De-Fret??

[DTB]

A while back I bought a heavily discounted BBNE2 and traded a multtiscale 6 string Ibanez I wasn’t getting in with. 
now I am all about fretless and have had this irritating idea that won’t leave my brain about having the Yamaha de-fretted. 
Am I crazy?

Would you do it?If so are there any decent luthiers in Suffolk you would trust to do it, or should I just leave it well alone for when I am back in love with fretted again. ????

Every time I pick up the Sire V10 I wish it was the fretless Yamaha and I don’t think Mr East even plays a fretless unless it is an upright. Aaarrrggghhhhh!!!

[miles'tone]

Do it. Onwards!

[Belka]

Do it. Some people might say that a bass that was originally fretted won't make an ideal fretless, but as long as you get a decent tech to do the work it'll be fine. It's really just a matter of removing the frets, filling the gaps with some kind of wood veneer, replacing the nut with a lower one, adjusting the bridge and perhaps putting some kind of finish onto the board.  It'll also be completely reversible if in the future you decide to go back to fretted. 

 

I'm sure someone will mention lines getting in the way/distracting you and fret markers being in the 'wrong' place for a fretless, but with daily practice this will become a non-issue, and in the long run will help with intonation, especially beyond the 12th fret.

 

Just had a look at Yamaha's catalogue and the bass in question already has an ebony fretboard, so you wouldn't need to worry about having that finished, which makes things easier.   

[DTB]

I saw a converted one (not aBBNE2) the other day with block markers which I previously thought made it impossible to do, but obvs isn’t. 
 

I know two luthiers, one now only does his own brand stuff, and the other I not sure if it is something he would take on. I normally do all my own repairs etc but I have never pulled frets out. 

[Gizmo]

Sell it and then buy the fretless version of the bass...

 

 

Ho but Jaco took the frets out........

 

 

Sure DIY if you like (or pay a someone else to DIFY), your looking at firstly getting the frets out without any chipping, then filling and re- radius'ing the board/slots + maybe CA/Epoxy/flatten/polish...and don't forget your side fret markers are now pretty much useless as they are cantered in the fret not over the lines/notes so drill out fill and redrill all those...Or just get the board replaced (much easier)

 

Or just go buy a cheap HB fretless to see if you bond with it...have fun

 

Have fun

[DTB]

I already play fretless. 
 

and they don’t do a fretless version of the BBNE2. 
 

It was my main bass before I started playing fretless and I miss the build quality and the weight, tone and feel. 

[Belka]

13 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

Sell it and then buy the fretless version of the bass...

 

 

Ho but Jaco took the frets out........

 

 

Sure DIY if you like (or pay a someone else to DIFY), your looking at firstly getting the frets out without any chipping, then filling and re- radius'ing the board/slots + maybe CA/Epoxy/flatten/polish...and don't forget your side fret markers are now pretty much useless as they are cantered in the fret not over the lines/notes so drill out fill and redrill all those...Or just get the board replaced (much easier)

 

Or just go buy a cheap HB fretless to see if you bond with it...have fun

 

Have fun

With more thought, I would pretty much agree with a lot of what you say - the BBNE2 is quite a pricey bass, and even if the OP got it at a bargain price, a Harley Benton fretless would probably be a better place to start.

 

I would still disagree about the side fret markers. On a converted lined fretless your existing dot markers show you the note, and the line ahead approximately (for proper intonation finger placement varies depending where on the neck you are, and also for the pedants who are going to bring up equal/true temperance - a moot point anyway unless your guitarist/keys/horn players are doing similar)  where your finger should go.

 

It's no doubt better to have the dot marker over the line, but it's not necessary, and to say the dots are pretty much useless is completely wrong IMO - I adjusted to this almost immediately; good fretting technique on a fretted bass is to put your finger as close to the fretwire as you can rather than on the dot marker anyway. 

[DTB]

The dot markers on my lined fretless are the same, in the middle not on the line. 

[jonnybass]

25 minutes ago, Belka said:

With more thought, I would pretty much agree with a lot of what you say - the BBNE2 is quite a pricey bass, and even if the OP got it at a bargain price, a Harley Benton fretless would probably be a better place to start.

