Advice on PUPs & hardware for my new Ric

[Beedster]

Can I get people's impressions/experience of the various aftermarket PUPs available for Rics? I've just ordered a project fretless 4003 and although I've resigned myself to eventually paying huge sums of cash for authentic Ric PUPs I'm certainly considering other options, despite the considerable difference in aesthetic betwen Ric parts and, for example, SD. Also, while we're at it, what are your thoughts on bridges, Ric, Hipshot, or one of the 'aftermarket' models currently going for £80 or so on ebay?

You clearly take a big step down the financial food chain when you start trying to put together a Ric

Thanks all

Chris

Edited October 16, 2009 by Beedster

[Clarky]

[quote name='Beedster' post='580202' date='Aug 25 2009, 01:52 PM']Can I get people's impressions/experience of the various aftermarket PUPs available for Rics? I've just ordered a project fretless 4003 and although I've resigned myself to eventually paying huge sums of cash for authentic Ric PUPs I'm certainly considering other options, despite the considerable difference in aesthetic betwen Ric parts and, for example, SD. Also, while we're at it, what are your thoughts on bridges, Ric, Hipshot, or one of the 'aftermarket' modesl currently going for £80 or so on ebay?

You clearly take a big step down the financial food chain when you start trying to put together a Ric

Thanks all

Chris[/quote]
The Hipshot Rick-replacement bridge is MASSIVELY better than the original. Properly adjustable for individual strings/saddles etc. But of course its not 'real Rick' so traditionalists hate them. I have had both and the Hipshot is much better as a 'player's' bridge.

My last Rick had Bartolini Rick-replacement pickups which retain the Rick character but are much more beefy - bit like comparing a Seymour Duncan QP with a traditional P-bass pickup

Good luck mate!

[Toasted]

I think Bartolini make drop-in replacement.

[LeftyJ]

[quote name='Clarky' post='580213' date='Aug 25 2009, 02:57 PM']The Hipshot Rick-replacement bridge is MASSIVELY better than the original. Properly adjustable for individual strings/saddles etc. But of course its not 'real Rick' so traditionalists hate them. I have had both and the Hipshot is much better as a 'player's' bridge.[/quote]

I agree the Hipshot is a 'better' bridge in terms of adjustability, userfriendliness and playing comfort, but it it's not just the looks traditionalists don't like about them. They have a dramatic impact on the tone of your Ric. The Hipshot both brightens and fattens up your tone.

[4000]

Not tried the Hipshot (although I do think it's pig-ugly), but if it works then fine.

I'd stay away from the SDs; I had some and thought they were pants. The Barts are supposed to be good. You could try Aaron Armstrong and see if he'll make something or you could contact Sergio Silva on the Rick Resource Forum. Thing is, it depends what sort of Rick sound you're after. For instance I'm not keen on neck high-gains and prefer toasters. Plus they're all wound differently anyway....when my restoration gets to me (couple of weeks or so hopefully) I will have an early/mid 70s neck high-gain I could sell you for a decent price (it has been replaced with a '73 toaster).

[Bassassin]

If this was my project I'd take the opportunity to turn it into an interesting Rick variation - which would probably mean little or no "official" prts would be involved!

The Hipshot bridge is excellent - it's available in brass or aluminium, mine's brass and it's very heavy. According to the Rickresource guys the aluminium is tonally closer to the original Rick - but mortals like me probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

I'd probably put Seymour Dunks in it, based on availability & affordability. Also the bridge unit comes with its own pickup ring so that's one less part to source.

Rick tuners (or "keywinds" in Rickanese) are Schallers with a Rick logo - not sure what the exact model is but I expect the Rick logo adds a bit to the price...

Go to www.pickguardian.com for a scratchplate in the colour/material of your choice.

Jon.

