Cultural appropriation and covers

[DF Shortscale]

Got a gig coming up and I’ve been asked to play a cover of Zombie by Fela Kuti which someone threw into a vaguely afrobeat-inspired playlist, and given the historical context of the song, and the fact that this band is a bunch of white guys with zero genuine connection to African culture, I feel like it’s not a good idea. I don’t think whoever came up with the playlist knows the context of the song, they just thought it would be a nice tune to jam on. I’m gonna say no to the gig (and the whole thing reminds me of that Alan Partridge scene where he talks about ‘Sunday Bloody Sunday’ and washing his car). But I’m curious if anyone else has come up against stuff like this - cultural appropriation and being uncomfortable playing covers of tunes that have historical / political significance. Doesn’t sit right with me at all. I feel similar about some other tunes too, What’s Going On by Marvin Gaye etc. Am I over thinking this? Where do you draw the line with stuff like this?

[Dad3353]

There are so many compositions that have real meaning ('If I Had A Hammer', 'Blowing In The Wind', 'Sunday, Bloody Sunday' and hundreds more...). Personally, I'd much rather play stuff with real meaning than innocuous, bland, 'filler' stuff, whatever culture it's originally from. To me, human is human; the rest is simply coincidence of birth time and place. I see no problem here. Peace. 

[Bolo]

You'll have to ask someone who is culturally adjacent to the song.

The majority here are grey haired white men.

[Gank Bass]

Music is music, as long as you don't drop words without their respective pass 

[tegs07]

Personally I feel culture is something to be shared and celebrated by everyone. I think if you are celebrating and sharing culture it’s not appropriating it but absorbing it, being influenced by it and changing your mindset and behaviour because of it. It’s a positive not a negative thing.

 

Appealing to soldiers not to blindly follow orders, which I think this song is about, is as relevant to any culture or race and no more so than in the current world situation.

 

 

 

[DF Shortscale]

11 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

Personally I feel culture is something to be shared and celebrated by everyone. I think if you are celebrating and sharing culture it’s not appropriating it but absorbing it, being influenced by it and changing your mindset and behaviour because of it. It’s a positive not a negative thing.

 

Appealing to soldiers not to blindly follow orders, which I think this song is about, is as relevant to any culture or race and no more so than in the current world situation.

 

 

 

 

The issue is more about playing it as a tune to dance to without being aware of the context. And potentially to an audience that is more aware of the context than members of the band are. That’s the part that gives me Partridge vibes. 

[tegs07]

4 minutes ago, DF Shortscale said:

 

The issue is more about playing it as a tune to dance to without being aware of the context. And potentially to an audience that is more aware of the context than members of the band are. That’s the part that gives me Partridge vibes. 

It’s a pretty upbeat song unless It’s another one I am unaware of. If Fela Kuti wanted folk to sit around and mope it would have been a different tune altogether.

 

I also doubt he released it hoping it would only be appreciated and played by and to a very limited audience who could fully appreciate and embrace its cultural context. Its a tune and a damned good one.

Edited 2 hours ago by tegs07

[Cato]

You can over think these things.

 

Some of the best songs tell a story, you don't have to have a connection or even empathy for that story in order to retell it. Indeed sharing stories is one of the ways that people learn about each other.

 

Having said that I'd feel pretty silly if I had to sing Redemption Song in front of an audience, so there's definitely a 'Partridge' line somewhere, but it's probably very much an individual decision rather than a blanket rule you can apply to all situations 

[Steve Browning]

An interesting debate. Most modern music is ultimately derived from the Blues, a genre born out of slavery and the field hollers that regimented their work. 

[Burns-bass]

If you’re worried have the conversation with the band.

 

In my bluegrass band one of the players had a problem with some of the lyrics. She raised it, explained why and we changed them.

 

No stress.

[tegs07]

20 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

An interesting debate. Most modern music is ultimately derived from the Blues, a genre born out of slavery and the field hollers that regimented their work. 

