The more I practise, the more critical I become and I'm starting to lose confidence

[Steve Browning]

I play with an incredible drummer (and I mean incredible). He had a mini stroke a number of years ago and is aware of certain things he can't do now. He is comfortable with that, and plays what he can (which fits perfectly, it's just not what he would have done). It strikes me you're in a similar position but haven't reconciled what you want to do with what you can.

 

I'm rubbish at practising and hardly ever do it with any seriousness. I'll noodle often and I do play scales - usually G major or minor (melodic and harmonic) just to keep my fingers moving (two octaves). I actually find it useful.

 

In essence, what I am saying is just play and enjoy what you do. A lack of confidence is a tricky one because that's internal and, I suspect, little of what we say here will cause the kind of eureka moment that you need (or you think you do). Playing Rhythm Stick at 90% is pretty bl00dy impressive in my book.

 

In general, learning is a series of leaps forward, followed by a plateau (in my experience). Play what's comfortable for you and that will be perfect, I promise you.

 

 

Edited 18 hours ago by Steve Browning

[kwmlondon]

20 minutes ago, knirirr said:

 

 

I can't recall where I saw it, but I read something about how your ability to play and your taste/ability to analyze your playing improve at different rates. So, if playing skills exceed analysis skills you'll think you sound great, but if it's the other way around then anything you do will sound bad to you (I note that I'm often not happy with my own playing and wonder if this might be why).
Another thing, which was told to me by a jazz tutor, was that during or just after playing a solo the soloist may well think it was rubbish as they will compare it with the perfect solo they were imagining in their head and couldn't quite get out of the bass. But, if they listen back to the solo a few weeks later when that perfect solo has been forgotten then it will sound much better. 
Could either of those things be involved here?

 

I don't like playing solos in public. I can't think of anyting I could ever play that anyone in an audience would ever want to listen to, but then I can only name a handful of bass solos I've enjoyed myself and those are such a high bar I think it'd be daft to try and reach it. Now... a tasty fill or a bass break with a bit of almost-indulgent close-to-over-playing for a couple of bars, that I am down with! Hit the audience with it so quickly that by the time they've realised what's happening, it's over...

 

No, what it it's mostly about is that the more I practise something the more I'm familar with it and it gets to the point where I can just about play the notes but they're not fretted todally clean or evenly OR I play it worse than I did yesterday. That's heart-breaking, but mostly down to being tired or distracted but still. Recently it's just driven me a bit mad.

[Steve Browning]

7 minutes ago, kwmlondon said:

I don't like playing solos in public. I can't think of anyting I could ever play that anyone in an audience would ever want to listen to, but then I can only name a handful of bass solos I've enjoyed myself and those are such a high bar I think it'd be daft to try and reach it. Now... a tasty fill or a bass break with a bit of almost-indulgent close-to-over-playing for a couple of bars, that I am down with! Hit the audience with it so quickly that by the time they've realised what's happening, it's over...

 

No, what it it's mostly about is that the more I practise something the more I'm familar with it and it gets to the point where I can just about play the notes but they're not fretted todally clean or evenly OR I play it worse than I did yesterday. That's heart-breaking, but mostly down to being tired or distracted but still. Recently it's just driven me a bit mad.

 

Rest assured, there's never been a good bass solo played - ever (IMHO). Maybe My Generation, but that's it. I make it known I don't do them. The one time a guy introduced me to play a solo (despite the warning) I simply took off my bass and put it on the stand.

Edited 18 hours ago by Steve Browning

[kwmlondon]

6 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

I play with an incredible drummer (and I mean incredible). He had a mini stroke a number of years ago and is aware of certain things he can't do now. He is comfortable with that, and plays what he can (which fits perfectly, it's just not what he would have done). It strikes me you're in a similar position but haven't reconciled what you want to do with what you can.

 

I'm rubbish at practising and hardly ever do it with any seriousness. I'll noodle often and I do play scales - usually G major or minor (melodic and harmonic) just to keep my fingers moving (two octaves). I actually find it useful.