[Clarky]

On the subject of Pickguardian, they do really neat bridge plates that mean that a fingerstyle player (like yourself) can rest their thumb comfortably, rather than risk falling into the gap around the pickup! See here [url="http://www.pickguardian.com/pickguardian/RICBridgePUPlate.html"]http://www.pickguardian.com/pickguardian/R...dgePUPlate.html[/url]

[Geddys nose]

The Hipshot Bridge is a big upgrade IMO you can get the action real low with it and if the neck has any twist you can get over this too but as others have said it is a boat anchor.

[Beedster]

Many thanks for the above guys, very useful stuff. Yes, having only ever really owned basses designed by Leo Fender (or derivatives of) I'm taking a real step into the unknown here. I've no idea exactly what the range of PUPs is and how each might influence tone, so I'm in something of a jam and need some help. Luckily I'm pretty skint so not in any great rush and I'm not going to go at it like a motorhead. I'm basically after a McCartney tone; I'll be either playing TI Jazz Flats or Rotosound Tru Bass (or similar). Remember it's fretless, so that will have an impact on the choice of PUPs and bridge.

All advice welcome

Edited August 25, 2009 by Beedster

[bassmachine2112]

hiho,I agree with the hipshot I have one fitted and well worth it.pick ups -give andy at wizard a shout and he will sort you out.you could darkstar it,never done it myself but I,m sure someone will chime in.Rick pups will give you a ricky sound.pickgaurdian have a loyal following and should be cheaper than standard parts.Truss rod cover if you need one could be a problem as RIC keep them very close to themselves.You have to return your original to them or half of it to get a replacement.I wish I had bought a black one years ago when they were available to go with my black scratchplate but that option has been put on hold cause it,s too much hassle sending them off to get changed back n forward if you fancy a change.Schallers are out there if you what model number they are and are excellent,put a set on my beater P-bass and it stays in tune perfectly.
keep us all informed of your progress and best of.

[mrcrow]

i fitted s-d replacement pups for ric...both humbuckers
and then fitted a badass II

i kept the ric stuff for resale...and sold it eventually

[Beedster]

[quote name='mrcrow' post='580665' date='Aug 25 2009, 08:31 PM']i fitted s-d replacement pups for ric...both humbuckers
and then fitted a badass II[/quote]

And what difference did these mods make over the stock parts?

[SS73]

Badass 1, not 2, 2 was designed as a direct fender spaced replacement bridge, I have a Badass 1 fitted on my 4001 and it is night and day diff to the ric one, sustain is probably the most noticable gain, purists really hate the Badass as its not really a direct fit and most muppets make a real ab...... of fitting them, I will post a pic if you like of how it should be done so it can be reversed.

Hipshot bridge is great, but if like me you think the original looks crap too, why bother, plus Aluminium? sonically has all the soul of an empty beer can, go Brass. The Badass is a Zinc/Brass etc Alloy I think.

Tuners are also pants, especially the ones with the plastic ferrels, I have schallers fitted and they also help with sustain. I also cast a Silver nut some years ago, this with all the rest make the whole Bass sing, strings also just seem to keep on ringing for months.

Not sure on pup's been quite happy with stock, but if you are going to use flats/fretless and stick with original pup's, fit the .0047 cap in the line from the bridge pup, this will give you the classic Ric sound. This cap was introduced because of flats and gives the bass a bit more high freq.

[NancyJohnson]

Concerning the pickups/loom I'd certainly be interested in how close and replacements sound to the original units. I've been a big fan of that Geddy Lee/Chris Squire sound, but I'm just no fan of the 4000 series shape; it just doesn't do it for me. I considered installing SDs on a project bass, but the over cost turned me away. (I'd be interested in the original Rickenbacker pickups if the project came with them though.)

I'm assuming that SD/Bart have done their homework and you'd hope that the replacements go some way to emulate that clank. I'm following this thread with interest.