And then mixed with country and folk music. Bloody cultural appropriation.

 

Edit: I would also trace the blues back further to Mali and the roots even further back. People have travelled and traded, migrated and integrated for milenia. There are so many cross overs and parallels in religion, folk stories, music etc. Culture is not a static or exclusive concept IMO.

 

Edited 2 hours ago by tegs07

[skilamalink]

To thine own self be true. I think your concerns are spot on. If you don't feel comfortable playing it then don't. There are certain songs that you just can't play if you do not have a link to it either culturally or through family history. If the band must play a Fela Kuti song there are plenty others to choose from.

 

As Pulp sang, "Everyone hates a tourist".

[tegs07]

Oppressive governments using coercion and violence against their own people. Working class and oppressed people being used by the military to further their own agenda. Feels like fairly universal concerns to me.

 

I think this song is as relevant to the victims of ICE, the residents of Gaza, the people of Kiev, the immigrants detained in hotels facing a howling mob as it is to the people of Nigeria in the 1970s. To me it’s a universal message that echoes our common humanity and sense of injustice.

Edited 2 hours ago by tegs07

[skilamalink]

2 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

An interesting debate. Most modern music is ultimately derived from the Blues, a genre born out of slavery and the field hollers that regimented their work. 

I agree however there is a difference between this white middle aged British man playing a Blues about going out and drinking too much as opposed to a Blues about being a slave or a descendant of a slave living in a violent racist time. I think sometimes one cannot play a song if one does not have the lived experience to do so.

[DF Shortscale]

14 minutes ago, skilamalink said:

I agree however there is a difference between this white middle aged British man playing a Blues about going out and drinking too much as opposed to a Blues about being a slave or a descendant of a slave living in a violent racist time. I think sometimes one cannot play a song if one does not have the lived experience to do so.

 

Yep, this 100% nails why I have some anxiety about it. Context matters (to me anyway).

 

I think the lines and boundaries around this can be blurry, and I'm genuinely curious what people see as a line they won't cross. Is it ok to play a cover of Sunday Bloody Sunday? Is it ok to do it if you're from Surrey and have never been to Ireland? What if you're playing it to an Irish audience in an Irish pub? What about a Bob Marley cover? How about if it's to a black audience? Should a 52 year old white guy ever do a rap cover of Fight the Power by Public Enemy - at a street party in Brixton?

[tegs07]

28 minutes ago, DF Shortscale said:

 

Yep, this 100% nails why I have some anxiety about it. Context matters (to me anyway).

 

I think the lines and boundaries around this can be blurry, and I'm genuinely curious what people see as a line they won't cross. Is it ok to play a cover of Sunday Bloody Sunday? Is it ok to do it if you're from Surrey and have never been to Ireland? What if you're playing it to an Irish audience in an Irish pub? What about a Bob Marley cover? How about if it's to a black audience? Should a 52 year old white guy ever do a rap cover of Fight the Power by Public Enemy - at a street party in Brixton?

All I would say is it’s up to you. Personally I am glad that the ancient Greeks didn’t pass upon the rich culture of ancient Byzantium and later Greek scholars took the rich cultural and intellectual heritage to Italy and the renaissance men absorbed and learned from this and passed the knowledge and culture on to … etc etc

 

I do think culture is an incredibly valuable thing and should be shared. If a 52 year old white man can get across the message and emotion of Public Enemy then I see no reason why not. Perhaps Terry Hall should have just done the culturally appropriate thing and become a plumber?

 

Edit: When I spent time in India I met a Harley Davidson biker ‘gang ‘ (mainly wealthy businessmen) dressed according and a line dancing club. All wore full regalia. Were they taking the piss or just people with a shared interest and passion spending time together and enjoying themselves?

