GreeneKing Posted July 14, 2009 Author Share Posted July 14, 2009 The story has drawn to a logical, some would say inevitable conclusion I popped in this morning with my Overwater Progress III deluxe to see what they could ofer in p/x with a minimum figure in my head. They bettered it by £50 so inevitable consequences followed The Overwater is in many ways a far superior instrument but my ACG covers all it's bases and then some. The Fender (I can't quite believe I'm becoming a Fender owner) is a superb and very lightweight example that has a tone only a good P can produce so it earns a place in my diminished collection. So a Jazz and a Precision, albeit only one a Fender are now in my mitts and for all my lack of Fender love I'm quite happy to admit that they do their job bloody well and in a tonal way that nothing else quite does. Of course my Harlot is far more versatile. I believe it comes with a pair of ashtrays too that may need to be drilled in, do I or don't I? It's a 60's re-issue American Vintage btw. The inevitable photos will of course follow. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomEndian Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 [quote name='Mikey R' post='540230' date='Jul 14 2009, 12:29 PM']Huh? I Ive seen tonnes of shops with no price tags - if you have to ask you cant afford. [/quote] The Price Marking Order 2004 states that prices must be "unambiguous, easily identifiable and clearly legible", and that "consumers should not have to ask for assistance in order to be able to see a price" (actually, that second quote comes from the Guidance Notes for the Order). As for the whole matter of things being wrongly priced, it seems that the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 suggests that things should be sold for the price at which they are visibly marked in the shop. [b]However[/b], it's only likely to be enforced if it's something that happens regularly in a business. In the OP's case, it was clearly an error, and Trading Standards probably wouldn't side against the shop. Caveat: I'm no legal expert, so this is all IMO, IME and YMMV. Maybe a BC legal eagle might like to swoop in and clarify... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 [quote name='GreeneKing' post='540240' date='Jul 14 2009, 12:37 PM']The story has drawn to a logical, some would say inevitable conclusion I popped in this morning with my Overwater Progress III deluxe to see what they could ofer in p/x with a minimum figure in my head. They bettered it by £50 so inevitable consequences followed The Overwater is in many ways a far superior instrument but my ACG covers all it's bases and then some. The Fender (I can't quite believe I'm becoming a Fender owner) is a superb and very lightweight example that has a tone only a good P can produce so it earns a place in my diminished collection. So a Jazz and a Precision, albeit only one a Fender are now in my mitts and for all my lack of Fender love I'm quite happy to admit that they do their job bloody well and in a tonal way that nothing else quite does. Of course my Harlot is far more versatile. I believe it comes with a pair of ashtrays too that may need to be drilled in, do I or don't I? It's a 60's re-issue American Vintage btw. The inevitable photos will of course follow. Peter[/quote] Fabulous! Congratulations! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobiebass Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Depends on your morrels really, I think I wouldnt have asked about the jag label and bought it if it was a large chain of stores, but if it was a side street independent shop id feel terrible. My guitarist picked up a US Strat for a knock down price of £590 and when they typed the figure into the card reading machine they forgot the last zero so he paid £59 for it, needless to say he didnt say anything and walked away with it. He hasnt been back to the shop since lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Congratulations Peter, everyone needs a P at some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey R Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 (edited) [quote name='GreeneKing' post='540240' date='Jul 14 2009, 12:37 PM']I believe it comes with a pair of ashtrays too that may need to be drilled in, do I or don't I?[/quote] Easy answer for me - I find ashtrays to be useless and just get in the way of a propper floating thumb. I cant see how you would mute the strings with them on! Nice purchase Peter! We'll have to compare P's next time we meet... Edited July 14, 2009 by Mikey R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon1964 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Spartacus' post='539547' date='Jul 13 2009, 06:25 PM']Not true im afraid. If they price it incorrectly you cant force them to sell it to you at the lower price. The precision had a Jaguar price ticket on which is different to being deliberately misleading, in which case its a case for Trading Standards.[/quote] That's wrong I'm afraid. The contract for sale (and therefore the obligation to sell) isn't concluded until the seller agrees to sell at that price (eg by accepting the cash at the till). As previously posted, until then its an invitation to treat - advertising goods at a particular price is not the same as a formal contractual offer to sell at that price. This was established 50+ years ago in a case called Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain v Boots Cash Chemists Ltd. A while since I did any contract law, but as far as I'm aware its still the case. Mispricing may result an offence committed under the Trade Descriptions legislation, but that doesn't mean there's an obligation to sell at the marked price. Edited July 14, 2009 by simon1964 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon1964 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Hot Tub' post='539758' date='Jul 13 2009, 09:47 PM']I'd always understood that what I posted was right enough (or I wouldn't have posted it!). I have the resources at hand at work to check for sure. [/quote] Boring five minutes at work, so I decided to look at the Trading Standards web site here: [url="http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/advice/problemswithgoods-sum3.cfm"]http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/advice/...hgoods-sum3.cfm[/url] They