Struggling with sound engineering guitarist

[itu]

As it has been said a couple of times:

Hire a sound wo/man to make a new template, and mix the next few gigs ("because we can concentrate on playing", "our sound needs some expertise"). After say, three gigs, the new sound should be the state of the art. If that g-word player wants to change it, you can ask how it will become better, because the pro fixed it already.

 

I know there are people who do not understand mixers too well, and want to see the (distorted) lights flash. A cool extra is to get an hour from that sound wo/man that tells everybody, what should be done. I would love to participate. How to get the most out of the desk.

 

(By the way: "This is my mixer" sounds so very childish.)

[Boodang]

I'm a drummer as well as a bassist and I absolutely hate the hand grenade kick sound out of the PA. 

So, I'm that band member that does the sound engineering at gigs.... but only because no one else wants to do it. I hate juggling bass/drum duties with mixing, it takes my focus away from playing but hey, what can you do hire a sound guy, like we can afford that.

Anyway, one way to do deal with it, and what we do, is record the gig. I do it two fold, from the desk and with a field recorder in the room to get the audience perspective. As a band we play it back to analyse our performance and see what needs tweaking, that includes the PA mix which the band are quite particular about. 

[JapanAxe]

2 minutes ago, Boodang said:

I'm a drummer as well as a bassist and I absolutely hate the hand grenade kick sound out of the PA. 

So, I'm that band member that does the sound engineering at gigs.... but only because no one else wants to do it. I hate juggling bass/drum duties with mixing, it takes my focus away from playing but hey, what can you do hire a sound guy, like we can afford that.

Anyway, one way to do deal with it, and what we do, is record the gig. I do it two fold, from the desk and with a field recorder in the room to get the audience perspective. As a band we play it back to analyse our performance and see what needs tweaking, that includes the PA mix which the band are quite particular about. 

I agree but the trouble is, matey will hear the guitar-and-kick-drum-heavy mix and say ‘Yeah, nothing wrong with that!’

[Boodang]

2 minutes ago, JapanAxe said:

I agree but the trouble is, matey will hear the guitar-and-kick-drum-heavy mix and say ‘Yeah, nothing wrong with that!’

That's a shame and puts you in a difficult position. Audience feedback sounds like the only thing that might make a difference but that's awkward, you can hardly canvas the crowd on the night like a focus group.

[mrtcat]

39 minutes ago, JapanAxe said:

I agree but the trouble is, matey will hear the guitar-and-kick-drum-heavy mix and say ‘Yeah, nothing wrong with that!’

This is the issue. He's really competent at mixing and the sound we have is the sound he wants. The problem is that it's not really the right sound for indie pop at a wedding. If we were a metal band it would be pretty good.

 

It all comes down to his personal preference. Getting a pro engineer in to mix would probably be a bit pointless because he wouldn't like the mix they came up with. 

[Lozz196]

The only thing here is democracy/majority. If you got in an independent sound engineer and most of you went a different way than the guitarist then majority wins.
 

Then write down the settings and have the mixer on the opposite side of the stage to him, and reset them immediately before each set - because he will change them when you aren’t paying attention.
 

 

[Beedster]

20 minutes ago, mrtcat said:

It all comes down to his personal preference. Getting a pro engineer in to mix would probably be a bit pointless because he wouldn't like the mix they came up with. 

 

Yep, this is not an audio issue it's a political one, far more tricky, and as I said earlier, I think it's one you just have to live with, not least because as I've found too many times, the mix/engineering I often hate at a gig other people love and vice versa. Good luck either way mate, but if you have in-ears and the sound isn't your responsibility, I'd just set up a decent mix for yourself and leave it there, or you risk winning the battle but losing the war 👍

[Cosmo Valdemar]

12 hours ago, mrtcat said:

Anyone else tear their hair out with the band member who does the band's live sound?

 

4 piece wedding band (guitar x2, bass, drums and occasional keys from singer guitarist).

 

Our guitarist does the mixing. He's a brilliant player but comes from a heavy metal background. We play standard wedding indie / pop rock at a huge variety of venues. He pumps the kick drum, buries the bass guitar (i swear he hates bass guitar and often jokes about it) absolutely drowns everything in his guitar and eq's the vocals so they don't get in the way. It absolutely kills me every time. I'm there for the money but it would be nice to feel like I'm part of the sound and I think we just sound like a blaring mess. I've offered to mix countless times but he complains endlessly and, as it's his mixer, he generally pulls rank and takes over.

 

If we get the usual venue complaints of "it's too loud and there's too much bass" it's usually a reference to the absolutely thumping kick drum but he laughs and just turns the bass guitar down even further.

 

Annoyingly, he's a lovely guy when he's not mixing. 

Guitarist sounds like an absolute child. But, if you're just there for the money, probably easiest to not make a fuss. Just point out after each gig how awful the sound was 😆

[JapanAxe]

3 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

The only thing here is democracy/majority. If you got in an independent sound engineer and most of you went a different way than the guitarist then majority wins.
 

Then write down the settings and have the mixer on the opposite side of the stage to him, and reset them immediately before each set - because he will change them when you aren’t paying attention.
 

 

 

I’ve definitely never loosened the DI cable of a fellow band member so that their already-too-loud amp didn’t also get fed into the PA, and I most certainly never pushed the plug back in again at the end of the last set so that they didn’t know anything had happened.

 

But seriously, if matey gets wind that his settings have been messed with, there will be tears before bedtime.

[TimR]

The real questions should be:

 

"Are you getting gigs for weddings where the couple are saying 'We saw you at X's wedding'?". 

 

"Are people dancing to your music and having a good time?" Usually after the buffet, but extra points for people staying on the dance floor after the first dance..

 

If you are, then don't worry about it. We are our own worst critics. 

[spencer.b]

Get a bigger amp and turn up a bit after every song!

Edited Wednesday at 22:52 by spencer.b

[bassintheface]

Get an independent Sound eng to mix the band for a wedding.

generally, the crowd will want to dance to songs they know, hear a balanced mix and not leave with incurable hearing damage or temporary threshold shift.

its not a ‘gig’ in the sense that people are there to be ‘taken on a sonic journey’  with the guitarist’s pedal collection.

neither will they be arsed about the drummer’s intricate cymbal work, or whether the bass player is playing half rounds on a custom Dingwall, through a kemper.

 

Just have the straight conversation with your man.

Ultimately, if it sounds pap out front, people will ultimately talk, the bookings will reduce and you’ll get less work.

 

or leave the band of course 

[zbd1960]

Long shot... try recording the sound with various set-ups and then have a session with you all listening to the recording on some decent kit.... Probably overly optimistic. As a long-in-the-tooth hi-fi nut, I know that not everyone hears things the same way.  

[martin8708]

On 28/04/2025 at 08:07, mrtcat said:

 

 

 

Our guitarist does the mixing. He's a brilliant player .

 

Annoyingly, he's a lovely guy when he's not mixing. 

Tough situation, but the very very best guitarists I’ve played with ( and drummers ) have not been loud , in fact , they have been surprisingly soft and we always try to crank them up in the mix .

I am in a similar situation, good mix in the rehearsal room , but come gig time , and suddenly the guitarist brings out the heavy artillery and we can’t hear the vocals , the drummers beating the hell out of his kit , and I’m staring at the ceiling hoping it doesn’t sound too krappy . 
As Steve says , I just suck it up , as bass players are easily replaced .