Compact class D bass amps.

[Paddy Morris]

Are there any really differences between the Gnome 200, the TC BAM 200, the Trace ELF200 etc?

 

The exact same layout of the front panel and rear, and identical feature set makes one think that they are probably the same, Chinese pre-assembled PCB, and what you're actually choosing is the case that it comes in.

 

I have no problem with that, because they're all very good value for money. But is there a subtle difference between them?

[Lozz196]

There’s a thread on here where some Basschatters did a shootout between those, seems that there are differences from recall

[Baloney Balderdash]

Yes there is!

 

And no, they are not!

 

They are all unique designs, and they are as different as any other amps compared to each other.

 

The miniscule size just kind of limits how creative you can be in terms of unique layouts, or for adding additional features beyond the bare necessity. 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Paddy Morris]

Thanks. Just found and read that comparison between them.  All very interesting.

[Marty Forrer]

FWIW: I have tried all 3, and I found the Gnome best, Bam 2nd and I didn't like the Elf. The Elf had this built-in compression that increased as the volume came up. I ended up with a GK MB200, better even though it was used.

[Aalin]

Does the EQ of the Gnome seems to you better than the Bam, or why do you put the Gnome in first ?

I find the Bam a little bit too hot.

Thank's for your answer

[ebenezer]

If it was me, and it isn't i would buy a 500 watt head.... markbass LM3 or similar....i used one with the trace elliot elf 110 with great results.  

[Phil Starr]

On 04/10/2023 at 23:47, Paddy Morris said:

Thanks. Just found and read that comparison between them.  All very interesting.

As it happens we are going to the SW bass bash tomorrow and we will be doing a shootout of amps. I’m hoping that we will be able to start with the three micro amps. I’ll report back.

 

We got to look inside all three. Whilst they aren’t identical they all seem to use the same chips in the output stage and similar power supplies. The pre amps are different so they were developed separately. The standard of construction was similar and good so IMO you should buy on sound or cosmetics with confidence that there isn’t a best one you’re missing out on.

 

My Gnome has been 100% so far and I rarely use my bigger amps but I do go through the PA so most of what it does is at rehearsals.

[BassmanPaul]

11 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

As it happens we are going to the SW bass bash tomorrow 

 

sulk!  

 

I'd love to attend one of those but, alas, I'm too far away. 🥲

[TimR]

On 05/10/2023 at 10:57, ebenezer said:

If it was me, and it isn't i would buy a 500 watt head.... markbass LM3 or similar....i used one with the trace elliot elf 110 with great results.  

 

I'm wondering about the Gnome 600.

[ebenezer]

Good call, at least you will have decent horsepower should you want to do proper gigs.....i know it will be slightly bigger than the crop of 200 watt micros but still fairly small and usable...i wouldn't waste my money on the 200 watt amps  

[TimR]

10 minutes ago, ebenezer said:

Good call, at least you will have decent horsepower should you want to do proper gigs.....i know it will be slightly bigger than the crop of 200 watt micros but still fairly small and usable...i wouldn't waste my money on the 200 watt amps  

 

Ha. I'm not the OP. Assuming you're replying to me. Currently I'm using a Warwick Profet 5.1 for bigger gigs into a pair of 210pros. But something lighter would be good. 

 

Think the 5.1 weighs about 15kg with flight case. 

[asingardenof]

On 05/10/2023 at 03:25, Marty Forrer said:

FWIW: I have tried all 3, and I found the Gnome best, Bam 2nd and I didn't like the Elf. The Elf had this built-in compression that increased as the volume came up. I ended up with a GK MB200, better even though it was used.

 

I stand to be corrected but doesn't the in-built compression in the Elf increase as you increase the gain not the volume? I believe that's what TE claim anyway. I've never pushed mine hard enough to notice so am happy to be educated on this front.

[Paddy Morris]

Thanks for all the replies to this.  I really appreciate it.  So it seems as though most of these amps share the same generic output board and switched mode PSU. But the front end is where the designs are all customised..