Good luck with it.
P

[Beedster]

[quote name='Beedster' post='580614' date='Aug 25 2009, 07:37 PM']Many thanks for the above guys, very useful stuff. Yes, having only ever really owned basses designed by Leo Fender (or derivatives of) I'm taking a real step into the unknown here. I've no idea exactly what the range of PUPs is and how each might influence tone, so I'm in something of a jam and need some help. Luckily I'm pretty skint so not in any great rush and I'm not going to go at it like a motorhead. I'm basically after a McCartney tone; I'll be either playing TI Jazz Flats or Rotosound Tru Bass (or similar). Remember it's fretless, so that will have an impact on the choice of PUPs and bridge.

All advice welcome [/quote]

Disappointed no-one commented on my inclusion of four Ric playing bands there


[quote name='bassmachine2112' post='580648' date='Aug 25 2009, 08:22 PM']hiho,I agree with the hipshot I have one fitted and well worth it.pick ups -give andy at wizard a shout and he will sort you out.you could darkstar it,never done it myself but I,m sure someone will chime in.Rick pups will give you a ricky sound.pickgaurdian have a loyal following and should be cheaper than standard parts.Truss rod cover if you need one could be a problem as RIC keep them very close to themselves.You have to return your original to them or half of it to get a replacement.I wish I had bought a black one years ago when they were available to go with my black scratchplate but that option has been put on hold cause it,s too much hassle sending them off to get changed back n forward if you fancy a change.Schallers are out there if you what model number they are and are excellent,put a set on my beater P-bass and it stays in tune perfectly.
keep us all informed of your progress and best of.[/quote]

Thanks BM2112 (do I detect an affinity with a Canadian band there?). I am leaning towards the Hipshot for sure, I'm really needing sustain and depth (there's a post below suggesting I go brass which I might investigate further). I've emailed Andy to see what he can offer.

If you only have to return half your truss rod cover, does that mean you can get two new ones by returning - albeit at different times - two old halves?


[quote name='SS73' post='580922' date='Aug 26 2009, 05:40 AM']Badass 1, not 2, 2 was designed as a direct fender spaced replacement bridge, I have a Badass 1 fitted on my 4001 and it is night and day diff to the ric one, sustain is probably the most noticable gain, purists really hate the Badass as its not really a direct fit and most muppets make a real ab...... of fitting them, I will post a pic if you like of how it should be done so it can be reversed.

Hipshot bridge is great, but if like me you think the original looks crap too, why bother, plus Aluminium? sonically has all the soul of an empty beer can, go Brass. The Badass is a Zinc/Brass etc Alloy I think.

Tuners are also pants, especially the ones with the plastic ferrels, I have schallers fitted and they also help with sustain. I also cast a Silver nut some years ago, this with all the rest make the whole Bass sing, strings also just seem to keep on ringing for months.

Not sure on pup's been quite happy with stock, but if you are going to use flats/fretless and stick with original pup's, fit the .0047 cap in the line from the bridge pup, this will give you the classic Ric sound. This cap was introduced because of flats and gives the bass a bit more high freq.[/quote]

Thanks SS73, interesting thoughts on the bridge, as I said above, I'm certainly leaning towards a bras Hipshot (assuming I can get one). TBH I prefer the looks of the Ric bridge to the Badass so it would have to provide a substantial improvement over the Hipshot for me to fit one, especially as it's not a rirect replacement. It would be good to see pics of yours however if you had them to hand?

[quote name='NancyJohnson' post='580940' date='Aug 26 2009, 08:14 AM']Concerning the pickups/loom I'd certainly be interested in how close and replacements sound to the original units. I've been a big fan of that Geddy Lee/Chris Squire sound, but I'm just no fan of the 4000 series shape; it just doesn't do it for me. I considered installing SDs on a project bass, but the over cost turned me away. (I'd be interested in the original Rickenbacker pickups if the project came with them though.)

I'm assuming that SD/Bart have done their homework and you'd hope that the replacements go some way to emulate that clank. I'm following this thread with interest.

