsal studio. Singing lead and playing drums must be pretty tricky and then setting monitors and all the rest would take some "gear rehearsal" time. I'd be a bit narked if my drummer was sitting there going "well I can play my bit" whilst I worked through something tricky that needed the whole band sound.. When I have something specific to work on that I can ony do in a rehearsal situation I always make sure I list it on the "what are we going to do at the rehearsal" email that goes around beforehand. I would then expect my band to give me the time to do it and to tollerate tings for teh overall good of the band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartelby Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 I joined a band back in March. We've had about 6, one a week, 3 hour rehearsals. They were an established originals band so in that time they've taught me about 14 songs and we've written 2 new ones. We have our first gig, in this lineup, on Friday. We ran through the set 3 times last Friday and decided that was enough. But we do record every rehearsal and MP3s get sent around, so I listen to the latest stuff through the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassbloke Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='839780' date='May 17 2010, 02:23 PM']I don't get some of the replies in here. If you're not writing songs or learning songs or in some other way becoming more familiar with songs when you've got the whole band in a rehearsal room, what exactly are you doing there?[/quote] Perfecting songs we've already written and learnt at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted May 17, 2010 Author Share Posted May 17, 2010 All of this is very helpful. thanks everyone. I was going to quote everyone but it would have taken up about 5000 pages This is quite an interesting topic. It IS, if im honest, putting me off with the amount of rehearsals. I am prepared to carry on, and I mentioned once we gig, we should only be rehearsing when we actually need to (eg if there is a 3 week gap between gigs). I was informed when I joined that they DO get busy, and have a good reputation. In addition, the money SHOULD be good after a few months. My problem is, I feel like im waiting for the singer to get upto scratch. What they normally do is set up an entire PA, (yes, the whole thing, lifted down from a storage area) then start at 7. We work on the material until 9 or 10, then we leave. It takes me a while to get to and from the actual rooms we use. Then, we do the same thing the next day, but the PA is already set up. At the end of that night, we pull the entire PA down and all the equipment. Usually I end up home far too late. I dont understand the need for an entire PA for every practice. We need vocals through it, but thats it. They even mic up all the drums. Its a small room, and I wear earplugs all the time. Dont get me wrong, I think it will be great when we get gigging, but the way they rehearse is overkill. The PA issue is crazy! Id rather just get the vocals in and get going I also agree with the many comments above; it makes the music stale before it should be. I enjoy a little 'edge' and challenge. I dont want to turn up and just play without thinking. It also takes the groove and feel out of it. Id rather just gig and deal with it whilst im playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 We moan when we lose 30 mins or so through set-up time.. and that is vocal only and the drums set-up but then we don't rehearse much so need to maximise our time. I have 3 songs to learn by tomorrow night as they have only just been given to me/confirmed. They will be gigged next time out. They will be a bit edgey...but if they pass the rehearsal in terms of feel/groove, then that is enough, they'll do and we move onto the next batch. If we need the format we'll use charts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 I think there's another thing we haven't talked about that has a bearing. Some people join bands and some people play in bands. It's a subtle difference but I mean that in some bands the members are like family. They socialise and get on outside the band. They are mates beyond the band. They will still be sending Christmas cards 10 years after the band has spilt. My Main band is like that. We've been playing together for 18 years. If one of my band mates needs to work something out we all help him to do so. Other bands are made up of people with more detached professional relationship. They do the job in that band for a while and then move on. I have played in bands like that too and it's more of a challenge to get that support and empathy. It sounds like the OP is in the latter category. The PA setup and break down is good practice and the more you do it in rehearsal the faster you'll be able to do it at gigs. Plus I assume you have split the jobs up so that you all do your bit. I'd suggest dropping back to monitors only until a few rehearsals before your gig so that you can maybe spend that time rehearsing rather than doing the PA. You may be able to negotiate a few weeks of single rehearsal. You might also suggest splitting the rehearsals so that some are "specialist groups" such as vocals or rhythm section or any other sub groups you have so that they can tighten things, work through any hitches and try new things (different harmonies, effects etc) Also try some "quiet as possible" rehearsal where you run things through acoustically or close to. Not only will your ears get a rest but you'll find some nice little things to fix that are impossible to hear loud, especially if you are playing loud enough to need ear plugs at every rehearsal. Again that will bring the set-up and break-down time down, and give you different aspects to work on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 [quote name='OldGit' post='840252' date='May 17 2010, 09:50 PM']Some people join bands and some people play in bands.[/quote] All good. This is a key point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 (edited) We have vocal sessions at someone's house...lot more informal, less costly and if the song works acoustically, then you know it will work with the full band... drummer notwithstanding If someone was slack and that someone was the vocals, then this would be a better idea in the early stages of a song. I am not sure this is too relevant if you are 3-4 months into the bands life, tho.. I think it is a big imposition to grab 2 nights a week, week-in, week-out. I'd be saying the band is already running at a loss...esp if it was a function band, primarily. All this playing to no end would kill it pretty damn quick for me... and I would think the set would suffer as well. Bear in mind that those songs will be your staple diet for virtually every set you do, for ..err....ages...!!! This is the bain of functions, IMV. i,e..you aren't so very fussed with a lot of the songs in the 1st place...and then you play them to death..???? I can only see trouble ahead, TBH..!!! Edited May 18, 2010 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 [quote name='Musicman20' post='840039' date='May 17 2010, 07:12 PM']My problem is, I feel like im waiting for the singer to get upto scratch.[/quote] Well, it IS important that the singer is pretty spot on, but if after six months or so he still needs practice that would be ringing warning bells to me! Regardless of the opinions of others on here, it is clear that the situation is bothering YOU - so you must air your grievances. If you just get pissed off and leave, everyone will have lost. Cruel to be kind, and all that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 (edited) Rule 1 about getting upto scratch, IMO. The person should give enough in the 1st rehearsal or audtion for everyone to know this will work with no real issues. There are certain songs that should be nailed in one..and others can take longer, but I think this issue has been allowed to stew and fester. A constructive band meet needs to be called and these things need to be aired. Not to the point of anyone getting in a paddy and doing something that nobody wants or needs...but things need to be dealt with. In this situation I am always at pains to point out that any beefs are aired for the good of the band and the end result is key. Grown up people can handle this if done well, I think. Or..make it a joint/band fault so no one gets victimised. Having said all this...maybe one or two people in bands might think it is more their baby and therefore are a bit more dictorial as they are founder members... Just be reasonable about it all..IME. you all have the same goals and aims..hopefully. Edited May 18, 2010 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 (edited) [quote name='JTUK' post='840527' date='May 18 2010, 09:09 AM']maybe one or two people in bands might think it is more their baby and therefore are a bit more dictorial as they are founder members...[/quote] Yeah. And if that member/those members appear to suffer from some form of OCD - big problems!! Also, in practice (or at least in my experience) few band members DO have the maturity and/or altruistic attitude to be able to deal with (even constructive) criticism without chucking their toys out of the pram. But maybe I've just been unlucky!? Edited May 18, 2010 by Conan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 "... but i dunno... i don't want to get bored with the songs before we've even gigged them!!" I know I've been on this board before recommending people to go and watch Normal Watt-Roy in the Wilko Johnson Band, but I first saw these around 25 years ago (and countless times since) and they are still playing largely the same numbers. How many times can you play 'Roxette' without going mad? But Norman still puts more into his performance than any other bass player I know, he's developed things, changed things about and constantly seeks perfection. He doesn't get tired of the songs, he just gets better, as a result I still want to hear Roxette again! Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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