say: [font="Comic Sans MS"]The buyer cannot insist that a trader sells anything at the marked price, whether or not the trader has made a mistake. However, action can be taken against the trader for giving a misleading price indication. A number of unfair pricing practices are banned[/font] Edited July 14, 2009 by simon1964 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razze06 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 My only personal experience in mis-pricing on label was last year at gatwick airport, where i spotted a small laptop i've been looking up online for some time, priced at about 75% of its RRP (£211 vs £275 RRP). I quickly picked it up and broguht it to the till, where the guy told me that the total was the full £275. I told him that he had it labelled at £211, we went to the stand where the label was, checked serial numbers against the one i picked up, and agreed that that was indeed the advertised price for the item, and charged me accordingly. Obvious pricing mistake and a nice £64 pounds saved. I bet he would have been far less forthcoming, had price difference been a lot more substantial, such as is the case of the lovely P bass in question. Again, another anecdote that doesn't prove anything, but at least it's firsthand experience... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Tub Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 [quote name='silddx' post='539786' date='Jul 13 2009, 10:03 PM']Mate, trust. I, like I suspect others here, studied some contract law. I can dig out the case if you want? Ok I have, [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisher_v_Bell"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisher_v_Bell[/url] Oh, and Wikipedia is correct in this instance. Cheers, Nigel PS. You can actually get away with your way of thinking due to the ignorance of some shop staff.[/quote] Cheers mate, you (and others) are quite correct. I shall now put the computer down, and step away from the keyboard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted July 14, 2009 Author Share Posted July 14, 2009 I once bought a pair of Oakleys for £65. The shop assistant realised they were incorrectly priced (they were actually just about the most expensive Oakleys) and phoned her boss who said 'sell them for the price on the label'. People should really know the law if they're going to own a shop methinks. I've also been refused a CD box set marked at a very low price. Photos of the P are ready but Photobucket is down at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted July 14, 2009 Author Share Posted July 14, 2009 Here's the beast. I prefer the pickup covers on and find the thumb position more comfortable than on the pickup, even with a floating thumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelk27 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 (edited) [quote name='GreeneKing' post='539517' date='Jul 13 2009, 05:03 PM']Noticing that there was a white US P in the shop I helped myself ... . It was marked as a Jaguar (!) and was reduced to £699. ... I asked about the label saying 'Jaguar' - doh. Seems wrong label was put on the bass and this particular white P is actually £1799 ...[/quote] The Queen's Bench decision in Boots Cash Chemists did indeed establish the law, with respect to the point at which a contract comes into being. However, in the situation outlined by the OP it would not be necessary to resort to this argument. The situation outlined is not one of mispricing but of misdescription. Such a misdescription would give rise to an essential error. Such error being discoverable would not have made a concluded contract a nullity but would certainly give a vendor the right to decline to contract, without a prospective purchaser having any right of recourse to current legislation. In the outlined situation the attempt to contract falls at an early stage, that of consensus as to description. The current statute law as it relates to mispricing was introduced to cover such situations as dual labelling, not that outlined by the OP, or postulated on by the vast majority of those commentating. [quote name='razze06' post='540425' date='Jul 14 2009, 03:07 PM']My only personal experience in mis-pricing on label was last year at gatwick airport, where i spotted a small laptop i've been looking up online for some time, priced at about 75% of its RRP (£211 vs £275 RRP). I quickly picked it up and broguht it to the till, where the guy told me that the total was the full £275. I told him that he had it labelled at £211, we went to the stand where the label was, checked serial numbers against the one i picked up, and agreed that that was indeed the advertised price for the item, and charged me accordingly. Obvious pricing mistake and a nice £64 pounds saved. ... Again, another anecdote that doesn't prove anything, but at least it's firsthand experience...[/quote] In the situation you've outlined, I wonder if this was an error made by the vendor's employee not fully understanding the operation of the duty-free pricing procedures which operate in airports, and retailing you an item absent of duty (a situation you may, or may not, have been entitled to avail yourself of, depending on your travel entitlements). It is common practice for the prices displayed in duty-free retail zones to show the price before the application of duties, with a statement displayed on the premises as to this circumstance - the rates of duty to be applied appended for the attention of non-entitled purchasers. Just an observation. [quote name='GreeneKing' post='540518' date='Jul 14 2009, 04:29 PM']People should really know the law if they're going to own a shop methinks.[/quote] While I accept your basic point, I would suggest that there are many acts we undertake on a daily basis, among these many connected with our professions, that we do not fully comprehend in their legal context. In the circumstances, it does seem the issues you outline are human errors as to such tasks as labelling etc, and not necessarily misapprehension as to the law generally. Edited July 14, 2009 by noelk27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted July 14, 2009 Author Share Posted July 14, 2009 From your vernacular I'd guess you are a lawyer Sir? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 [quote name='GreeneKing' post='540533' date='Jul 14 2009, 05:43 PM']Here's the beast. I prefer the pickup covers on and find the thumb position more comfortable than on the pickup, even with a floating thumb. [/quote] Me likey me do should have bought that one Pete! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Bee-yootiful. A good P is worth its weight in gold.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Very very nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 You're in good company now: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machines Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Who, GreeneKing or Elvis ? . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 [quote name='Machines' post='540613' date='Jul 14 2009, 07:08 PM']Who, GreeneKing or Elvis ? .[/quote] Both, of course. I read somewhere McCartney has the Elvis bass now so he's in the good company of Peter too. Well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartacus Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 (edited) [quote name='simon1964' post='540357' date='Jul 14 2009, 02:35 PM']That's wrong I'm afraid. The contract for sale (and therefore the obligation to sell) isn't concluded until the seller agrees to sell at that price (eg by accepting the cash at the till). As previously posted, until then its an invitation to treat - advertising goods at a particular price is not the same as a formal contractual offer to sell at that price. This was established 50+ years ago in a case called Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain v Boots Cash Chemists Ltd. A while since I did any contract law, but as far as I'm aware its still the case. Mispricing may result an offence committed under the Trade Descriptions legislation, but that doesn't mean there's an obligation to sell at the marked price.[/quote] You missunderstood me, I meant that it would be a case for Trades Descriptions had they deliberately mispriced the bass, and as the label said 'Jaguar £XXX' it was an obvious mistake, not deliberately misleading. [quote name='simon1964' post='540395' date='Jul 14 2009, 03:31 PM']Boring five minutes at work, so I decided to look at the Trading Standards web site here: [url="http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/advice/problemswithgoods-sum3.cfm"]http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/advice/...hgoods-sum3.cfm[/url] They say: [font="Comic Sans MS"]The buyer cannot insist that a trader sells anything at the marked price, whether or not the trader has made a mistake. However, action can be taken against the trader for giving a misleading price indication. A number of unfair pricing practices are banned[/font][/quote] Thats what I said, The label said 'Jaguar, £599'. I already said the buyer cant insist the trader sells. It said Jaguar on the label. It was a P-bass. D'oh. Bloody ambulance chasers Nice bass though but not jazz shaped enough Edited July 14, 2009 by Spartacus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomEndian Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 [quote name='noelk27' post='540537' date='Jul 14 2009, 05:47 PM']The Queen's Bench decision in Boots Cash Chemists did indeed establish the law, with respect to the point at which a contract comes into being. However, in the situation outlined by the OP it would not be necessary to resort to this argument. The situation outlined is not one of mispricing but of misdescription. Such a misdescription would give rise to an essential error. Such error being discoverable would not have made a concluded contract a nullity but would certainly give a vendor the right to decline to contract, without a prospective purchaser having any right of recourse to current legislation. In the outlined situation the attempt to contract falls at an early stage, that of consensus as to description.[/quote] Mmmmmm. I usually have to ring an 090 number to get filthy stuff like that. "I've been a naughty barrister. Disbar me!" Praise be to Basschat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon1964 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Spartacus' post='540628' date='Jul 14 2009, 07:31 PM']You missunderstood me, I meant that it would be a case for Trades Descriptions had they deliberately mispriced the bass..... Bloody ambulance chasers [/quote] Just re-read your post, and you're absolutely right, I hadn't read it properly. Humble apologies Actually, I'm not one of the ambulance chasers - but I do spend all day defending their claims! Edited July 14, 2009 by simon1964 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey R Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 [quote name='GreeneKing' post='540533' date='Jul 14 2009, 05:43 PM']Here's the beast. I prefer the pickup covers on and find the thumb position more comfortable than on the pickup, even with a floating thumb.[/quote] Very nice! Ive always found the cover gets in the way and I cant mute with my thumb - what am I doing wrong? Is your thumb in front or behind the cover? Maybe its because I like to play with fingers over the neck pickup, rather than between pickup and neck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted July 15, 2009 Author Share Posted July 15, 2009 [quote name='Mikey R' post='541181' date='Jul 15 2009, 12:23 PM']Very nice! Ive always found the cover gets in the way and I cant mute with my thumb - what am I doing wrong? Is your thumb in front or behind the cover? Maybe its because I like to play with fingers over the neck pickup, rather than between pickup and neck?[/quote] Hiya Mikey I either anchor my thumb on the back of the cover/float it behind for a brighter tone or move my thumb to the top of the pickguard/float it in front of the cover for a more bluesey tone. It gives me two distinct positions that I like rather than having to think about a broader range of tonal possibilities The pickguard is drilled for a finger rest in accordance with 62 spec and I'm going to fit an ebony one if only to cover up the holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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