Looking for more Growl from my P

[dave_bass5]

Ive recently been going through a tone dilemma. I thought i wanted a P and have, in the past been very happy with them.
After using my Jazz recently i now find i love the growl i got from it and the way the higher notes have some bite to them.

I know a P can growl (and ive been happy with the way my previous DD and Fender P5 did it) as well but i want a bit more now.

Anyway, open to some suggestions etc. Like i say, i dont want it go active and i dont want to have any routing done, just a straight pup swap.
The Wizards look good and i know a few member have them so ill look in to those.
Ive had a SDQP in the past but didn't really like it, although back then i was looking for a smoother tone and this was, of course the wrong pup for that.

Its just an idea at the moment but as i dont have a lot of experience with different pups, other than stock ones, i thought i would post here.

Cheers.

Edited January 21, 2010 by dave_bass5

[Beedster]

I just up the I/P gain on my amp (or roll off the volume on the bass when I don't need it), and my Precisions growl like a Grizzly who's just got home to find his wife in bed with his best mate

C

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Beedster' post='719975' date='Jan 21 2010, 11:50 AM']I just up the I/P gain on my amp (or roll off the volume on the bass when I don't need it), and my Precisions growl like a Grizzly who's just got home to find his wife in bed with his best mate

C[/quote]

Yeah, i really do need to play with the EQ more. I know a P can do it but not sure how well the Fralin can, compared to other pups.

I found that with my Jazz all notes had this firm bite to them (although my Lakland DJ5 never got that) but with the DD i feel the higher notes seem to get a bit lost.
I guess the same difference between the Lakland and Fender Jazz i had is the same thing im hearing between the DD and my old Fender P5. That had loads as well.

Ive emailed Andy at Wizard to he what he thinks. I quite like the look of the Area 51 Stealth pup he does.

[chris_b]

Attention: Modded Precision bass for sale in 3 months!!

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='chris_b' post='719996' date='Jan 21 2010, 12:07 PM']Attention: Modded Precision bass for sale in 3 months!![/quote]

LOL, just what i was thinking.

Its not that im not happy with it, i am. Its the nicest bass ive played (other than my previous DD's of course) so for now this is a keeper.

Yes, i probably will mod it. I might even get a pup put in at the neck at some point later in the year but im not going to be selling it that quick. I lost too much on the DJ5.

Ive missed my old DD for too long and now i have another one im not going to part with it so quickly.

The only thing i may do is to trade it for a SR4, but thats way down the line.

Edited January 21, 2010 by dave_bass5

[Musicman20]

I find strings make a huge difference to every P ive owned, despite the fact the basses themselves are quite basic.

Try out some DR High Beams/Fat Beams....the stainless steel will definitely give you that P bass growl that I love. Have the tone right up, play with a pick

In fact, even cheaper strings like Rotos will do it no problems.

[Clarky]

Dave, in my experience a Wizard Stealth is quite similar to a SD Quarter Pounder, ie, tons of beef. It won't get you the growl on higher notes particularly, just more oomph. Sounds to me like a less drastic (and cheaper) option would be to buy a good preamp pedal such as Tone Hammer or Sansamp or Sadowsky

[dave_bass5]

Cheers Gareth.
Playing with a pick, tone right up is how i normally play.
The DD came with SS strings but ive put some Boomers on last night. Although these are nicks they did make a bit of an improvement to the tone.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Clarky' post='720028' date='Jan 21 2010, 12:35 PM']Dave, in my experience a Wizard Stealth is quite similar to a SD Quarter Pounder, ie, tons of beef. It won't get you the growl on higher notes particularly, just more oomph. Sounds to me like a less drastic (and cheaper) option would be to buy a good preamp pedal such as Tone Hammer or Sansamp or Sadowsky[/quote]

Cheers Clarky.

I do plan on using my BDI21 for now and get a BDDI as soon as i can afford it.

I said this before with the DJ5 but i feel the DD has quite a deep tone. Not dark like the DJ5 but deeper than my P5. I compared the P5 and DD when i had both and i heard this deepness, even through headphones. At the time i was coming form the DD so to my ears that was the norm but looking back, i now think the P5 had a better, more open tone, and closer to what im after now. If only it didnt have that extra sting on it.

