Phaedrus Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Hi, I guess from looking at the specs of some 4x10s out there, anything around 30kg should be considered light? I've been aiming to get a Tour 45 & TVX410 early next year (though I also have my eye on the Warwick ProFet 3.3 and Hartke LH500), but have come to hope that I can find a considerably lighter 4x10 for similar money. The 8ohm TVX410 is 44kg, the 4ohm version is 46.6kg (shouldn't less ohms make it lighter . . . ) I'm tired of carrying my TNT150BW around, and I hate asking for help. 30kg-ish 4x10s around the €300 - €400 mark include: Ampeg B-410HE - 32.5kg, 8ohm, €300 GK Backline 410BLX-II - 32kg, 8ohm, €300 Laney RB410 - 31kg, 8ohm, €318 Warwick WCA410-4 Pro - 31kg, 4ohm, €400 Warwick WCA410-8 Pro - 31kg, 8ohm, €400 Other 30kg-ish but more expensive cabs include: Hartke 410 HX Hydrive - 31kg, 8ohm, €600 Tech 21 B410 - 32kg, 8ohm, €700 Warwick WCA411ND - 28kg, 8ohm, €730 Above that kind of money is completely beyond balancing with the kind of money I spend on the rest of the stuff in my life. Is there any point in getting a cab like the Tech 21 B410, with an amp like the Tour 450, ProFet or LH500? Or is there any point in pairing an amp like a TC RH450 with a cab like the Laney RB410 (for example). With a ceiling of €800 to spend, is it possible to get a "good" (reliable, tough & versatile) 300w - 450w amp [i]and[/i] a "good" (again, reliable, tough & versatile) 30kg-ish 4x10 cab? I'm talking new here - I know 2nd hand stuff comes up here all the time, but getting anything from UK to Ireland would probably cancel out any savings. OR . . . Should I be looking at 2x12s? Most seem to be well under 30kg, some closer to 20kg. TC RS212 - 22kg, 8ohm, €600 GK Neo212-II - 23kg, 8ohm, €555 Maybe I'm out of touch, but without having heard it, I'm thinking the TC212 with a Tour 450/ProFet 3.3/LH500 might not cut it against my guitarist's Marshall 100w & 4x12 . . . Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Tried one of these which was pretty good - [url="http://purple-chili.com/bass-cabs/pcb410t.htm"]Purple-chili[/url] 23.5Kg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 [quote name='Phaedrus' post='677790' date='Dec 8 2009, 12:43 PM']....I'm tired of carrying my TNT150BW around....[/quote] Do you really need a cab the size of a 410 to replace your combo? I would also consider a good 115 (Compact) or pair of 112's (Aguilar), which would be light, loud, a quality tone and within your budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaedrus Posted December 8, 2009 Author Share Posted December 8, 2009 (edited) My TNT150 is only part of what I gig with - I also hook up my old drummer's BLX80, and TBH, I should have said I was looking for an upgrade from the TNT, rather than a replacement for it. I don't want to run out of power on bigger gigs or awkward stages anymore. A 4x10 will have a similar footprint to the TNT, but preferrably a lot lighter. Never heard of Purple Chili. £729 STG = €805, so not really in my range. Nice looking gear though. Am I ok with calling 30kg light? Mark Edited December 9, 2009 by Phaedrus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Burrito Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 [quote name='crez5150' post='677792' date='Dec 8 2009, 12:47 PM']Tried one of these which was pretty good - [url="http://purple-chili.com/bass-cabs/pcb410t.htm"]Purple-chili[/url] 23.5Kg[/quote] I was curious about this too. The review in the Bass Magazine (of a different model, mind) wasn't quite so good but I wondered if a different speaker configuration like 4x10 would sort that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 It's basically the new range of Zoot cabs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MythSte Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Well, My instinct would be to get the Hartke LH500, Specifically second hand from this very forum [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=70000"]Hartke LH500[/url] very simple, very powerful. best band for buck head out there at the moment in my very humble opinion! Then, I'd look at perhaps a Barefaced Compact. VERY light, and will out perform a lot of the 4x10's you've mentioned. [url="http://barefacedbass.com/index.php?page=compact"]Barefaced Compact[/url] Completly killer rig right there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 well, 30 odd kgs isn't light, IMV, but it might be light for a 4x10. A lot of people now go 2x 1x12... for a full range-ish 12 cab set up with horn. I prefer faster working 12's to 15's and only add a 15 if you really must have that depth. Having said that, I can think of a few 4x10's that would outperform most 15"s that I have come across, soundwise. 10" Neo's could do the job very well IMV... so a well made and sturdy 4x10 could be transformed by Neos.. I have 2 Deltalite Neos in my Goliath Jnrlll and it is a much better cab allround that the PAS version...IMV.. You should know waht sound you want.. a horn in the equation will give you upto 16khz or so...from the spec..but how useable that will be..??? Most 12 and 15's on their own go to 3.5khz..and that is strangling the sound, IMV... Horses for courses... