15 or not 15? What do you think?

[Dan Dare]

I used a Bassman 2x15 for years, with the rubbish stock drivers replaced by Peavey Black Widows. Loved the sound, but I got too old/decrepit to carry it up the stairs to my first floor flat in the end. 

 

I agree with msb. Modern 12s can do all that traditional 15s could. I keep thinking I'd like another 15 (single with a neo magnet should solve the problems carrying it). These days, I'm using 5s. Lots of them.

Edited Saturday at 08:23 by Dan Dare

[chris_b]

At one point everyone thought you had to have a V8 in a sports car to be fast and cool, then they started designing 4 cylinder engines that were faster and more efficient.

 

In cabs, the size of the speaker is the wrong way to measure volume and tone.

[msb]

I just have one tiny little cab with 2 5’s , it sounds great if you sit right in front of it , but it doesn’t fill a room. Also have a little Barefaced One 10 that isn’t that much larger. That One 10 defies physics. 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

That One 10 defines physics. Moving air isn't just an expression, it's how speakers work. A high quality modern ten with 8mm excursion capacity will move as much air as vintage fifteen with 3mm excursion.

[DGBass]

There has been some comparisons between modern high quality 10s and 12s and "traditional" 15s and how these modern drivers can out perform the trad 15s which is probably a valid point that also encompasses modern cabinet designs. Saying that, will a modern high quality 10 or 12 with an 8mm excursion be able to move as much air as a modern high quality 15 with an 8mm excursion? And will a modern 10 or 12 ever actually sound like a modern 15? 15 inch speakers in my experience also have a tone all of their own which I personally like, and I think this still makes them a valid choice for me. Perhaps BF are thinking along the same lines and feel the need to fill a gap in their product line with a new up to date take on a 15 cab ( which they originally did ). These days its an easier sell doing a lightweight 2x15 cab, or a 15 + 12 cab or maybe even a 15 +10 cab( all cab designs TE did back in the day) which will be bigger from the outset, rather than trying to market a 1x15 cab as a compact option. 15 inch speakers sound different from 10s or 12s which still makes them valid tonally imho, and modern neo 15s( like the Faital pro 15-PR400) in particular are a world apart from "traditional" 15s of old. 15s also 'feel' different and I think that's something that's sadly lacking where the bass maybe heard a lot easier these days with modern 10 and 12 cabs, but is no longer felt the same way as 15s can deliver. 🫤 
 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

54 minutes ago, DGBass said:

 will a modern high quality 10 or 12 with an 8mm excursion be able to move as much air as a modern high quality 15 with an 8mm excursion?

Of course not. But a fifteen cannot realize the dispersion of a ten, or a twelve, which is their primary advantage, while still being able to deliver enough output to fill the stage, leaving the heavy lifting out front to the PA.

[Beedster]

5 hours ago, DGBass said:

15s also 'feel' different and I think that's something that's sadly lacking where the bass maybe heard a lot easier these days with modern 10 and 12 cabs, but is no longer felt the same way as 15s can deliver. 🫤 

 

I agree, I'd be hard pushed to describe any objective difference in tone between many modern 12s and traditional 15s, but - and I'm sure there's a lot of personal bias in the mix - I always prefer 15s for the feel (although I'm using a Mesa 1516 so not a 15 alone)

[Sparky Mark]

On 30/04/2025 at 21:19, Chienmortbb said:

To judge those 15s, you must listen using decent headphones or speakers. As I heard it, the Trace sounded best followed by the Barefaced next and the Markbass sounded like a P bass with 90-year-old rounds on, no clarity at all.  I know that Markbass cabs are Marmite. In a cab shoot-out. In consequent years, at the South west Bass Bash, Markbass were voted best and worst cabs.

 

In 2025 surely the benefit of 12s and 10s, in a well-designed cab has been proven. Cabs for Barefaced and LFSys have proven that 12s are the modern sweet spot for bass, especially when crossed-over properly to a decent compression driver horn combination That gives you the benefits of that Trace 15 with the power handling to go loud.  Even the simple crossover on the BC110T sounds better than most commercial cabs.

 

I'm a little sceptical of Alex's choice of the extra compact Markbass JB combo for this comparison. One of the larger format MB single 15 cabs would've been a fairer comparison to the BF.

Anyhow, my one single 15 cab is a Trace Elliot compact 15 ( can't recall the exact product reference number ATM) loaded with that Fane axiom driver. It sounds absolutely beautiful and I've gigged it in medium sized venues successfully for rock covers, no problems with being heard.