 

I would still disagree about the side fret markers. On a converted lined fretless your existing dot markers show you the note, and the line ahead approximately (for proper intonation finger placement varies depending where on the neck you are, and also for the pedants who are going to bring up equal/true temperance - a moot point anyway unless your guitarist/keys/horn players are doing similar)  where your finger should go.

 

It's no doubt better to have the dot marker over the line, but it's not necessary, and to say the dots are pretty much useless is completely wrong IMO - I adjusted to this almost immediately; good fretting technique on a fretted bass is to put your finger as close to the fretwire as you can rather than on the dot marker anyway. 

I dont think thats right on the dots point.  Dots inbetween fretlines indicate where to put your finger for the string to then hit the fret behind the finger (closest to the bridge) to pitch the note.  With no fret (but a lined fretless board) your finger should be on the fretline closest the bridge end of the fret to accurately pitch the note.

 

As far as the OP goes, its your bass so its really down to you.  Is it one of those passing whims we all get? are you likely to sell the bass at some point?  I have had irreversible mods done to a fairly pricey bass, I dont regret it as I dont beleive I'll ever sell it. If you love everything about it, apart from the fact it has frets, take it to a luthier who is experienced and good at de frets and get it de fretted, or buy a bass that comes close and de fret that.

 

 

Jonny

Edited 7 hours ago by jonnybass

[Belka]

32 minutes ago, jonnybass said:

I dont think thats right on the dots point.  Dots inbetween fretlines indicate where to put your finger for the string to then hit the fret behind the finger (closest to the bridge) to pitch the note. 

It's always good practice to have your fretting fingers as close to the fret as possible without choking the note out. It helps to reach notes without excessive stretching when using the four finger per fret approach. Some say you get a better tone too, but I'm not personally convinced of this.  

[jonnybass]

Not sure on the relevance here, you were talking about pitching a note on a fretless, not a where within a fret to place your finger on a fretted instrument.  I would think where you land in between the frets will make a minimal difference to tone as the anchor point is the fret after your finger (closest to the bridge) to the bridge anchor point.  Pitching a fretless is still the on the line closest to the bridge (on a lined fretless).

 

Jonny

 

[hubrad]

Go for it.. I've done a few for myself. As others have said, go steady when removing the frets - my first attempt had many chips flying!  

I was later shown how to grind some pincers sharp and flat for gently lifting and rocking the frets. Go steady and all ends up well.

Filling in, I've used black or white plasticard, also maple veneer, also just rosewood dust mixed with epoxy. Each gives greater or lesser visibility to the lines. Overfill then smooth back.

Good luck!

[pete.young]

2 hours ago, DTB said:

A while back I bought a heavily discounted BBNE2 and traded a multtiscale 6 string Ibanez I wasn’t getting in with. 
now I am all about fretless and have had this irritating idea that won’t leave my brain about having the Yamaha de-fretted. 
Am I crazy?

Would you do it?If so are there any decent luthiers in Suffolk you would trust to do it, or should I just leave it well alone for when I am back in love with fretted again. ????

Every time I pick up the Sire V10 I wish it was the fretless Yamaha and I don’t think Mr East even plays a fretless unless it is an upright. Aaarrrggghhhhh!!!

 

The defret will destroy the value of the instrument, and for a BBNE2 this is probably somewhere between 2 and 3 grand.

 

Nathan East plays a TRB5 fretless, not sure if it's a defret or a factory custom special. Prices of these are starting to creep up and amounts verging on silly money are being asked for them. If it were me I'd be looking for a  TRB5, BB-N5A or the fretted version BB-N5 to defret. Or maybe even a BB2005.

 

Luthiers in Suffolk? Well you could ask Andrew Guyton but I'd be surprised if he'd be interested. I'd say Colin Fulton, but he's disappeared from view and I don't have an address. It depends whether you want a full-on luthier or a good guitar tech. Steve at Guitar Lodge in Felixstowe has done some good work for me, though nothing involving fretwork or fret removal. He does a lot of fret work and broken headstocks though.  Robbie Gladwell is also highly recommended though I've not used him so cant vouch for him personally.

 

If you're going to attempt it yourself, buy some cheap necks and practice. 

 

 

[chris_b]

I won't say don't do it, but many years ago I de-fretted my bass. . . .  and I regretted it. Taking the frets out (with a kitchen knife and filling the slots with polyfiller) never gave me sound I thought I was going to get. If the bass wasn't worthless when I started, it certainly was when I finished. It went in the bin shortly afterwards.