Good luck with it.
P[/quote]

Thanks NJ. The PUPs are proving to be the biggest headache at present, partly because of my lack of familiarity with all things Ric, but perhaps moreso because they're bloody expensive and if I try and don't like Ill be considerably out of pocket even if I can sell them on. I have to be honest and say that this is all being done on a whim, a few months back Happy Jack waved a lovely fretless 4003 under my nose and until that day I didn't even realise they existed. I'd certainly never wanted a fretted Ric. Anyway, up comes this rather interesting project fretless Ric on ebay and, having had a chat with Colin Beswick who was the seller, I decided to go for it. What appeals to me is neck through, the stunning aesthetic (bound mapleglo), the stereo outs, but most of all the project aspect, the opportunity to build a unique but classic instrument. What worries me is the pure Marmite factor of Rics - my research to date suggests that more people don't like them than do (often due either to the width or the lack of taper of the neck, especially on the recent models). However, I'm guessing that by doing my homework now I can get a bass that's gonna sound how I want it to, that is, full and fat, to compliment my rather sinuous sounding fretless Jazz and my rather thumpy and middy fretless Precision. As I think I said above, I'm definitely after a more McCartney tone than a Geddy or Squire (I'm not sure anyone wants to hear clanky fretless), although I'm aware that the classic McCartney Ric tone was likely recorded on a Jazz anyway!

Please keep the advice and opinions coming folks, I'm loving the leap into the unknown and the more info I get the better this bass is gonna be

Chris

[4000]

I didn't find the SDs sounded much like the pickups they replaced. I expected the SD bridge pickup to sound like a beefier version of the original, but it actually sounded more nasal to me. YMMV. The neck pickup was crisper (ceramic magnets I believe) but lacked the character.

BTW, I've played SS73s bass and it does sound excellent, and that with only the bridge pickup. Something he's done certainly works.

SS73, how did the Twin Valve work out? Nice to see you posting!

[simon1964]

[quote name='Beedster' post='580990' date='Aug 26 2009, 09:19 AM']As I think I said above, I'm definitely after a more McCartney tone than a Geddy or Squire (I'm not sure anyone wants to hear clanky fretless), although I'm aware that the classic McCartney Ric tone was likely recorded on a Jazz anyway!

Chris[/quote]

My ric is stock, but I have played one with Barts fitted. To me, the Barts sounded more generic. They lacked the growl/clank/top end of the stock Ric pickups. But that may well be more suited to a fretless?

That having been said, you can certainly get fat sounds out of the stock pickups. Simply dial in the neck pickup and string it with flats. Classic thumpy McCartney sound.

[GreeneKing]

Not all Hipshot replacement bridges are aluminium. The one I fitted weighed a tonne

Edited August 26, 2009 by GreeneKing

[Beedster]

[quote]I didn't find the SDs sounded much like the pickups they replaced. I expected the SD bridge pickup to sound like a beefier version of the original, but it actually sounded more nasal to me. YMMV. The neck pickup was crisper (ceramic magnets I believe) but lacked the character.

BTW, I've played SS73s bass and it does sound excellent, and that with only the bridge pickup. Something he's done certainly works.

SS73, how did the Twin Valve work out? Nice to see you posting![/quote]


[quote name='simon1964' post='581021' date='Aug 26 2009, 09:38 AM']My ric is stock, but I have played one with Barts fitted. To me, the Barts sounded more generic. They lacked the growl/clank/top end of the stock Ric pickups. But that may well be more suited to a fretless?

That having been said, you can certainly get fat sounds out of the stock pickups. Simply dial in the neck pickup and string it with flats. Classic thumpy McCartney sound.[/quote]

PUPs and tone are so subjective aren't they? I'm starting to think that the best bet is going to be original Ric parts, and if I can't get the sound I want, then start modifying. It's a vintage Ric sound I'm after so I guess I'll get that best from parts that sound was originally created on?

[quote name='GreeneKing' post='581051' date='Aug 26 2009, 10:06 AM']Not all Hipshot replacement bridges are aluminium. The one I fitted weighed a tonne [/quote]

That'll be the brass one then


Anyone tried these Allparts Ric bridges?