[chris_b]

Seems like people pine for the 15's of old. Back then our sound was limited by the speakers. Our sound was altered by the limitations of the cab. Now we can buy speakers that faithfully reproduce the sound of our basses and amps. I wouldn't want to go back even 10 years in speaker history. IMO we have some great cabs being designed and made right now, and 2 of the best are being made in the UK.

[neepheid]

I guess all these folk pining for their old school 15" cabs have someone carting them around on their behalf, yes?

 

[Beedster]

1 minute ago, neepheid said:

I guess all these folk pining for their old school 15" cabs have someone carting them around on their behalf, yes?

 

Yep, me, I’m an advocate of the use it lose approach to back strength however, so I’m quite happy that way 👍

[neepheid]

11 minutes ago, Beedster said:

Yep, me, I’m an advocate of the use it lose approach to back strength however, so I’m quite happy that way 👍

 

I'll keep this in mind next time I need a roadie then...

 

[Beedster]

36 minutes ago, neepheid said:

 

I'll keep this in mind next time I need a roadie then...

 

I’m not cheap 👍😆

[Sparky Mark]

38 minutes ago, neepheid said:

I guess all these folk pining for their old school 15" cabs have someone carting them around on their behalf, yes?

 

I have both lightweight and midweight cabs. The heaviest are my 56lb Bergantino HD210, the lightest are 29lb MB NY121P, with a few others in between. My choice for gigs depends partly on the venue, partly on the fee and partly on load in attributes. I use a folding trolley to move my cabs almost every time. My 100lb cabs went years ago, and I will be sad the day I can't shift my HD210s (one at a time). At 62 years old, I know that will happen before too long and I completely agree modern systems can be more accurate and go louder, but I don't want FRFR or huge volumes, so I'll gradually work my way down my cabs until I fade away.

 

 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

1 hour ago, chris_b said:

I wouldn't want to go back even 10 years in speaker history. IMO we have some great cabs being designed and made right now, and 2 of the best are being made in the UK.

Current state of the art in driver design was realized closer to 20 years ago. What's changed since then is more and more sources are producing state of the art drivers.

[crazycloud]

On 04/05/2025 at 21:07, Beedster said:

I’m an advocate of the use it lose approach to back strength however, so I’m quite happy that way

Ditto. One of my fave basses, the ATK is 5.22kg and one of my SR 6 strings, just on 5kg. I haven't played a 4 hour set in ages, but I have stood practicing and writing with both on a strap for that long.

On 04/05/2025 at 20:49, chris_b said:

Seems like people pine for the 15's of old.

No, as I still have a 1x15 and a 2x15 from the 80s and 70s respectively, but I like the ease of air movement that larger drivers have. I agree with the earlier comments about dispersion, but for 40y I've gotten around that with multi way cabs as I've preferred a clean wideband speaker that I can EQ to my tastes, not just having it baked in and smothering like an old Ampeg. These days with multiFX and modellers, I can make my cabs sound like just about anything, good enough for me and anyone else except for maybe the one old tone cork sniffer I might run into every few years.

 

The cab currently under construction is a 15 + 8 coax, in 2 boxes so it will fit into the back of my sedan. This adds a little weight to the total, but it's 2 smaller boxes so each are easier to manhandle and the coax can be raised on a stick to ear height. I designed it for what I wanted as there aren't any commercial boxes available, new or S/H that do what I want.

Edited 13 hours ago by crazycloud

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

3 hours ago, crazycloud said:

 I agree with the earlier comments about dispersion, but for 40y I've gotten around that with multi way cabs

Which proves the point. A common assumption is that midrange drivers are paired with woofers to extend the high frequency response. That's true to some extent, but the main reason for using midrange drivers is they deliver wider dispersion than woofers. That's because they're smaller. Tweeters are smaller than midranges for the same reason. Time was when you had to use a fifteen to get enough cone displacement for the lows along with a midrange for dispersion in the mids. That hasn't been the case since the turn of the century.

[crazycloud]

6 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Time was when you had to use a fifteen to get enough cone displacement for the lows along with a midrange for dispersion in the mids. That hasn't been the case since the turn of the century.

That's a rather blanket statement, that I don't entirely agree with. I like the BW and wide dispersion, and the clean SPL from reduced cone movement from the 15 operating at lower excursion. My rig is used for 5/6 string bass (B-C, E-E) as well as guitar at the same time (same gig, not simultaneously). I've yet to find any smaller drivers that I like that work as well for what my system needs are. Overall, I find what I use to be a pretty good compromise in terms of LF, SPL, physical size, weight and form factor, and these are far from the first systems I've engineered.