[itu]

Do not. Do not de-fret it. Do not. 

 

Meet a luthier. Ask him/her to build you a fretless neck to the instrument. This will be a very good and valuable investment to the bass and to yourself. You shouldn't mess with a fine neck. You just need another. 

 

If you do (or do not) like the combination of the neck and the body, you can go back to the luthier and order a suitable body to the extra neck (be it fretted or fretless). 

[ghostwheel]

@DTB, have you tried to ask Yamaha if they could make a fretless replacement neck for this bass? Another option might be to order a fretless neck by some luthier (if I remember correctly, Jon Shuker could make one). In my view, it might be worth a try instead of making changes to your beloved bass that might turn irreversible. 

[police squad]

I did it to a p bass USA reissue in 1990. I pulled the frets with pliers, filled with a tube of plastic wood and it worked perfectly

These days I would do it differently. I would buy a tool specifically for pulling frets and run a soldering iron accros the fret to be pulled a couple of times

[Sean]

39 minutes ago, itu said:

Do not. Do not de-fret it. Do not. 

 

Meet a luthier. Ask him/her to build you a fretless neck to the instrument. This will be a very good and valuable investment to the bass and to yourself. You shouldn't mess with a fine neck. You just need another. 

 

If you do (or do not) like the combination of the neck and the body, you can go back to the luthier and order a suitable body to the extra neck (be it fretted or fretless). 

 

I agree on not de-fretting. 

 

The BBNE2 is a neck-thru design, making a fretless neck for it isn't an option. It's also a high-end and quite sought after bass that could be difficult to resell if de-fretted and you'd have the cost of re-fretting if you wanted to reverse the job.

 

If money is no object and none of this matters, go ahead and defret. It's a different decision for different people.  

[pete.young]

1 hour ago, itu said:

Do not. Do not de-fret it. Do not. 

 

Meet a luthier. Ask him/her to build you a fretless neck to the instrument. This will be a very good and valuable investment to the bass and to yourself. You shouldn't mess with a fine neck. You just need another. 

 

If you do (or do not) like the combination of the neck and the body, you can go back to the luthier and order a suitable body to the extra neck (be it fretted or fretless). 

 

BBNE2 is a neck-through.

[jonno1981]

How much would it devalue the bass? I’d have a really good think about that. It’s a high end bass and could cost you a substantial amount. 
This may not be a concern now, but in 5 years time it might be the difference between an easy sale and putting buyers off completely. 

[DTB]

Yeah, I am firmly in the don’t be stupid camp this afternoon, defretting would take a lot of value off it and they are getting very expensive now, especially from Yamaha London, it’s just a shame I don’t play it since getting my fretless and I used to play it every day, it was my main bass. 
 

Think I will put some Cobalt Flats on it, I have those on my fretless and half the problem is I dont like the feel of roundwounds now, the cobalts have a very bright tone just like rounds but for me anyway are much nicer to play. 
 

If I change my mind and get it done I will post it here. 
 

thanks everyone 

[itu]

2 hours ago, Sean said:

I agree on not de-fretting. 

 

The BBNE2 is a neck-thru design... 

 

2 hours ago, pete.young said:

BBNE2 is a neck-through.

Thank you, I should've checked this. Yahaya isn't my favourite brand. A meeting with a luthier might still be an option. A copy of the original would be a nice addition. As my old bass teacher once said, it would be easiest to change from fretted to fretless, if both instruments were the same (meaning muscle memory etc.). 

[Sean]

13 minutes ago, itu said:

 

Yamaha isn't my favourite brand. 

I've got 4 Japanese Yamaha 😉 basses, I've always been a fan and have always fancied an NE2, they are so classy and beautifully made. I went to a Nathan East clinic years ago and fell in love with the BBNE2 then. Flagship Yamaha bass. 

[Grahambythesea]

Really? It’s a bass with nearly a £4 grand price tag, it could be a very expensive mistake. There must be something out there that’s fretless and better than the Sire you’ve got, maybe a TRB would be similar to the NE2 and they are available fretless. When I saw Nathan live he used a 6 string TRB for virtually the whole concert. The NE2 sat there as his spare.

[42Hz]

I wouldn't.