Soundchecks - are they professional?

[SimonK]

1 hour ago, wateroftyne said:

...is their hearing shot, by any chance?

 

Slightly unrelated, but during a soundcheck the other week two of our band members were complaining about a high pitched ringing coming through the PA/monitors. The rest of us thought everything was fine so we weren't particularly motivated to find the supposed problem, but after a bit of confusion/accusations of having divas in the band we then realised the two complaining were both late teens/early twenties while the rest of us were 45+, and possibly some of our hearing wasn't what it once was!

 

Mind you it is quite hard to fix a problem that you can't actually hear - we just went through some of the higher frequencies until the youngsters stopped complaining!

[chris_b]

I play with a couple of bands whose guitarists are stone deaf. They can still play but it depends on the day whether they can play with other players.

[TimR]

14 hours ago, ASW said:

In my view the volume is set by the acoustic drum kit and the other instruments and vocals need to balance with that. How does the vocalist line check to "get the right volume" if they are unaware of how loud the drums sound in the venue?

 

Not in a pub. Trying to get everything as loud as a drummer who is trying to fill the pub will always lead to feedback and the rest of the band not being able to balance their sound and/or hear each other. 

 

Get the vocal mic level right first. That's just a case of ringing it out and finding the feedback point. 

[tauzero]

On 04/05/2025 at 09:57, Franticsmurf said:

If they come to see you regularly and know your sound, they would be a good choice to provide a check that nothing was badly out of balance. Not a replacement for a decent soundcheck but preferable to only finding out at the end that something was wrong. And all for the price of a couple of pints.

 

Mrs Zero and Mrs Drummer are glad to provide that service. Sadly, it mainly consists of saying that the bass is too loud. Still not sure if that comes under the definition of "unreasonable behaviour".

[Stub Mandrel]

9 minutes ago, tauzero said:

 

Mrs Zero and Mrs Drummer are glad to provide that service. Sadly, it mainly consists of saying that the bass is too loud. Still not sure if that comes under the definition of "unreasonable behaviour".

 

Saw a band on Saturday.  Bass was almost inaudible much of the time.

[Franticsmurf]

48 minutes ago, tauzero said:

Mrs Zero and Mrs Drummer are glad to provide that service. Sadly, it mainly consists of saying that the bass is too loud. Still not sure if that comes under the definition of "unreasonable behaviour".

No pints for the wrong answers. 😂

[Dan Earp]

In my band the singer gets the balance of drums/guitars/Bass/keys if I’m playing them for some numbers right, then he comes back into band to sing and then one of the guitarists will check singer against rest of band. Last gig I did that even though I was bass. 
it works and  recordings posted on facebook or sent by members of the audience show it’s not far out. 

[Bluewine]

On 05/05/2025 at 08:38, Stub Mandrel said:

 

Saw a band on Saturday.  Bass was almost inaudible much of the time.

 

I get the feeling I'm way down low in the house mix. To me that means our sound engineer doesn't think bass should be heard. I'm not going to argue with him about it. I get paid either way.

 

Daryl

Edited Tuesday at 17:49 by Bluewine

[asingardenof]

Option 2 for sure. My amp hardly ever needs updating significantly but our guitarist needs to adjust for each venue, sometimes several times during the set but at least the base volume is about right. 

[12stringbassist]

I'd normally say option 2 (the full soundcheck) is the way forward.
However, with my lot, we found that we just set our levels like we do normally and just tweak vocal levels slightly to get it right.
This normally works fine until Charlie Rock Star decides to turn his guitar up to 12.
... then he would come out with 'I can't hear myself sing.'
I wonder why.

[BTops]

Agree option 2

[itsmedunc]

I’d certainly opt for choice 2.

