Card Payments When Gigging

[northcountrybob]

Wondering if anyone has dealt with this but I'm in need of some advice...

 

When my band plays in the UK we have a SumUp card reader for taking GBP payments. They currently go to a personal account. 

When we play in the EU, we use the same reader, which I think charges in GBP still, but we update prices at the merch stand to show Euro & GBP and folk seems happy. (There is probably a better option). 

 

Now we're setting up as a proper company (it's just got to the point where it's the right time) and we have a US tour on the horizon. So, I think for the US we'd need a USD card reader, account and probably a US SIM for a phone or something. 

 

So just wondering how many people here tour overseas and how you guys might deal with this. Any tips? 

 

 

[skidder652003]

I can't help because I've never been that lucky enough to have that problem, but good luck with the US tour, I bet it'll be amazing.

[Mykesbass]

I may be wrong, but aren't the US still a bit more cash based for things like this?

[Agent 00Soul]

Card readers are getting more common, but Venmo transfers (which aren't available in Europe that I am aware) is what I've seen the most recently next to cash.

[Happy Jack]

I have relatively recent experience of trying to run a US bank account and a US cellphone with a US SIM.

 

My advice?

 

Don't even try.

 

American banking is decades behind Europe, even the supposedly big international outfits like Chase and Wells Fargo. All of their systems work on the assumption that you are a Yank, you live in the Land of the Free, and the only currency on the planet is US$. You WILL need to supply a valid US residential address, and quite possibly the Yank equivalent of a Social Security number, though certain banks are so obsessed with new business that the individual you are dealing with may well fudge that issue so that he/she can collect their next bonus. This WILL backfire on you if and when it all goes horribly wrong.

 

All assume that you can 'pop in' to your local branch to deal with certain issues. Very few have any system for dealing with, for example, an email from an English customer living in England, still less a phone call (transatlantic!) to their "Free Helpline - Just Call This Number". None are prepared to bend or amend any rules, no matter how obvious it is that something doesn't apply to you because you're a foreigner.

 

Running a US cellphone sort-of works so long as you are NEVER out of the country for more than a 6-month period (they have so many burners that any number unused for six months is recycled). And of course you need a US bank account. Oh no ... wait ...

 

I stress, this isn't "a guy in the pub told me", this is "I personally lived through this nightmare a few years ago".

 

Sometimes you just need to know when to walk away.

 

[Agent 00Soul]

I used my US bank account - I still keep a bit of money there for occasions like this.  You might well need one for Venmo or a card reader.  Not something I ever looked into.

 

In that case Cash Is King.  Just make sure you have lots of change to give.  20 dollar bills are the most popular denomination to pay for stuff.

 

For the phone, I would just buy/rent one at the airport if your UK plan doesn't work or is expensive in the US.  That's what I did first time I went back to NYC.  I also recommend renting a personal Hotspot at the same time.

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, Happy Jack said:

and quite possibly the Yank equivalent of a Social Security number

 

They call it 'a social security number'. Hope that helps!

[Lozz196]

56 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

They call it 'a social security number'. Hope that helps!

It really is a different country with a different language 🤣

[Downunderwonder]

7 hours ago, Mykesbass said:

for things like this?

Maybe, but in general they have caught up on contactless paying in a big way thanks to Covid.

[Agent 00Soul]

7 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

Maybe, but in general they have caught up on contactless paying in a big way thanks to Covid.

That’s true. I don’t know how much it would help the touring musician, but in terms of daily life about half the places I visited post-Covid did contactless. When I left only a few years ago, almost no place did. 

[chaypup]

The people in the UK Touring Crew Facebook group will have experience and be happy to help. 🙂

[G-Lo]

Couple of bits I know... You need to be a US tax resident BUT you can get an ITIN number instead. It's used for filing taxes or anything else you'd need an SSN number for but aren't entitled to.

 

Also, I use a data only eSIM when tavelling. Always more expensive than a local SIM but you don't need to mess around looking for one, needing adresses/ ID and the rest of them. I use Airalo but I think they're much of a muchness. I've attached a screengrab of their US rates.