Seeing as ive had two DD's before and they have all sounded the same im sure i just need to get back in to the whole P tone thing and im sure ill settle down.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Clarky' post='720028' date='Jan 21 2010, 12:35 PM']Dave, in my experience a Wizard Stealth is quite similar to a SD Quarter Pounder, ie, tons of beef. It won't get you the growl on higher notes particularly, just more oomph. Sounds to me like a less drastic (and cheaper) option would be to buy a good preamp pedal such as Tone Hammer or Sansamp or Sadowsky[/quote]

+1, as we discussed through PM Dave, a good grit pedal/DI will add a massive amount of beef and growl. I reckon get down to the Gallery and test the Tech 21 Sansamp vs Aguilar Tone Hammer. Two very different beasts.

[dave_bass5]

Thanks all, think ill give myself a bit of time before making any mods.
I was very keen on getting the TH at first but i think it might not work as well as a BDDI. My BDI21 is working well and has just enough tube sim to warm everything up. I dont really need the extra gain the TH gives.

First gig with the DD on sat so ill take the BDI21 and see how it goes. I did well over 100 gigs with my last DD so i know its going to work fine. Its just me being silly really. plus, i was bowled over by the Sub i got off Wanye on sunday. Ive still got that SR tone going on in my head.

In fact, to those of you who read/took part in my "tell me about MM basses" thread, i started that off with the intention of getting away from the traditional P, jazz tones and looking for something new and this could explain why ive not taken to the DD straight way.

Edited January 21, 2010 by dave_bass5

[Grand Wazoo]

If I were you I'd reconsider the Seymour Duncan Quarter Pound, you said you've tried it when you were looking for a smoother tone and it didn't fit the bill, now you're after bite and a ballsy growl. You can't get better than a quarter pound on a P.

[url="http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/basslines/progressive-1/spb3_quarterpou/"]http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/bass...pb3_quarterpou/[/url]

[Noisyjon]

My 2p worth: I play the same as you - with a pick and controls to 10.
With my US P/J bass it has the growl from the P bass Qtr. Pounder & the Hot jazz bridge stack in it, but maybe not enough to justify modding it in the first place. Guess I learnt the hard way!
I have since found, and use a lot, the MXR M80 D.I.+ pre-amp pedal. It has foot switchable clean and dirty sounds and is well capable of doing what you require. It has been called the 'Swiss army Knife' of pre-amps by me & others. Do check it out on your quest as I cannot recommend it enough and it could save you costly non-reversable mods to your basses.

Regards,
Jon

[dave_bass5]

Thanks Jon.
As i already have a BDI21 i think that might well be the cheapest option right now. I did like what i was hearing before with it when i was playing my HW1 through it. I even liked how my DJ5 sounded through it and we all know what i thought about that bass lol.

While im happy and eager to use it i would prefer not to have to resort to a pedal (and therefore have more to contend with) whenever i wanted to use the bass.

Ive been looking in to Hanson pups, these are the people who make the Lakland pups and it does seem that the Hansons might have a bit more in the upper register and could well be a good option. A simple pup swap will be easy enough to do (and un do), even for me.
I would prefer to have a PJ, not to sort this problem out but i really enjoyed having a PJ before, just for a bit more variety.
Its not something ill think about for now though.

bass5. I will still consider the SD, like you say, its under different circumstances now.

[dave_bass5]

After opening up the Duck Dunn again tonight I now realise i have a Lakland pup and not a Fralin in it.
so, while i could get a Fralin im going to get a Fender Original/Vintage P-Bass Pickup for £69.

This is pretty close to the Fralin and a lot cheaper. If it works then all well and good, if not im sure i can sell it here.

Cheers for all the advice and help.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='720651' date='Jan 21 2010, 11:06 PM']After opening up the Duck Dunn again tonight I now realise i have a Lakland pup and not a Fralin in it.
so, while i could get a Fralin im going to get a Fender Original/Vintage P-Bass Pickup for £69.

This is pretty close to the Fralin and a lot cheaper. If it works then all well and good, if not im sure i can sell it here.

Cheers for all the advice and help.[/quote]

I read your post on tbass about this,.

I must admit, the new flat pole piece P pups in the new American Standards are awesome...IMO.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Prosebass' post='720719' date='Jan 22 2010, 01:30 AM']Rather than seeing it as a pickup 'problem' attack it from a different and less expensive direction and add more attack to your playing style.
Lower your action , and get a little string / fret interaction and roll off your treble / tone , upping your string gauge will help , worth a try ![/quote]

Thanks but thats a bit too drastic.
I already have the action low and very comfortable, id rather not change that.