 

Interestingly, just looking on reverb / ebay / gumtree,  there are very few BAMs, Gnomes or Ants that people want to shift (none in fact) but quite a few Elfs (or Elves, whatever)

[Phil Starr]

On 07/10/2023 at 20:38, BassmanPaul said:

 

sulk!  

 

I'd love to attend one of those but, alas, I'm too far away. 🥲

We'd love to see you at ours, maybe combine it with a holiday or take a sabbatical in the UK

 

 

[Phil Starr]

4 hours ago, Paddy Morris said:

Thanks for all the replies to this.  I really appreciate it.  So it seems as though most of these amps share the same generic output board and switched mode PSU. But the front end is where the designs are all customised..

 

Interestingly, just looking on reverb / ebay / gumtree,  there are very few BAMs, Gnomes or Ants that people want to shift (none in fact) but quite a few Elfs (or Elves, whatever)

I think that's maybe the price difference, Thomann are listing the Gnome at £129 so used at say £90 isn't going to tempt anyone to sell. You could hardly buy a pedal for that sort of price and for the buyer it's not enough of a saving to not buy new.

 

[Phil Starr]

I said I'd report back from the shootout, a disclaimer here I was behind the speakers so I personally couldn't hear the direct output maybe John @Chienmortbb or @stevie or any of the other bassists there would like to comment? Even behind the speakers you could immediately hear the differences in sound and up on stage I could see the difference in audience reaction and I talked to people afterwards and a bit of what I'm saying here reflects those conversations.

 

So the set up was straightforward: we had two LFSys Monaco speakers (very high quality FRFR bass speakers) with yours truly swapping the amps whilst @MichaelDean did the honours with the bass. Initially all the amps had the controls set to 12.00 except the master volume.

 

Gnome first: no reason other than it was my amp and was set up before I went out looking for the others. It caused quite a stir on first few notes and at the end a couple of people said they were suffering GAS for one/going to get one. They are very bright airy and modern sounding.

 

Next up the Elf: again this created quite a reaction. It's immediately quite a loud sound, a bit richer in the bass and with a really pleasing mid scoop. It kind of did have the generic Trace sound as proven later when we tried a proper Trace amp. It had a noticeably higher gain and was initially louder with the master at 12.00. Obviously that doesn't give you any extra power but it's going to jump out at you if you get to try one in a shop which is why they do it of course. 

 

Finally the BAM: to be honest it didn't get quite the same audience response but that was probably about the way we tested, I know from the measurements we did last year that it is in between the other two amps and that is exactly how it sounded. the Elf has a stronger bass and the Gnome a stronger top end sparkle. Like any taste test more always creates the stronger initial impression so the other two got the attention. It's still a fine amp.

 

Once we had all three i went back to the Gnome and asked Michael to forget 12.00 and try to make the Gnome sound like the Elf, within 30 secs he was getting there and you should be able to get all three amps sounding similar to each other with just a little patience and without maxing out the tne controls. Again from last year's measurements I know the mid control works in the centre of the mid scoop they all have so it's relatively simple to remove that or to increase it. Finally I cranked the Gnome to demonstrate what sort of levels you could expect from 130W into 8ohms. There was still a bit of bass boost from the tone matching to the Elf and i took it to clear distortion and cut back to where i could just hear the distortion from behind the speakers. I could still hear the peaks being limited but this would be louder than I'd be likely to need on stage. In practice when I do use back line the Gnome doesn't really struggle as a stage monitor for bass and I only use my bigger amp when I have no PA support. The LFSys Monacos are 98db/W @ 1m. I'd like to thank Stevie for providing them and I've now bought one of the ones I used. I don't think there is a better FRFR bass speaker out there at the moment based on sound quality alone. I'd like to thank all the people who lent me their amps and Michael for being brave enough to demonstrate the amps to a room full of other bass players, I'd have frozen

 

 

[Lozz196]

The more I read about the Warwick Gnome and @stevies cabs the more I`m thinking these might be ideal for me.  

[Phil Starr]

Yeah I think for anyone who wants to shape their own colour LFSys is the way to go, unless extreme lightweight trumps sound quality. Although they aren't that heavy I'm 71 and carrying them up a flight of stairs is no issue, but Barefaced are just silly.

