Why weak wattage?

[Stub Mandrel]

6 hours ago, godathunder said:

Do you think that all manufacturers measure their amps' power output the same way?

 

Do you believe in fairies and a flat earth? 😁

[godathunder]

5 hours ago, TimR said:

 

No. They don't.

 

There will be a THD% accompanying the X Watts at 1kHz. That will tell you how much distortion the amp suffers at that output. The lower the better. 

 

 

it's not just the thd that differs although thats a biggie.

how long did it sustain this output power before limiting kicks in?

at what frequency (was it 20-20k or just 1k)?

what is the crest factor of the signal used?

was the amp degraded or damaged to produce this figure?

are the quoted watts rms, peak, music power or aes (among others)? (aes should be the modern standard but Im still skeptical that it's evenly applied)

what was the ambient temperature when tested?

was the test carried out using a passive or reactive load (can the amp absorb the back emf generated by a speaker and still retain control of the coil)

 

that's just off the top of my head. there is just too much wiggle room to skew results, making the figures pretty easy to inflate and ultimately pointless

 

similarly, I have some led lighting that's marketed as c700w. actual power consumption is nearer 100w so this bullshit isnt just inflicted on the audio sector

[godathunder]

1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

Do you believe in fairies and a flat earth? 😁

 

I have more faith in both than I do in your average piece of audio marketing fluff 

[Stub Mandrel]

4 hours ago, godathunder said:

similarly, I have some led lighting that's marketed as c700w. actual power consumption is nearer 100w so this bullshit isnt just inflicted on the audio sector

 

My Orange Terror is rated 500W. The power consumption is given as 650W. This is unusual (although @agedhorse explained that most amps typically quote a value based on an assumed duty cycle).

 

I also respect Vox; they understate their amp power. The AC30 is comparable to a Marshall 100W. My Vox Valvestate 20 is a 30W amp.

[Beedster]

I plug in my 600w Mesa head and 1516 cab at home, at rehearsals, and on stage. If I want more volume I turn it up, if I want less I turn it down. Occasionally I feel it would be easier to have a smaller and lighter rig for smaller gigs, but I get over it once I hear it

[agedhorse]

2 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

My Orange Terror is rated 500W. The power consumption is given as 650W. This is unusual (although @agedhorse explained that most amps typically quote a value based on an assumed duty cycle).

 

I also respect Vox; they understate their amp power. The AC30 is comparable to a Marshall 100W. My Vox Valvestate 20 is a 30W amp.

 

The safety regulatory statement for power consumption is required by the standards (UL/cUL/IEC 60065 or 62368) to be stated at a minimum of 1/8-rated "RMS" power at the lowest rated load, which corresponds to a duty cycle of 12.5% (but the manufacturer may at their option use a higher number). This number originated from the hi-fi world where this was considered the approximate duty cycle of an unclipped full range signal (which IMO is unrealistic for bass guitar).

 

If the normal operation of the amp is intended to be compressed, overdriven or distorted, the stated duty cycle may be increased to reflect the additional power consumed under these conditions at the manufacturer's option. Most test labs will test to verify that the amp can sustain the increased duty cycle without failure or presenting a safety/fire hazard under a test sequence called "abnormal conditions" testing, but not always (depending on the lab and the test routine because other abnormal conditions testing elements may suffice). 

[Baloney Balderdash]

200W is plenty for band rehearsals, even with a hard hitting drummer, and plenty loud for small bar sized venues without PA support as well.

 

Trust me, I have plenty of experience with this.

 

In by far most cases bigger venues will have PA support, so amp power is really a non existing issue here.

 

Gigged some smaller outdoor festivals with just a 50W tube amp, with an audience that counted hundreds of people, at quite a few occasions, so yes, I know about this too (a loud noise rock power trio in most of these cases in fact).

 

Also by far most amps comes with both a Volume/Gain knob and a Master Volume, if it is too loud for home practice simply turn it down, and if it should still be too loud, turn down the volume on your bass.

 

Or use a feather to stroke the strings, which I assume the guys complaining about not being able to be heard or hear them self at band rehearsals with a 200W amp must be using (that or they are going for the much sought after mid scooped, famous "wet fart" tone, which is the prime recipe to being completely and utterly buried in a mix consisting of about equal amounts pure mud and absolute fizz).