 

In essence, what I am saying is just play and enjoy what you do. A lack of confidence is a tricky one because that's internal and, I suspect, little of what we say here will cause the kind of eureka moment that you need (or you think you do). Playing Rhythm Stick at 90% is pretty bl00dy impressive in my book.

 

In general, learning is a series of leaps forward, followed by a plateau (in my experience). Play what's comfortable for you and that will be perfect, I promise you.

 

 

this is very constructive. I feel ungrateful dissing my bandmates musicanship, it seems disloyal and I could not do it to their faces and I am very grateful to them for their time and generosity and freindship. I'm not the best bassist around but I am trying to become a better musician and bass player where they are trying to play songs better and I suspect we're not after the same thing. The confidence thing is a weird one because it's not stopping me from doing anything, it's just tied up with the enjoyment. I think I'm feeling less confident BECAUSE I'm not enjoying myslef.

[kwmlondon]

Just now, Steve Browning said:

 

Rest assured, there's never been a good bass solo played - ever (IMHO). Maybe My Geneeration, but that's it. I make it known I don't do them. The one time a guy introduced me to play a solo (despite the warning) I simply took off my bass and put it on the stand.

There is one. Willy Weeks playing with Donny Hathaway - The Voices Inside. The 1972 Recording. Every bass solo since has been a pale imitation IMO, like bad photocopies. 

[knirirr]

7 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

 

Rest assured, there's never been a good bass solo played - ever (IMHO)

 

Here are two awesome ones just off the top of my head:

https://youtu.be/0EOjl8ArXlI?si=l25xTVZ3lCF32k_D&t=116
https://youtu.be/_VEWZoA7Erk?si=wtzeQfYsLlHQGwwC&t=233

Anyway, apologies for bringing up the divisive topic of bass solos; unfortunately they are (1) often demanded by other jazz musicians at jams (particularly if one says "no bass solo on this one, please") and (2) are a great opportunity to feel bad about one's playing. 
 

19 minutes ago, kwmlondon said:

 

 

No, what it it's mostly about is that the more I practise something the more I'm familar with it and it gets to the point where I can just about play the notes but they're not fretted todally clean or evenly OR I play it worse than I did yesterday. That's heart-breaking, but mostly down to being tired or distracted but still. Recently it's just driven me a bit mad.

 

That does indeed sound like something different, then. Sorry to hear that, and I hope you manage to find the solution. 

[Lozz196]

I agree with @Steve Browning, Rhythm Stick at 90% is a definite achievement, as well as getting Hysteria spot on too. 

[ricksterphil]

58 minutes ago, kwmlondon said:

There is one. Willy Weeks playing with Donny Hathaway - The Voices Inside. The 1972 Recording. Every bass solo since has been a pale imitation IMO, like bad photocopies. 

Oh man, just listened to this and I think I've found my new favourite bass player. Groove, rhythm, excellent pace, with some flashy but classy chord work (but not overdone).

 

That solo, my fellow low-enders, is the bow-wow's whatsit's

[chris_b]

6 minutes ago, ricksterphil said:

Oh man, just listened to this and I think I've found my new favourite bass player. Groove, rhythm, excellent pace, with some flashy but classy chord work (but not overdone).

 

That solo, my fellow low-enders, is the bow-wow's whatsit's

 

That was in the early 70's. Willie Weeks is still pretty S-hot today.

[kwmlondon]

7 minutes ago, ricksterphil said:

Oh man, just listened to this and I think I've found my new favourite bass player. Groove, rhythm, excellent pace, with some flashy but classy chord work (but not overdone).

 

That solo, my fellow low-enders, is the bow-wow's whatsit's

I have been listening to that album since I was born. It was one of the records my mum and dad had and it's been burned into my brain. I'm really, really glad you like it. 

[Sté]

One other way you can try is the Molly Gerbrian book named "learn faster perform better". She's pro musician and neuroscience PhD. Her approach about learning the better way to optimize efficiency of brain recording is really interesting and helpfull. 

[TimR]

You used to play with a pick.

 

Had 15 years off.

 

Are picking up the bass again but playing finger style now.