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-Chrome-Tailpiece-Bridge-For-Rickenbacker-Bass_W0QQitemZ130321796202QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGuitar_Accessories?hash=item1e57c8cc6a&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-Chrome-Tailpiece...id=p3286.c0.m14[/url]

Chris

Edited August 26, 2009 by Beedster

[Clarky]

[quote name='Beedster' post='581234' date='Aug 26 2009, 12:16 PM']I'm starting to think that the best bet is going to be original Ric parts[/quote]

Good shout IMHO as far as pickups go as thats the sound you were after in the first place. Would still consider a Hipshot bridge though purely for adjustability.

[Beedster]

[quote name='Clarky' post='581262' date='Aug 26 2009, 12:35 PM']Good shout IMHO as far as pickups go as thats the sound you were after in the first place. Would still consider a Hipshot bridge though purely for adjustability.[/quote]

Couple of people have said the Hipshots look horrid on a Ric - what are your thoughts Clarky?

PS, forgot to reply to your PM, I was NEVER going to put a Badass II on it anyway, just intrigued as to how it would sound. Interesting post above though about a Badass I?

Edited August 26, 2009 by Beedster

[NancyJohnson]

[quote name='Beedster' post='580990' date='Aug 26 2009, 09:19 AM']What worries me is the pure Marmite factor of Rics[/quote]

In my formulative years, it came as no surprise to me that Steve Priest (Sweet), Geddy Lee and Bruce Foxton grabbed my attention. I did go through a phase where I just adored them - obviously given the above - but aside from a very nasty Hondo II copy I didn't bite.

As the years rolled on, I fell out of love with the body shape and it seemed that irrespective of the bass used, I was always getting a close emulation of that 4000-series tone, so that kind of satiated my desire. I've seen a handful of very pretty all-black 4000s recently that have made my heart skip a beat and [lack of a mortgage] has reignited my interest. I guess I'd just like to try one for a rehearsal and see whether I'd been making a mistake in non-ownership over the last thirty years.

P

[Clarky]

[quote name='Beedster' post='581268' date='Aug 26 2009, 12:40 PM']Couple of people have said the Hipshots look horrid on a Ric - what are your thoughts Clarky?

PS, forgot to reply to your PM, I was NEVER going to put a Badass II on it anyway, just intrigued as to how it would sound. Interesting post above though about a Badass I?[/quote]
Here is a pic of a Hipshot as compared with a stock Ric. Looks pretty similar to the original to my mind (not easy given how fiddly looking a Ric bridge is) and anyone from ten paces would think the Hipshot was an actual Ric bridge. The only real giveaway is the absence of mute screws either side

[attachment=31588:hip.jpg][attachment=31590:bridge.jpg]

Edited August 26, 2009 by Clarky

[Beedster]

[quote name='Clarky' post='581281' date='Aug 26 2009, 12:47 PM']Oops wrong pic will re-post![/quote]

I wonder what the wrong pic was.......? It certainly came down quick, anything incriminating mate

[Beedster]

[quote name='NancyJohnson' post='581269' date='Aug 26 2009, 12:42 PM']In my formulative years, it came as no surprise to me that Steve Priest (Sweet), Geddy Lee and Bruce Foxton grabbed my attention. I did go through a phase where I just adored them - obviously given the above - but aside from a very nasty Hondo II copy I didn't bite.

As the years rolled on, I fell out of love with the body shape and it seemed that irrespective of the bass used, I was always getting a close emulation of that 4000-series tone, so that kind of satiated my desire. I've seen a handful of very pretty all-black 4000s recently that have made my heart skip a beat and [lack of a mortgage] has reignited my interest. I guess I'd just like to try one for a rehearsal and see whether I'd been making a mistake in non-ownership over the last thirty years.

P[/quote]

Funny, I felt the same about Stingrays, played them about 30 years after first seeing them, loved them, then went back to Fenders after a year or two. Glad I did though, knowing something isn't right is as important as knowing it is.

I think Rics, like 'Rays, have a certain iconic appeal to anyone older than 40