thunderbird13 Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Hi, I've just jointed a new band and although most of the songs are straightforward rock they are all around the 7 minute mark with lots of different parts to each song. At the moment I'm learning them just by counting the various bits out loud e.g. 6 on the E riff followed by 8 on the A riff then 2 on the D riff and then playing them at home over and over again until they become second nature then I can worry about feel and putting fills in. This is taking me ages to learn and I wondered if anyone has come across an easier method to learn structures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Sounds like the best way to me. Learn the chord changes, then put in the fills. The more you learn songs, the easier it gets. A Tascam CD-BT bass trainer will make it easier, as it has a useful looping feature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bythesea Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 [quote name='Pete Academy' post='566999' date='Aug 12 2009, 05:20 PM']Sounds like the best way to me. Learn the chord changes, then put in the fills. The more you learn songs, the easier it gets. A Tascam CD-BT bass trainer will make it easier, as it has a useful looping feature.[/quote] +1 on the trainer. I have the MP3 version which is great. You can also slow things down without changing pitch which is useful for those tricky bits. If there are words learn those as well, even if you aren't going to sing them. Will help with knowing when the changes will come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenochrome Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 I chart things out by hand using my own shorthand - it does help! Learning the words for vocal cues helps as does repeated listening, even when doing other tasks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Put them on an MP3 player and listen to the songs until they're embedded in your head, don't over-think them counting etc Get he feel. Then get your bass out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozzbass Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 [quote name='Adrenochrome' post='567073' date='Aug 12 2009, 06:14 PM']I chart things out by hand using my own shorthand - it does help![/quote] +1 I find writing anything down helps memory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamapirate Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Seriously, write it down, learn it from memory, say it out loud, put it in your bed, write it back-to-front on your forehead so that when you look in the mirror in the morning you can see it there, write it on the door of your toilet so that whenever you're on the loo you can read it, just learn the damn songs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderbird13 Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 I agree with writing them down its just that whenever I play the songs I'm feel that I'm playing very mechanically and trying to anticipate the next change by thinking too much about it rather than grooving. I suppose its just a matter of jamming it through and getting comfortable with the material which is quite complicated. Just seems to take me ages to get to that stage !!! As far as the Tascam CD-BT is concerned I have tried Windows Media Player which will slow songs down up to 50 % although I dont really find that useful , does the Tascam do it differently that WMP ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Any of these slowing down and looping things (actually, mostly the bit that just lets you keep starting at a particular point) help enormously. You can get the reasonably expensive Tascam thing or software to do it on your computer. I find out / work out / guess the chord progressions and write them down ( e.g. Verse | A | A | Cm | Cm | repeat x2) plus any other vital notes (e.g. bass comes in 2nd time through verse 1). Just stuff to help me remember. It doesn't even need to be spot on accurate. The act of doing this forces you to listen properly and 'get' the form of the song. Also, don't underestimate the power of actually listening to the song. If you are not familiar with the songs, put them on your iPod and just listen to them everywhere you go until you are sick of hearing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peted Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I have to fight the temptation to start by picking up my bass first - especially when I'm unfamiliar with the track. What seems to be most productive is to really listen to the track as background music while going about your daily business which makes me far more productive when I do actually sit down with the music and my bass. I burn the tracks to a CD and put it in my car stereo and on my mp3 player when I'm walking to work. The, when I've heard each track a good dozen-or-so times and It's worked its way into my subconsious I put that CD in my Tascam Bass Trainer and actually pick up a bass to work it out. Far more productive as I'm not trying to work out the notes at the same time as the arrangement. I've also found that If I write down the notes and arrangement that I rely too much on that sheet and have trouble committing it to memory. Might be different for others though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bythesea Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 [quote name='thunderbird13' post='567697' date='Aug 13 2009, 09:48 AM']As far as the Tascam CD-BT is concerned I have tried Windows Media Player which will slow songs down up to 50 % although I dont really find that useful , does the Tascam do it differently that WMP ?