Silent stages - a soul-less gigging experience?

[Chienmortbb]

1 hour ago, lemmywinks said:

and the keys player won't get a smaller keyboard)

Of course he won't, he would be restricted to piano and organ parts then rather than trying to do everything.

[Jack]

17 hours ago, lemmywinks said:

 

 

Think I've listed it on the last "I love IEMs / I hate IEMs" thread! It's a  Behringer XR18 and 2 x Alto TS210 with a single Alto sub, TS15 or something like that. The rack bag is the G4M 3u shallow.

 

The two lads that joined already had the speakers from their last band so I assumed we'd be using them on a temporary basis until we had enough for some RCF cabs in the band kitty, was genuinely surprised at how good they sounded in a decent sized room though. Years later and we haven't upgraded yet!

 

Our old setup was 2 x RCF725 with 2 RCF subs, did some huge outdoor events (playing on a league one football pitch to one of the stands) with that rig and was brilliant, the subs weighed a lot though and were pretty massive. Wouldn't expect anything like that from the Altos but for indoor use they're very capable.

 

We're a 5 piece with keys (and the keys player won't get a smaller keyboard) so can struggle for stage space, I'm pretty tall so always struggled with hearing myself if I was right on top of my cabs. Don't miss my amps at all but do miss those RCF subs!

That makes a lot of sense. My hard rock bacd has been using Alto TS for over a decade now. 15 tops and 18 subs, one stack each side (yes, yes, center cluster...) and we feel the same. They are certainly over that 'good enough' threshold.

[lemmywinks]

39 minutes ago, Jack said:

That makes a lot of sense. My hard rock bacd has been using Alto TS for over a decade now. 15 tops and 18 subs, one stack each side (yes, yes, center cluster...) and we feel the same. They are certainly over that 'good enough' threshold.

 

The first gig we did with them I was doing the drum levels and was actually a bit surprised at how clear the kick was, half expected it to be pure mud or fart out. Big room and a single sub as well.

 

 

I can still remember the first PA we bought decades ago - Peavey HP400 with two huge subs, a floor standing rack unit with 3 stupidly heavy power amps, a separate crossover and an old Studiomaster (IIRC) desk in it and two heavy (and useless) wooden wedge monitors. Cost a fortune, didn't sound all that great, took an age to set up and was a PITA to load in/out. Our power amps kept breaking so we eventually had to add an additional one as a backup.

[Al Krow]

3 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

The first gig we did with them I was doing the drum levels and was actually a bit surprised at how clear the kick was, half expected it to be pure mud or fart out. Big room and a single sub as well.

 

I can still remember the first PA we bought decades ago - Peavey HP400 with two huge subs, a floor standing rack unit with 3 stupidly heavy power amps, a separate crossover and an old Studiomaster (IIRC) desk in it and two heavy (and useless) wooden wedge monitors. Cost a fortune, didn't sound all that great, took an age to set up and was a PITA to load in/out. Our power amps kept breaking so we eventually had to add an additional one as a backup.

 

Interesting that you found the RCF subs to be noticeably better. Can you remember which model you used? The RCF 705s look like a decent compromise of weight/power but won't be able to compete price wise with the Altos.

[lemmywinks]

47 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

Interesting that you found the RCF subs to be noticeably better. Can you remember which model you used? The RCF 705s look like a decent compromise of weight/power but won't be able to compete price wise with the Altos.

 

Well we had two of them and they were much bigger, heavier and more expensive! I think they were the 705 but the older versions, we got lucky and picked them up for £500 for the pair used. Even in smaller venues we'd use them both, not really for volume but more for the audio quality benefit.

 

Our current sub is lighter than one of our old RCF 725 tops.

[Jack]

6 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 

Interesting that you found the RCF subs to be noticeably better. Can you remember which model you used? The RCF 705s look like a decent compromise of weight/power but won't be able to compete price wise with the Altos.

We have a pair of the 705ii in my indie rock band. I'm on record (even in this thread) as saying that I think the Altos are great but the rcf walk over them. They go deeper and louder. To make the point we usually just run one, we've never ran just one Alto.

Edited April 26 by Jack

[lemmywinks]

Don't have any better pics (did have some zoomed out ones) but this is the sort of outdoor event we could do with the RCF setup

1.bmp

Edited April 26 by lemmywinks

[tauzero]

14 hours ago, Jack said:

That makes a lot of sense. My hard rock bacd has been using Alto TS for over a decade now. 15 tops and 18 subs, one stack each side (yes, yes, center cluster...) and we feel the same. They are certainly over that 'good enough' threshold.

 

I'm using Alto TS408s for FOH and TS308s (previously FOH) as monitors. PA is vocal only or vocal/guitar if the second guitarist doesn't want to carry his cab in.

[mrtcat]

On 26/04/2024 at 18:28, Jack said:

We have a pair of the 705ii in my indie rock band. I'm on record (even in this thread) as saying that I think the Altos are great but the rcf walk over them. They go deeper and louder. To make the point we usually just run one, we've never ran just one Alto.

We have the same subs and they're extremely good and also nice and compact. A pair of them coupled together can out run our RCF 745 tops and therefore they do more than we need to do which is exactly what I want in subs. That way I know we're not pushing them too hard.

[Elfrasho]

It's generally only guitarists that find that and I have a suspicion its because they now can hear clearly what they're actually playing so they now need to actually play properly rather than rely on the wall  raw volume to mask their playing!

 

 

[StingRayBoy42]

19 minutes ago, Elfrasho said:

It's generally only guitarists that find that and I have a suspicion its because they now can hear clearly what they're actually playing so they now need to actually play properly rather than rely on the wall  raw volume to mask their playing!

 

 

If they can tell you're out of tune, you need more distortions

[Babyboomer]

I'm in a three piece covers band. We don't use in ears, but two of us are interested.

The problem that we can forsee is that without anyone FOH to check and adjust the PA, it could be very difficult to know what the audience are hearing.

 

[EBS_freak]

42 minutes ago, Babyboomer said:

I'm in a three piece covers band. We don't use in ears, but two of us are interested.

The problem that we can forsee is that without anyone FOH to check and adjust the PA, it could be very difficult to know what the audience are hearing.

 

If you sound check things should be ok - as with inears, you are less inclined to have players turn around and mess with their amps. Less ear fatigue also further reduces reduces this risk.

[Al Krow]

[Deleted comment: a much more useful / straightforward suggestion by @gazhowe below 😊]

Edited yesterday at 15:58 by Al Krow

[gazhowe]

6 hours ago, Babyboomer said:

I'm in a three piece covers band. We don't use in ears, but two of us are interested.

The problem that we can forsee is that without anyone FOH to check and adjust the PA, it could be very difficult to know what the audience are hearing.

 

If you have a wireless system for your bass or a long lead you can go out front to sound check without your iem in. Provided everything sounds good you have to then assume that there will be nothing major that needs fixing in the mix and avoid adjusting anything on your mixing desk mid-set (assuming you don't go out front again and listen again without your iem's in).

Edited yesterday at 13:32 by gazhowe