One band I play in have the oddest way of sound checking I’ve ever come across. Everything goes through the PA regardless the size of the venue. Firstly, the drummer stands out front and gets the levels of the guitars right and then the vocals. Then he gets on his kit and the singer/guitarist goes out front and does the level of guitar/vox with the kit. This is all done using the volume sliders not by adjusting any of the gains at all? Gain does not seem to be important, as it’s messing about? Then, everything starts feeding back and they won’t listen to anything I have to say about everything being all ass about tit. Then they start using the volume controls on the active cabs to control the feedback by turning everything down 😂

Apparently it has to be done that way as we have no time to mess about as it’s unprofessional ? This is virtually every gig we do when we have to use our own PA. As we all use in ears ,I would have thought that feedback wouldn’t be an issue. Maybe that being really loud onstage is though 🤣

 

[Stub Mandrel]

18 minutes ago, itsmedunc said:

I’d certainly opt for choice 2.

One band I play in have the oddest way of sound checking I’ve ever come across. Everything goes through the PA regardless the size of the venue. Firstly, the drummer stands out front and gets the levels of the guitars right and then the vocals. Then he gets on his kit and the singer/guitarist goes out front and does the level of guitar/vox with the kit. This is all done using the volume sliders not by adjusting any of the gains at all? Gain does not seem to be important, as it’s messing about? Then, everything starts feeding back and they won’t listen to anything I have to say about everything being all ass about tit. Then they start using the volume controls on the active cabs to control the feedback by turning everything down 😂

Apparently it has to be done that way as we have no time to mess about as it’s unprofessional ? This is virtually every gig we do when we have to use our own PA. As we all use in ears ,I would have thought that feedback wouldn’t be an issue. Maybe that being really loud onstage is though 🤣

 

 

Presumably it's too late to tell them to RTFM?

[itsmedunc]

Far too late 😂 They use an XR18. I’ve been using one for 10 years and when I mentioned we should be using the gains, the reaction was that we should get an engineer in to set it all up. Now I’m very capable of doing that but I think they believe it only needs doing once and then it can be left like that forever. Maybe they’ve misunderstood using ‘scenes’? I’ve even took mine into rehearsals and set it all up, sorted all the in ears etc but they won’t use that desk because they know their desk gets a good sound? It’s a very odd situation. Voodoo almost 😂

[NancyJohnson]

Done gigs where I've the basics (line check/30 seconds of something including a chorus) and the fuller thing (a couple of songs in full).  In the main we've always used house engineers and generally they're on a needs must basis.

 

In all cases, small room/big room, it's generally to an empty room, or at the very least the other bands/hangers on.  Obviously the room dynamics will change once there's some people in, but by and large a decent sound guy will be able to sort that out on the fly.

 

 

[Dad3353]

21 minutes ago, itsmedunc said:

Far too late 😂 They use an XR18. I’ve been using one for 10 years and when I mentioned we should be using the gains, the reaction was that we should get an engineer in to set it all up. Now I’m very capable of doing that but I think they believe it only needs doing once and then it can be left like that forever. Maybe they’ve misunderstood using ‘scenes’? I’ve even took mine into rehearsals and set it all up, sorted all the in ears etc but they won’t use that desk because they know their desk gets a good sound? It’s a very odd situation. Voodoo almost 😂

 

I'm used to the traditional analogue desks, so an XR18 may do things differently, but, for me, once the gain has been set for any particular input (usually a mic...), it won't need touching, as long as the same input is used each time. I don't see how you're getting feedback if everyone is using IEM; if it's from the FOH, can the XR18 output not be reduced, instead of touching the active cabs..? There's something rotten in the state of Denmark not quite right, somewhere. 

If the levels for the vocals have been set first, with the guitars, and there's no feedback, it would appear to be the addition of the drums that set it off. If that's the case, can't the drums then be backed off a little..? Are the drums leaking into the vocal mics, fully exposed if there's no singer in front of 'em..? Which individual mic(s...) are feeding back..? They are what needs addressing, not the FOH cabs. Do any of the group know what 'ringing out' is, and how to do it..? Inviting a decent sound person along for a gig or two to sort it all out would be beneficial, I'd suggest, and/or a course in PA set-up. 