Its not so much a big tone change im looking for, just a bit more mids i guess. Plus, the biggest issue i have (and these really are small in the grand scheme of things) is lack of clarity and bite on higher notes, especially the G string. I had all this with my P5 so i know a P is capable and my playing style and set up are also fine so i think a pup change might help.

I should point out (if i haven't already) that ive not plugged in to my rig yet. Ive just been using my usual practice set up at home and i know that at the gig it will be a lot better.

Gareth. Yes, the latest Fender pups are rather good, if my P5 was anything to go by.

[krispn]

I was gonna say the Fralins were meant to be a little 'hotter than the Lakland's own so check to make sure what you have in there but you beat me to it.

Tone Hammer is useful but the dirt channel is a boost and its not useful as a dual functioneq/dirt box live for this reason as the volume jump is too drastic unless thast exactly what your after and the guitarist can handle the gut rumble - thats certainly what I found and regrettable moved my old tone hammer for this reason tho it's great for recording etc.

Run your bass thru your regular gig rig reset the eq to flat and consider what you like about the tone and what needs more oomph. Our ears can get very used to a particular sound and its strange listening to another rig after a short break.

My BG has a Lakland pick up and its a good solid P tone. I haven't experienced a lack of clarity in higher notes but Im rarely up the dusty end anyway. I know East are gonna be bringing out the P Retro soon and it might be a good option - as easy to fit as a new pick up and could give the added bite built into the bass without having extra stuff to hump about and as far as I know his stuff is built to fit the current tone cavity so no machining to your lovely Double D.

All possible options and I may well go down the P Retro route just to heave what it can add - though to be fair I may get a little Squire and test it in there first!

Good luck on you hunt for tone.......... oh wait I think I just saw it run that way just behind you!

[dave_bass5]

Thanks for the heads up about the P retro. It does sound interesting. Ill keep an eye out for it.
I think your right about just getting used to a tone. Ive still got the Jazz tone in my head and i think this might be clouding how i hear the DD.
Im sure the DD will work fine at the gig, after all,its a P and these just sound right without any fuss. I think im just after a slightly different P tone and one i used to have with the P5.
My tone is good, its just i want to hear the higher notes more. And by higher in talking about the G string in general, not just notes up past the 5th fret ( i know thats not high)

Fender do list the 2008 pup on their UK website but ive just spent the last hour and a half looking on line and cant find anyone who sells it. In fact i cant find anywhere in the Uk that has any of the Fender P pups in stock.

[4 Strings]

For my tuppence worth try Rotosound Swing bass strings, as heavy as you feel comfortable.

These were used on Live at Leeds (along with Hiwatt valve amps and 4x12s) to give, perhaps, the benchmark for Precision growl. While I love progress in bass amplification if you want an old fashioned sound its best to use old fashioned equipment.

I don't have that old equipment but, to me, Swing Bass strings seem to be made for Fender Precisions and make a big step to that sound. I don't know the gauges preferred by JE but the heavier gauges add weight to the sound.

[dave_bass5]

Cheers guys.

MY whole issue is that ive used the same equipment for the past few years. Same stings, same rig etc. Now i have another P i expect it to sound like my others without me having to change my playing style etc. Changing the EQ im fine with but going to heavier strings will effect the feel of the bass so thats not really an option.

Just a quick update. I did the first gig with the DD last night and it sounded fine. The growl was there and it sounded nice and punchy. Its a lot more middy than my old Dj5, thats a good thing.
The only real problem i had was the notes on the G string kept disappearing. Its not really a volume difference as far as i can tell. At sound check it was fine but once the band were playing almost anything i played on the G string seemed to get lost. This si what ive been hearing at home as well and this is really the only issue i have now.

Ive been quoted 2 to 3 months wait for a 2008 Fender pup so im going to order a Fralin. At least this will be a more familiar pick up and one thats closer to the Fender as it uses Alnico V magnets, as does the Fender.

Ill keep you all posted.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='723262' date='Jan 24 2010, 04:33 PM']The only real problem i had was the notes on the G string kept disappearing. Its not really a volume difference as far as i can tell. At sound check it was fine but once the band were playing almost anything i played on the G string seemed to get lost. This si what ive been hearing at home as well and this is really the only issue i have now.[/quote]

Try clamping a g-clamp or somesuch to the headstock and see if it sorts that. Obviously not a perm fix, but it will show if one of those headstock weight things will fix that for ya.