 

Good luck!

[Steve Browning]

On 10/03/2023 at 15:10, northcountrybob said:

Wondering if anyone has dealt with this but I'm in need of some advice...

 

When my band plays in the UK we have a SumUp card reader for taking GBP payments. They currently go to a personal account. 

When we play in the EU, we use the same reader, which I think charges in GBP still, but we update prices at the merch stand to show Euro & GBP and folk seems happy. (There is probably a better option). 

 

Now we're setting up as a proper company (it's just got to the point where it's the right time) and we have a US tour on the horizon. So, I think for the US we'd need a USD card reader, account and probably a US SIM for a phone or something. 

 

So just wondering how many people here tour overseas and how you guys might deal with this. Any tips? 

 

 

 

Not related to your OP but a couple of things (ex VAT inspector and current EMEA VAT manager in a multi-national - for context). I assume you have taken advice but sometimes better to heart things twice rather than not at all.

 

Is the formality of a company the best vehicle? If you want someone out, you'd still be stuck with a shareholder entitled to dividends. A company will incur the bank charges of a business, no more getting away with a personal account. Would a business get away with not being registered for VAT in the EU if selling merch etc. (you may be already but the implication is that you're not).

 

Note trying to be difficult here, just raising a couple of things that struck me when reading your post. Good luck with all of it, of course. I may well be going back to music full time myself soon and cannot wait.

 

 

[tegs07]

Not sure if it’s helpful but several banks (HSBC is one) offer foreign currency accounts as well as global multi currency accounts that you can pay into and withdraw cash from in any currency:

 

https://www.hsbc.co.uk/international/travel-money-card/

 

[G-Lo]

13 hours ago, tegs07 said:

Not sure if it’s helpful but several banks (HSBC is one) offer foreign currency accounts as well as global multi currency accounts that you can pay into and withdraw cash from in any currency:

 

https://www.hsbc.co.uk/international/travel-money-card/

 

Or some great alternatives, Revolut, Wise and Starling might be very useful

[tegs07]

9 minutes ago, G-Lo said:

Or some great alternatives, Revolut, Wise and Starling might be very useful

I’ve always been a little concerned by their lack of FCSC protection. I’m probably over cautious though.

Edited March 12, 2023 by tegs07

[G-Lo]

9 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

I’ve always been a little concerned by their lack of FCSC protection. I’m probably over cautious though.

Things have changed. I am not sure about Wise and Starling, I use Wise to send money only. I do use Revolut a lot- for 90% of everything I spend- and am more than happy. They ARE a registered bank now with protection up to 100K. Having said that, I dont leave all my money in there. It's a habit from when they were indeed not a proper bank.

[northcountrybob]

14 hours ago, Steve Browning said:

Is the formality of a company the best vehicle? If you want someone out, you'd still be stuck with a shareholder entitled to dividends. A company will incur the bank charges of a business, no more getting away with a personal account. Would a business get away with not being registered for VAT in the EU if selling merch etc. (you may be already but the implication is that you're not).

 

Thanks for the heads up. I ran an amp repair business for a few years and we've had a discussion with the accountant I used for that. He works with a lot of musicians and had the same concerns you do. We also have a manager pushing us to go this route rather than a partnership. I think he's into the protection offered by a limited liability company. I don't think we'd get away with a personal account much longer. When a tours worth of merch/guarantees get paid in my person account, I'm a little concerned it'll flag something somewhere. A couple of the others need to be paid to compensate for loss of earnings during tours too. Think we're at that transitional point where going the limited company route might be a good idea. We just did an EU tour, and we have 3 US tours and another EU tour lined up this year. Also playing a bunch of festivals. This stuff is very new but we've all done bands for years. While in the US we'll be getting our own social security numbers because we'll need to pay tax. The EU VAT issues are something I'm aware of and I know there are some workarounds but we're yet to use them. (Workarounds like selling merch business to business to promoters and having them sell it locally for commission, then they deal with the VAT). Do need to look into that more. 