Edited 5 hours ago by Dad3353

[itsmedunc]

24 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

 

I'm used to the traditional analogue desks, so an XR18 may do things differently, but, for me, once the gain has been set for any particular input (usually a mic...), it won't need touching, as long as the same input is used each time. I don't see how you're getting feedback if everyone is using IEM; if it's from the FOH, can the XR18 output not be reduced, instead of touching the active cabs..? There's something rotten in the state of Denmark not quite right, somewhere. 

If the levels for the vocals have been set first, with the guitars, and there's no feedback, it would appear to be the addition of the drums that set it off. If that's the case, can't the drums then be backed off a little..? Are the drums leaking into the vocal mics, fully exposed if there's no singer in front of 'em..? Which individual mic(s...) are feeding back..? They are what needs addressing, not the FOH cabs. Do any of the group know what 'ringing out' is, and how to do it..? Inviting a decent sound person along for a gig or two to sort it all out would be beneficial, I'd suggest, and/or a course in PA set-up. 

The trouble is they know nothing about PA’s but insist in being in charge of the sound. If the level of the guitars remained a constant then the gain could but each gig the guitar levels are up and down, something I don’t think there’s any need for with in ears. They even turn their amps up sometimes if they need some more guitar in their monitor 😂

There should be no feedback but the singer/guitarist has his guitar way too loud onstage and won’t turn down (or does the pretend to turn the dial). It makes no difference to him as he’s playing rhythm and is on IEM’s anyway. Take just that into account and everything becomes too loud onstage, hence the feedback. Too loud on stage and the PA isn’t doing enough work I think. 

 

 

 

 

 

[TimR]

Point the amp at his ears instead of his knees. And if he is using a vocal mic, the placement is key. 

Edited 4 hours ago by TimR

[Dad3353]

34 minutes ago, itsmedunc said:

The trouble is they know nothing about PA’s but insist in being in charge of the sound. If the level of the guitars remained a constant then the gain could but each gig the guitar levels are up and down, something I don’t think there’s any need for with in ears. They even turn their amps up sometimes if they need some more guitar in their monitor 😂

There should be no feedback but the singer/guitarist has his guitar way too loud onstage and won’t turn down (or does the pretend to turn the dial). It makes no difference to him as he’s playing rhythm and is on IEM’s anyway. Take just that into account and everything becomes too loud onstage, hence the feedback. Too loud on stage and the PA isn’t doing enough work I think. 

 

Best, then, to quit and join a decent band. They won't be getting return gigs anyway, if that's how they go about things. Some folk never learn, as they think they already know it all. 

[itsmedunc]

5 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

 

Best, then, to quit and join a decent band. They won't be getting return gigs anyway, if that's how they go about things. Some folk never learn, as they think they already know it all. 

The thing is, they do get asked back and get decent money!

[Bluewine]

Here's something I don't understand.  When a sound guy is checking the monitor volume on stage. They check it from the house. Of course I can hear my vocals and bass when nobody else is playing.

 

Why wouldn't they check monitor volume when the band is playing on stage. That would be the real test for me.

 

Daryl

[itsmedunc]

27 minutes ago, Bluewine said:

Here's something I don't understand.  When a sound guy is checking the monitor volume on stage. They check it from the house. Of course I can hear my vocals and bass when nobody else is playing.

 

Why wouldn't they check monitor volume when the band is playing on stage. That would be the real test for me.

 

Daryl

I guess they are just checking everything is working ok and you have some sort of decent level. The presumption being that you will let them know if you need ‘more’ when the band is playing?

[Dad3353]

38 minutes ago, Bluewine said:

Here's something I don't understand.  When a sound guy is checking the monitor volume on stage. They check it from the house. Of course I can hear my vocals and bass when nobody else is playing.

 

Why wouldn't they check monitor volume when the band is playing on stage. That would be the real test for me.

 

Daryl

 

Most that I've worked with pop up onto the stage whilst the band is playing a 'test' number, to check exactly that. It's more or less routine, towards the end of the sound check.