 

Edited Thursday at 05:08 by Baloney Balderdash

[shoulderpet]

On 07/02/2026 at 10:41, la bam said:

I get a bit / lot confused sometimes.... 

 

With another load of new gear being released at the moment, I can't help wonder the same thing every year... 

 

There's only really 2 uses for an amp - practicing/home use and playing live / in bands. 

 

So why do nearly all the manufacturers sell ranges that are dead set in the middle? And serve neither use? 

 

Ie the 200w class d type? Or 200w class d combos etc... 

 

That's too loud / needless for home and just not practical for gigging and to be honest not much different in price. 

 

I see loads and loads of stuff I'd like to buy second hand, then see it's the weaker version, drives me mad! 

 

Surely it's the same effort to put in a 500w power module as it is a 200w one? 

 

A bass amp used to be a bass amp... Ie you could gig with it without worry, and a practice amp for home was just that. Now it's a minefield out there... 

It depends on exactly what your gigging circumstances are, I have a Mark bass amp that is 300 watts and the band I am in uses a pa and the bass goes through that as well as through the speaker on the combo amp and I am considering downgrading as this amp is absolute overkill for our gigs, I think the loudest I have had it is 9 o clock on the volume, even if we were not using a pa I think the amp produces more volume than I would ever need for our pub gigs.

Edited Thursday at 13:32 by shoulderpet

[Lozz196]

Sadly my band need those watts. Whatever 500/600 watt amp of the studios that I use, through their 810, its on a minimum of 5, otherwise I can’t be heard. It’s the drummist, yet another caffeine fuelled chimp with hammers. 

[Dad3353]

34 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

Sadly my band need those watts. Whatever 500/600 watt amp of the studios that I use, through their 810, its on a minimum of 5, otherwise I can’t be heard. It’s the drummist, yet another caffeine fuelled chimp with hammers. 

 

Does your band, with this drummer, play pub gigs..? Does that volume level work, in that context..? 

[Lozz196]

5 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

 

Does your band, with this drummer, play pub gigs..? Does that volume level work, in that context..? 

No, we don’t gig, just rehearse. and the rest of us know that we would be far too loud for a pub sized venue - we’d get halfway through a soundcheck and get thrown out, that kind of volume empties places. Plus the kit itself is bigger than most pub stages.

[BassAdder60]

I was at one time thinking I must have a combination of cabs to achieve 4ohms so i can get max watts from amp !

Now I run an 8ohm MarkBass 122 cab with a 500w head and it’s very loud when it needs to be ! 
One cab solution and easy carry in 

 

I never thought to much about cabs but I now see a decent cab is more important than lots of watts 

 

100w Ampeg V4B very loud amp ! 
not got it anymore as too heavy ! 

[Stub Mandrel]

Remembering back to the 80s/90s when I used to have to push everything to get an adequate sound, I enjoy having plenty more power than I need so I never have to worry and know my rig is well away from its limit. 

[agedhorse]

Different players, music styles, gigs and venues all have different needs. What works for you may no work for another player and there is nothing wrong with this. It doesn't make you more right or the other player more wrong.

[MostLow]

I set my Orange AD200B MKIII to about 85% Volume and about 15-20% Gain. It really starts to break up and get farty past this point. Is this normal? I just had it serviced, so maybe it's just not my 'flavour'.

[itu]

@MostLow: usually it is feasible to fill the preamp side, and adjust the volume to the desired loudness. This way the noise level is low and the preamp works in its best performance level. 

[Phil Starr]

On 11/02/2026 at 10:42, godathunder said:

 

Do you think that all manufacturers measure their amps' power output the same way?

Is there an audible difference in maximum output between different different models quoting identical specs?

Only quoting this bit because it raises an interesting question which your post does go on to mention. Everything goes to pot once the marketers get hold of every bit of printed and broadcast material. 

 

It's the governments fault. To a large extent it's the voters fault and to a greater extent it's the non voters fault. Anyone who ever proudly says 'I don't  vote, they are all the same' it's definitely their fault.