 

 It's going to sound different. That in itself will take some getting used to. But also adopting to a different way of playing is going to be very hard. Particularly with fingerstyle as the notes won't have the same attack and you need to approach the note timing completely differently.

[Terry M.]

8 hours ago, kwmlondon said:

I am much better than I was a couple of years ago but I don't FEEL like I'm enjoying it.

This is so key to the entire experience. What could be making you feel this way? Boredom perhaps? Did you get rid of your 4 string Ray in the end as a side question and if so are you missing it?

Edited 14 hours ago by Terry M.

[Dan Dare]

Don't know if this will be helpful, but we all have to accept that we have limits.

 

They may be physical - you say you are coping with an old injury, which is bound to slow you down/limit you.

 

They may be due to time - there are only so many hours in a day and if you have a lot of other demands on your time, you con only spend a limited time on practice/playing. That will slow your progress, especially if you can't spare the time every day. 10 minutes a day is better than an hour every 3 or 4 days.

 

They may also be due to ability, potential and realised. We are not all born equal and some have the potential to be better at things than others. I had to accept that a long time ago and face the fact that I was never going to be as good as I would have liked to be. It's often said "You can do anything you wish if you try hard enough", etc. Sounds great, but it's a myth. A one legged man or woman is never going to win Wimbledon, no matter how much effort they put in or how much they want it.

 

Counting one's blessings is important. If you are much better than you were a couple of years ago, be grateful for that and keep working at it..

[tom.android]

Practicing and playing are different things. 

 

If you can hear what’s not right with your playing, you can fix it. 

 

I’m sure you’re doing great but you might do better with some assistance from a properly qualified and experienced tutor.
 

Where are you based? I bet there’s someone within half an hour’s drive who can sort you out in 6 months. Don’t buy any gear this year, get lessons instead. 

[wintoid]

40 years ago, younger and more arrogant than I am now (or so I like to think), I had this amazing violin teacher.  Some teachers you remember for the rest of your life, and she was one of those.

 

If I turned up feeling good about my week's practice, confident I was playing it well, she'd often be full of criticism.  If I turned up full of self-criticism, she would often remark how much progress I had made.  I don't think she was doing it to keep my confidence in check.  We discussed it at the time, and both concluded that my critical ear and actual progress were always out of sync.

 

Over the year, this has helped me masses.  When I'm frustrated, and feeling like I'm making no progress, I remember this amazing lady, and I remember that it probably means the opposite of what it feels!

 

Dunno if that can help you at all, but I hope it does.

[jonnybass]

I break my practice sessions into two types. Technical and playing.

before I do either I warm up then I start on technical practice.

technical practice I limit to 10 minutes. I pick one exercise, put the metronome on and play it. Once I play the exercise perfectly 3 times I increase the metronome tempo. I got it from a janek gwizdala series, and for me it’s so useful to improve my technique.

 

playing practice is exactly as it sounds, playing songs, parts, noodling, jamming but just playing. There’s no time limit on this bit and it’s about fun and playing. 
 

this is how i (slowly) get better.

 

jonny

[Terry M.]

Does 5 minutes of bass playing for you feel like an hour or does an hour feel like 5 minutes? If it's the former you may need to step away for a bit to regroup.

[ezbass]

Perhaps it’s time to step away from the technical side and concentrate on performance. By this I mean try to stop analysing what you’re doing when playing in your band and feel the groove of the song more and what the other band members are doing. I had an example of this in my own playing, recently. I was playing along to a song I know well with one of my fretless basses and I played it well enough, but it lacked something, I was going through a series of mechanical motions that, whilst they did the job, didn’t seem right. I then played the same song on my EUB. My upright skills, by comparison to my EB skills, are really not great. I don’t have the dexterity or the stamina that I have on EB and have to pare back my performance. Anyway, I played the song the best I could with my upright abilities. What happened was that, although I was delivering a less technical performance, I was really enjoying it, I was actually physically dancing with the EUB and just enjoying the groove. Out of the 2 performances, I know which one I preferred and which one an audience (and band members) would appreciate more.