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtimefred Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 [quote name='MythSte' post='678062' date='Dec 8 2009, 03:47 PM'][b]Compactly [/b]killer rig right there![/quote] corrected for ya dude! lol Sounds like a great set up! go get it bought! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaedrus Posted December 8, 2009 Author Share Posted December 8, 2009 That's interesting. Should I consider the Barefaced to be a high quality cab, a competitor for Epifani, EBS, Aguilar, etc? I'd place the LH500 as upper entry level, or lower mid-level, so you reckon placing these two together would be fine? I'm not in a position to buy now, so anyone else feel free to fire on. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 [quote name='Phaedrus' post='678044' date='Dec 8 2009, 03:28 PM']....My TNT150 is only part of what I gig with - I also hook up my old drummer's BLX80, and TBH, I should have said "upgrade from" rather than "replace" my TNT150. I don't want to run out of power on bigger gigs or awkward stages anymore. A 4x10 will have a similar footprint to the TNT, but preferrably a lot lighter....[/quote] To continue the discussion, I’m assuming that you’re not playing metal or stadiums, so these days I don’t believe you need a 410 to reach the back of the room. For example, a Markbass LM2 (£400 used) with a Compact (£450 new) or 2 GS112's (£400 used) will out perform your current gear by a mile and will easily match most 410’s in your budget range. The MB is 300 watts at 8 ohm and 500 watts at 4 ohm, so you won't run out of power and these cabs are in another league for tone, clarity and definition so you won’t get buried in the mix. Your bass will definitely cut right through to the back of the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MythSte Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 [quote name='Phaedrus' post='678118' date='Dec 8 2009, 04:26 PM']That's interesting. Should I consider the Barefaced to be a high quality cab, a competitor for Epifani, EBS, Aguilar, etc? I'd place the LH500 as upper entry level, or lower mid-level, so you reckon placing these two together would be fine? I'm not in a position to buy now, so anyone else feel free to fire on. Mark[/quote] Yes and Definitely Personally, If its mainly for live use i'd consider the cab to be a more important factor than the amp. There are obvious exclusions to this, but i know i'd prefer a high quality cab and a simple solid head if that's all money would allow The only thing about the compact is it doesnt have a tweeter, But speak to Alex, tell him what you like and im sure he'll be more than happy to advise you on the best course of action. he's dead good like that! wouldnt waste much time on the Hartke if you can afford it. I genuinly cant think of anything thats even half as good for that price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 [quote name='Phaedrus' post='678118' date='Dec 8 2009, 04:26 PM']That's interesting. Should I consider the Barefaced to be a high quality cab, a competitor for Epifani, EBS, Aguilar, etc? Mark[/quote] hmmm, don't know about that. On here you have a few people who like and use them, but maybe other websites didn't rate them as highly. Google a few ... Finnbass, for example. My take is that they are a 15" speaker in a small box built for lightweight carries. Fine, but the speakers are standard and the box is... well, have a look at the website. There is a no new magic here, no new science that the best cabinets builders have missed, just a different slant which centres around lightweight and volume so have a look at the build quality and the all round package and try one. Then if you still think they are in the same league, buy one. I think a lot of people talk these up...but I have heard just as many tell a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MythSte Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 [quote name='JTUK' post='678328' date='Dec 8 2009, 07:16 PM']hmmm, don't know about that. On here you have a few people who like and use them, but maybe other websites didn't rate them as highly. Google a few ... Finnbass, for example. My take is that they are a 15" speaker in a small box built for lightweight carries. Fine, but the speakers are standard and the box is... well, have a look at the website. There is a no new magic here, no new science that the best cabinets builders have missed, just a different slant which centres around lightweight and volume so have a look at the build quality and the all round package and try one. Then if you still think they are in the same league, buy one. I think a lot of people talk these up...but I have heard just as many tell a different story.[/quote] I see where you coming from, And im not going to get into a slanging match with you (I'm an owner, and i'd hate to be going "you need to buy what i use, yeah!) but there is slightly more to it than a 15" in a box. Things like sufficient bracing and correct porting make a bigger difference than people care to imagine. But of course, Seeing is believing (or not! As the case may be!) And there is a compact touring the UK so get yourself on the list! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I hate to say this, and this is all based on actually listening instead of the science, but there aren't any 1x15s you can replace a decent 4x10 with. If you want that much punch and volume, get a 4x10, or at least get a high end 2x12. Aguilar/Tecamp/Epifani and Bergantino are the best bet. Its better to save and get a high end 4 ohm cab with your description you gave of what you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 [quote name='MythSte' post='678618' date='Dec 8 2009, 10:58 PM']But of course, Seeing is believing (or not! As the case may be!)[/quote] I'd go "or not". I'd use my ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moos3h Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 What about two 2x10's? I've often thought this is the best of both worlds really....portable and for smaller things you can get away with just one. Cheers, James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I'd agree with EBS-freak here. After reading what Alex Claber has to say on the subject of speakers over the past couple of years, the number and size of the speakers in the cab is probably the least important consideration. I'd go with: 1. Does it sound right with my bass & amp? 2. Is it loud enough with my bass & amp? And if you don't have a road crew to do your transporting and setting up for you: 3. Is it easily moveable preferably on my own, or with the assistance of one other band member? 4. Will it fit in my car with all the other gear I need to take? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 [quote name='BigRedX' post='678967' date='Dec 9 2009, 12:17 PM']I'd agree with EBS-freak here. After reading what Alex Claber has to say on the subject of speakers over the past couple of years, the number and size of the speakers in the cab is probably the least important consideration. I'd go with: 1. Does it sound right with my bass & amp? 2. Is it loud enough with my bass & amp? And if you don't have a road crew to do your transporting and setting up for you: 3. Is it easily moveable preferably on my own, or with the assistance of one other band member? 4. Will it fit in my car with all the other gear I need to take?[/quote] Great minds think alike. Did you read my post at [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=70017&view=findpost&p=678919"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...st&p=678919[/url] ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 (edited) Yes but after I had posted this! Honest! Edited December 9, 2009 by BigRedX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MythSte Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 [quote name='Musicman20' post='678941' date='Dec 9 2009, 11:54 AM']I hate to say this, and this is all based on actually listening instead of the science, but there aren't any 1x15s you can replace a decent 4x10 with. If you want that much punch and volume, get a 4x10, or at least get a high end 2x12. Aguilar/Tecamp/Epifani and Bergantino are the best bet. Its better to save and get a high end 4 ohm cab with your description you gave of what you need.[/quote] Thats not the point we're making, the OP is on a relativly tight budget, especially for the brands your suggesting. Obviously, if he wants to go and spend more i think there are obviously better cabs out there than the Compact Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MythSte Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 [quote name='EBS_freak' post='678955' date='Dec 9 2009, 12:08 PM']I'd go "or not". I'd use my ears.[/quote] Hi, Im Stephen, And im awesome at shooting myself in the foot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaedrus Posted December 11, 2009 Author Share Posted December 11, 2009 Probably no definitive answer to this (so much possible variation), but do any of you guys have thoughts on what way you'd split your spend on an amp/cab purchase? 50/50? More on the amp? More on the cab? I'm thinking now that even if I force myself to get by with the TNT150 (I DI into our 4000w PA anyway), I couldn't justify spending much more than my €800 on an amp/cab - 3 kids, mortgage, hobby band (albeit with aspirations of doing two pub gigs a week and some functions/weddings), so even if I drew a line in the sand at €1000, I realise that's a relatively limited budget, despite still being a lot of cash. So maybe I'll look at the LH500 & a HyDrive 410? Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Personally I'd put that budget to a second hand sale, but you have your reasons so... 1 decent amp and a 4x10..assuming you want to carry that..will, IMO, be the best all round solution. I'd choose 10's over 15's anytime, either with our without horn. You may be able to get away with a single 15 depending on your sound pref and style of playing..IMV. If that combo above suits your budget and your playing, then that sounds a good deal. I don't know the gear but I assume you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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