[/quote] I haven't tried it with WMP so don't know if it does this, but you need something that slows down while keeping the pitch the same. The Tascam does this (and other similar pieces of kit) and as thepurpleblob says you can also get software that does it on your PC for much less (or zero) cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urban Bassman Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 All the advise is useful (I don't have a tascam gadget myself ) but all the stuff is the only way. I also find that listening to the song on different players helps..sounds strange but your car's CD player will bring out different frequencies than your computers speakers will or your home hi fi, Ipod etc. Quite often you'll be struggling to hear what's going on but then you listen to it again somewhere else and there it is. How often have you had the "I never heard that before" experience....Probably because you never heard it on that particular hi fi before. I have a really crappy portable CD player, it has virtually no bass response at all. But that's great because once I've learnt the song I can use that to play along with and you're not competing against the existing bass line - bass karaoke if you like. Keep at it, it'll come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 +1 to all the comments about repeated listening. If I'm learning stuff for a gig, it goes on a CD, into my work van, and stays on repeat for a few days until I can hear it in my sleep. You'd be amazed the difference it makes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderbird13 Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 [quote name='urban Bassman' post='567833' date='Aug 13 2009, 12:00 PM']I have a really crappy portable CD player, it has virtually no bass response at all. But that's great because once I've learnt the song I can use that to play along with and you're not competing against the existing bass line - bass karaoke if you like.[/quote] Thats a good idea As for repeated listening I have been doing that but I'm at the stage where I 'm sick of hearing them now - prob my mind telling me to take a break for a while ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 [quote name='thepurpleblob' post='567713' date='Aug 13 2009, 09:58 AM']....I find out / work out / guess the chord progressions and write them down....[/quote] +1. Make sure you're all learning the same version. That crops up so many times; ie the studio vs live version!! Chart the number, bars, chords, stops, riffs, etc and make sure you're ok with the fingering. Then it's just a slog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leschirons Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 [quote name='TimR' post='567326' date='Aug 12 2009, 08:31 PM']Put them on an MP3 player and listen to the songs until they're embedded in your head, don't over-think them counting etc Get he feel. Then get your bass out.[/quote] +1 here. I get all the songs slotted in the brain-box first before I start playing. You should be able to "listen" to the whole song in your head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 [quote name='TimR' post='567326' date='Aug 12 2009, 09:31 PM']Put them on an MP3 player and listen to the songs until they're embedded in your head, don't over-think them counting etc Get he feel. Then get your bass out.[/quote] +1. That way, you're playing the song, not a collection of parts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leonshelley01 Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 [quote name='chris_b' post='570399' date='Aug 16 2009, 03:03 AM']+1. Make sure you're all learning the same version. That crops up so many times; ie the studio vs live version!! Chart the number, bars, chords, stops, riffs, etc and make sure you're ok with the fingering. Then it's just a slog.[/quote] And make sure you learn it in the same agreed key! We agreed to play Basket Case by Green Day, so I transpose it up a semi-tone so I don't have to fanny around with different tunings, one guitarist tunes down to Eflat to play along with the record and the other guitarist plays it in Eflat but with standard tuning. Needless to say, first run through at rehearsal was not great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 My favourite is a chord chart with the fills or tricks detailed but that is because a lot of my gigs are like this anyway.. I can see why this might be harder to register back to memory as you can rely on pads as a kind of crutch.. But in time, you can just develop a shorthand and use it as a prompt and not something you need for every bar.. This is good practise if you every see yourself in a more formal sitiuation so get in the habit of making notes and maybe use the numbers method where the route of the key is 1, 4th =4, 5th =5 etc etc Makes transposing really easy as well ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcrow Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 a little diagram is helpful i used to just jot down the roots in 4 beat bars D///G///A/B/D//// etc then learn them by heart or shape Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMX Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Practice the song through jamming to it, your muscle memory will develop for it. Also, listen to the song a lot and know it inside out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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