 

As far as payment go, I was hoping I could get an eSIM to use for a 2 weeks. Pair that to a card machine. I didn't know if that would work with a Starling business USD account directly (think Starling is FCSC protected?), it only deals with ACH payments?? I've used Wise a long time ago when I did work for a US amplifier factory, but with mixed results. 

 

 

[Steve Browning]

5 hours ago, northcountrybob said:

 

Thanks for the heads up. I ran an amp repair business for a few years and we've had a discussion with the accountant I used for that. He works with a lot of musicians and had the same concerns you do. We also have a manager pushing us to go this route rather than a partnership. I think he's into the protection offered by a limited liability company. I don't think we'd get away with a personal account much longer. When a tours worth of merch/guarantees get paid in my person account, I'm a little concerned it'll flag something somewhere. A couple of the others need to be paid to compensate for loss of earnings during tours too. Think we're at that transitional point where going the limited company route might be a good idea. We just did an EU tour, and we have 3 US tours and another EU tour lined up this year. Also playing a bunch of festivals. This stuff is very new but we've all done bands for years. While in the US we'll be getting our own social security numbers because we'll need to pay tax. The EU VAT issues are something I'm aware of and I know there are some workarounds but we're yet to use them. (Workarounds like selling merch business to business to promoters and having them sell it locally for commission, then they deal with the VAT). Do need to look into that more. 

 

As far as payment go, I was hoping I could get an eSIM to use for a 2 weeks. Pair that to a card machine. I didn't know if that would work with a Starling business USD account directly (think Starling is FCSC protected?), it only deals with ACH payments?? I've used Wise a long time ago when I did work for a US amplifier factory, but with mixed results. 

 

 

 

Glad you took that in the sprit it was meant. Glad to hear you're taking advice. Happy to help out on the VAT front if you have any questions. Bear in mind I can only tell you what you SHOULD do 😉

[tegs07]

6 hours ago, G-Lo said:

Things have changed. I am not sure about Wise and Starling, I use Wise to send money only. I do use Revolut a lot- for 90% of everything I spend- and am more than happy. They ARE a registered bank now with protection up to 100K. Having said that, I dont leave all my money in there. It's a habit from when they were indeed not a proper bank.

Looks like Wise have some exposure to SVB which has collapsed. They say it is minimal and nothing to be concerned about.

[northcountrybob]

1 hour ago, Steve Browning said:

 

Glad you took that in the sprit it was meant. Glad to hear you're taking advice. Happy to help out on the VAT front if you have any questions. Bear in mind I can only tell you what you SHOULD do 😉

 

Thanks for the offer! There's some advice on EU VAT issues given my musicians union. Seems complex. I'm sure it will cause some head scratching in future! 

 

18 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

Looks like Wise have some exposure to SVB which has collapsed. They say it is minimal and nothing to be concerned about.

 

Ah thanks for the heads up! I was just looking into using Venmo / Paypal for the merch but paying out into a Wise USD account or something. An american friend of mine in DC said when he does merch he often takes way way more Venmo / Cashapp / Paypal transaction. Zero on card. 

[G-Lo]

Another consideration. If you end up paying US taxes you'll need a US account to get your tax refund. They WILL pay into Wise, and generally speaking they will NO pay into non- US accounts

[northcountrybob]

Thanks! That's really good to know. Wasn't even aware of that

 

 

[asingardenof]

Contactless payments aren't common at all in the US (seriously, my MIL still has to sign receipts when she comes over here, which always leads to cashiers scrambling to find a pen and/or having to call a supervisor) so I'd suggest using Monzo, Venmo or PayPal. 

[asingardenof]

1 hour ago, G-Lo said:

Another consideration. If you end up paying US taxes you'll need a US account to get your tax refund. They WILL pay into Wise, and generally speaking they will NO pay into non- US accounts

You wouldn't need to pay US income tax unless you earn over $70k in a year (I think) but you may still have to file, in which case you'd need an ITIN number. If you do have to file and do end up earning over $70k then you'd claim that back as foreign earned income exclusion. The US tax system is extremely complicated and long-winded so good luck with that!