[asingardenof]

6 hours ago, Paddy Morris said:

Interestingly, just looking on reverb / ebay / gumtree,  there are very few BAMs, Gnomes or Ants that people want to shift (none in fact) but quite a few Elfs (or Elves, whatever)

 

That may well be more to do with how many Elfs have been bought new compared to the others, rather than a disproportionately large proportion of Elfs being moved on.

[Paddy Morris]

2 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

I said I'd report back from the shootout, a disclaimer here I was behind the speakers so I personally couldn't hear the direct output maybe John @Chienmortbb or @stevie or any of the other bassists there would like to comment? Even behind the speakers you could immediately hear the differences in sound and up on stage I could see the difference in audience reaction and I talked to people afterwards and a bit of what I'm saying here reflects those conversations.

 

So the set up was straightforward: we had two LFSys Monaco speakers (very high quality FRFR bass speakers) with yours truly swapping the amps whilst @MichaelDean did the honours with the bass. Initially all the amps had the controls set to 12.00 except the master volume.

 

Gnome first: no reason other than it was my amp and was set up before I went out looking for the others. It caused quite a stir on first few notes and at the end a couple of people said they were suffering GAS for one/going to get one. They are very bright airy and modern sounding.

 

Next up the Elf: again this created quite a reaction. It's immediately quite a loud sound, a bit richer in the bass and with a really pleasing mid scoop. It kind of did have the generic Trace sound as proven later when we tried a proper Trace amp. It had a noticeably higher gain and was initially louder with the master at 12.00. Obviously that doesn't give you any extra power but it's going to jump out at you if you get to try one in a shop which is why they do it of course. 

 

Finally the BAM: to be honest it didn't get quite the same audience response but that was probably about the way we tested, I know from the measurements we did last year that it is in between the other two amps and that is exactly how it sounded. the Elf has a stronger bass and the Gnome a stronger top end sparkle. Like any taste test more always creates the stronger initial impression so the other two got the attention. It's still a fine amp.

 

Once we had all three i went back to the Gnome and asked Michael to forget 12.00 and try to make the Gnome sound like the Elf, within 30 secs he was getting there and you should be able to get all three amps sounding similar to each other with just a little patience and without maxing out the tne controls. Again from last year's measurements I know the mid control works in the centre of the mid scoop they all have so it's relatively simple to remove that or to increase it. Finally I cranked the Gnome to demonstrate what sort of levels you could expect from 130W into 8ohms. There was still a bit of bass boost from the tone matching to the Elf and i took it to clear distortion and cut back to where i could just hear the distortion from behind the speakers. I could still hear the peaks being limited but this would be louder than I'd be likely to need on stage. In practice when I do use back line the Gnome doesn't really struggle as a stage monitor for bass and I only use my bigger amp when I have no PA support. The LFSys Monacos are 98db/W @ 1m. I'd like to thank Stevie for providing them and I've now bought one of the ones I used. I don't think there is a better FRFR bass speaker out there at the moment based on sound quality alone. I'd like to thank all the people who lent me their amps and Michael for being brave enough to demonstrate the amps to a room full of other bass players, I'd have frozen

 

 

Brilliant report back.  Like a wine tasting, but louder.

[Chienmortbb]

I did video the shutout across two devices, and have not yet had the chance to look at/hear them. I know from my own gigging experience that the Bugera and Ashdown Amps I use (both class D) have way more power than I would ever need. Likewise, I suspect that the three mini amps on show would more than adequate for most of my gigs.  Of the three, the initial set up of the Elf was the most pleasing it had that mid-scoop that always sounds great on its own, but the Gnome and BAM were eminently usable with a few tweaks of the tone controls. If someone slipped any of them into my gig bag, I would be happy.

 

AS for the other amps on show, I will comment more when I post the videos, although of the bigger amps, I thought the Ashdown Valve head sounded lovely as did the old Trace A/B Mk6. @scrumpymike 's  SVT was also very nice.