 

Companies are over claiming figures massively and across the board, they routinely measure their amps output power then simply multiply the figure by four. Literally just that, times four, no science, no measurement just barefaced lie. To be fair some even admit it. In the small print you'll see "**calculated figure". Frequency responses are now given +/- 10db rather  than the +/-3db used decades ago and sometimes even less honestly. The problem is that once one company does it everyone eventually has to. Who would buy a 500W PA speaker from RCF when they can get a 2000W one from Yamaha. And that's the thing; for years you could buy really cheap 'party speakers' from the likes of Maplin advertising 1,000W PMPO which we all knew weren't serious speakers, but people who wanted to party could buy something good value for money and claim they had a 2,000W system. Then firms like Alto and Samson started to use the same PMPO figures and ate into the market. "I know it's only an Alto but is sounds OK and it's 2,000W so it's got to be as good as a 500W Yamaha" In the end Yamaha and others cracked and started using the 'calculated power' fiction and everybody else had to fall into line or let their sales fall. I notice that even Wharfedale have cracked and FBT are quoting the silly 4x power figures and then giving the maximum output figures of their PA in real money.

 

So why is this the governments fault? Because there are laws in this country, and the rest of Europe to prevent advertising lies, to protect the public but the laws aren't enforced. The penalties for dishonest advertising aren't particularly severe but all of the funding for public protection has been slashed by politicians of all the ruling parties in the name of cutting spending and goverment red tape. The refgulators have almost no power over the sectors they are reglating and everything gets a little more s**t. Literally in the case of the water companies and some of the hospitality venues. Meanwhile with the loss of interest in politics and membership the parties are all now dependent upon 'donations' from rich individuals, lobbyists and the companies they are supposed to be regulating for our benefit. We go on voting for parties that promise tax cuts and cuts to the nanny state so now all the major parties promise to do just that. (whether they do or not you can judge for yourselves, there's not a lot of advertising standards in politics any more,though they aren't all the same in how brazen or even plausible their lies are.

 

We also seem to enjoy being lied to, you can work out an amplifier or a speakers power if you know a bit of simple physics and can be bothered to do the sums. I could name dozens of people on BassChat who do this routinely several of whom have already posted in this thread. The trouble is that people love to say they bought a 2,000W bass amp and that their PA is 10,000W just as much as they like to say they voted for the party that will fix the £16billion worth of potholes, cntinue the triple lock and promise to cut taxes and borrowing at the same time.

[Stub Mandrel]

Ah, those were the days ... my mate's 4kW PA was capable of levelling buildings.

[LawrenceH]

The irony for amplifiers is these numbers matter a lot less now that power is cheap and light. Just makes it even more confusing pairing with appropriate speakers.

 

Having said that, subjectively these micro amps don't quite seem to match up to older class AB amps with nominally similar ratings. Whether that's because their power supplies can't sustain the demand for as long under load, or the older amps have more forgiving distortion characteristics at higher loads, or it's all in my head, I don't know enough to say (it's not all in my head though it's really reeeeeal :p).

 

BUT, with my £150-when-new Bugera Veyron it's all immaterial. Weighs not much, fits comfortably into a laptop bag. Claims 2000 fictional watts, supposedly measures a hair under 800 watts, in reality it doesn't matter if that's not ultimately as loud as 'old watts'. I drive 2x 250w RMS 10" drivers and it's always enough. Played the Fleece in Bristol a few nights ago, it filled the stage easily and it sounds great, and the subs/PA take over for the venue anyway as is required in a place that size whatever you put on stage.

 

 

[tauzero]

7 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

Companies are over claiming figures massively and across the board, they routinely measure their amps output power then simply multiply the figure by four. Literally just that, times four, no science, no measurement just barefaced lie. To be fair some even admit it. In the small print you'll see "**calculated figure". Frequency responses are now given +/- 10db rather  than the +/-3db used decades ago and sometimes even less honestly. The problem is that once one company does it everyone eventually has to. Who would buy a 500W PA speaker from RCF when they can get a 2000W one from Yamaha. And that's the thing; for years you could buy really cheap 'party speakers' from the likes of Maplin advertising 1,000W PMPO which we all knew weren't serious speakers, but people who wanted to party could buy something good value for money and claim they had a 2,000W system. Then firms like Alto and Samson started to use the same PMPO figures and ate into the market. "I know it's only an Alto but is sounds OK and it's 2,000W so it's got to be as good as a 500W Yamaha" In the end Yamaha and others cracked and started using the 'calculated power' fiction and everybody else had to fall into line or let their sales fall. I notice that even Wharfedale have cracked and FBT are quoting the silly 4x power figures and then giving the maximum output figures of their PA in real money.