Edited 1 hour ago by tegs07

[Gank Bass]

7 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

All I would say is it’s up to you. Personally I am glad that the ancient Greeks didn’t pass upon the rich culture of ancient Byzantium and later Greek scholars took the rich cultural and intellectual heritage to Italy and the renaissance men absorbed and learned from this and passed the knowledge and culture on to … etc etc

 

Neolithics were total hacks

[fretmeister]

For me intent is everything.

 

To take the piss in some way - bad.

To honour the song / subject - good.

 

A few words spoken before playing it will clarify intent for the audience.

 

"We have been asked to play this song. It is one of the greatest protest songs ever written about a subject that doesn't get enough attention and we just hope we do it justice"

 

Something like that.

[Burns-bass]

4 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

For me intent is everything.

 

To take the piss in some way - bad.

To honour the song / subject - good.

 

A few words spoken before playing it will clarify intent for the audience.

 

"We have been asked to play this song. It is one of the greatest protest songs ever written about a subject that doesn't get enough attention and we just hope we do it justice"

 

Something like that.

This.

 

Shows respect and an understanding of the context. 

[JapanAxe]

‘Cultural appropriation is the adoption of an element or elements of culture or identity by members of another culture or identity in a manner perceived as inappropriate or unacknowledged.’ - Wikipedia (my emphasis)

 

I think that’s succinctly put, and I’d commend it to anyone who has concerns about performing a particular song.

 

I’m more uncomfortable when one of the bands I dep in plays ‘Coward of the County’ by Kenny Rogers. The central events in the narrative are a gang rape, and the visiting of violent retribution upon the perpetrators. The song does not sit well with me as light entertainment!

[Steve Browning]

At (possibly) the other end of the scale, I played at Sandhurst one time. The band (which boasted 4 female singers - two lead and two backing) did an astoundingly good version of Runaway by The Corrs. The girls voices blended beautifully, and it was almost magical to hear them. Some of the audience were up in arms about us performing a song by an Irish band. One guy had to be restrained from approaching the stage.

[fretmeister]

4 minutes ago, JapanAxe said:

‘Cultural appropriation is the adoption of an element or elements of culture or identity by members of another culture or identity in a manner perceived as inappropriate or unacknowledged.’ - Wikipedia (my emphasis)

 

I think that’s succinctly put, and I’d commend it to anyone who has concerns about performing a particular song.

 

I’m more uncomfortable when one of the bands I dep in plays ‘Coward of the County’ by Kenny Rogers. The central events in the narrative are a gang rape, and the visiting of violent retribution upon the perpetrators. The song does not sit well with me as light entertainment!

 

It's perception that's the problem. Doesn't matter if the band are being respectful, but if 300 in the audience decide the band isn't then there's going to be trouble.

That's why I favour an introduction to remove any wrong ideas from the crowd.

 

I don't think I've ever heard that Rogers tune. I wouldn't pick that for a pub gig!

[JapanAxe]

6 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

 

It's perception that's the problem. Doesn't matter if the band are being respectful, but if 300 in the audience decide the band isn't then there's going to be trouble.

That's why I favour an introduction to remove any wrong ideas from the crowd.

 

I don't think I've ever heard that Rogers tune. I wouldn't pick that for a pub gig!

The band plays rock’n’roll and a bit of country.

 

’Coward of the County’ was a massive crossover hit in 1979.

[tegs07]

19 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

At (possibly) the other end of the scale, I played at Sandhurst one time. The band (which boasted 4 female singers - two lead and two backing) did an astoundingly good version of Runaway by The Corrs. The girls voices blended beautifully, and it was almost magical to hear them. Some of the audience were up in arms about us performing a song by an Irish band. One guy had to be restrained from approaching the stage.

I honestly find these type of people to be idiots that would only be getting annoyed by something else when they were drunk. The Corrs are hardly a traditional band playing rebel songs but mixing folk with pop. I guess Phil Lynott should never have picked up an electric guitar either and introduced that American rock sound and diluted the purity of the gaelic music.

[chris_b]

Oh dear. I suppose because I'm white British I should only be playing for Morris dancers!