 

1W RMS = 133W PMPO.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/267370732623 (see the bottom of the box)

 

[agedhorse]

9 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

Only quoting this bit because it raises an interesting question which your post does go on to mention. Everything goes to pot once the marketers get hold of every bit of printed and broadcast material. 

 

It's the governments fault. To a large extent it's the voters fault and to a greater extent it's the non voters fault. Anyone who ever proudly says 'I don't  vote, they are all the same' it's definitely their fault.

 

Companies are over claiming figures massively and across the board, they routinely measure their amps output power then simply multiply the figure by four. Literally just that, times four, no science, no measurement just barefaced lie. To be fair some even admit it. In the small print you'll see "**calculated figure". Frequency responses are now given +/- 10db rather  than the +/-3db used decades ago and sometimes even less honestly. The problem is that once one company does it everyone eventually has to. Who would buy a 500W PA speaker from RCF when they can get a 2000W one from Yamaha. And that's the thing; for years you could buy really cheap 'party speakers' from the likes of Maplin advertising 1,000W PMPO which we all knew weren't serious speakers, but people who wanted to party could buy something good value for money and claim they had a 2,000W system. Then firms like Alto and Samson started to use the same PMPO figures and ate into the market. "I know it's only an Alto but is sounds OK and it's 2,000W so it's got to be as good as a 500W Yamaha" In the end Yamaha and others cracked and started using the 'calculated power' fiction and everybody else had to fall into line or let their sales fall. I notice that even Wharfedale have cracked and FBT are quoting the silly 4x power figures and then giving the maximum output figures of their PA in real money.

 

So why is this the governments fault? Because there are laws in this country, and the rest of Europe to prevent advertising lies, to protect the public but the laws aren't enforced. The penalties for dishonest advertising aren't particularly severe but all of the funding for public protection has been slashed by politicians of all the ruling parties in the name of cutting spending and goverment red tape. The refgulators have almost no power over the sectors they are reglating and everything gets a little more s**t. Literally in the case of the water companies and some of the hospitality venues. Meanwhile with the loss of interest in politics and membership the parties are all now dependent upon 'donations' from rich individuals, lobbyists and the companies they are supposed to be regulating for our benefit. We go on voting for parties that promise tax cuts and cuts to the nanny state so now all the major parties promise to do just that. (whether they do or not you can judge for yourselves, there's not a lot of advertising standards in politics any more,though they aren't all the same in how brazen or even plausible their lies are.

 

We also seem to enjoy being lied to, you can work out an amplifier or a speakers power if you know a bit of simple physics and can be bothered to do the sums. I could name dozens of people on BassChat who do this routinely several of whom have already posted in this thread. The trouble is that people love to say they bought a 2,000W bass amp and that their PA is 10,000W just as much as they like to say they voted for the party that will fix the £16billion worth of potholes, cntinue the triple lock and promise to cut taxes and borrowing at the same time.

It depends on the manufacturer, the brand and the product category. Some are misleading (intentionally or otherwise) but not all. 

[agedhorse]

5 hours ago, LawrenceH said:

The irony for amplifiers is these numbers matter a lot less now that power is cheap and light. Just makes it even more confusing pairing with appropriate speakers.

 

Having said that, subjectively these micro amps don't quite seem to match up to older class AB amps with nominally similar ratings. Whether that's because their power supplies can't sustain the demand for as long under load, or the older amps have more forgiving distortion characteristics at higher loads, or it's all in my head, I don't know enough to say (it's not all in my head though it's really reeeeeal :p).

 

BUT, with my £150-when-new Bugera Veyron it's all immaterial. Weighs not much, fits comfortably into a laptop bag. Claims 2000 fictional watts, supposedly measures a hair under 800 watts, in reality it doesn't matter if that's not ultimately as loud as 'old watts'. I drive 2x 250w RMS 10" drivers and it's always enough. Played the Fleece in Bristol a few nights ago, it filled the stage easily and it sounds great, and the subs/PA take over for the venue anyway as is required in a place that size whatever you put on stage.

 

 

It depends on the manufacturer, the design and intent of the design, and the execution. In many ways, the power supplies used in class D amps are MORE robust not less, but there are many more factors in how an amp performs. 
 

Sone manufacturer’s marketing folks are more creative in their presentation of the specifications, that’s a choice that they have determined their customers are ok with.