Dan Dare Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, msb said: I’ve had periods where my primary bass was fretless , and play upright, although today my main basses are fretted. I’ve been the house bassist for a weekly blues jam that has survived for over twenty five years and have noticed … when a guy shows up with a fretless bass … they tend to over play. They seem more concerned about melodic fills than setting a groove. Instead of playing the song they insist on something interesting and clever. Usually to the detriment of the groove and song. Now I did not say every one , but by far the majority. Yep. It seems to me that many who play fretless regard themselves as somehow superior to us lowly mortals who rely on frets. Perhaps they are drawn to fretless because they see it as a way to demonstrate their expertise. Hence the over-playing, superfluous frills and clever stuff. As it happens, I play fretless as well. I've played the violin for almost 60 years, so am used to not having those little bits of brass to keep me in tune. However, I rarely use it. It only comes out when it might be appropriate. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msb Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 First you serve the song. You don’t need to show everybody all your skilz or everything you know in one song. That’s showboating , not being a musician. Musicianship is all about ensemble playing, and working together. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 19 minutes ago, nilorius said: Playing just G F and A is not compitent skills. Depends entirely on the music. Do you want to play music or do you want to show off your skills? Just before the pandemic we tried to set a new band with a few members from an existing one and we needed a guitarist. The guy who could shred and tap and all that was not the guy that impressed us. The guy who impressed us was the guy who listened and played what was appropriate for the song. It turns out he can shred with the best, but he knows when to and when not to. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilorius Posted August 28, 2022 Author Share Posted August 28, 2022 22 minutes ago, Doddy said: It is if it's what is required to get the gig. What about other bassists they couldchoose, there are plenty of weak, slow and smiling bassists around. If i play just standarts and simple grooves, i can't show them that i can be better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 29 minutes ago, nilorius said: Playing just G F and A is not compitent skills. Ouch.... Well I wouldn't hire you for your attitude, and neither would many r not most of the bands I've worked with, irrespective of your undoubted skills. I stepped off bass about 10 years ago with the intention of playing another instrument in the band, and the guys auditioned several bass players, some of them (then) members on this forum (I did not attend the auditions). Their summary was that all of the candidates played too much, some of them played way way way too much, and some of them didn't seem to realise there were other musicians in the room at all. The guys had assumed that finding a bassist who could do what I do, support the song, would be easy. But no, they couldn't find a bass player to fill my shoes, which is kinda funny 'cos I'm pretty crap. But I know what to play and when, I listen to the whole mix not just me, I look at the other musicians, I look at the audience, and there are all the clues I need. Just occasionally I get the chance to shine, for example on Diamonds, and then I shine(ish). But otherwise, I'm happy to play three notes if that's what the song and the band needs, because the oldest rule in the book is that it's not the notes you play, it's how you play them. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, nilorius said: What about other bassists they couldchoose, there are plenty of weak, slow and smiling bassists around. If i play just standarts and simple grooves, i can't show them that i can be better. Then let them choose one of the other players who is obviously better for the gig than you are. Do you think I play all my jazz chops when I'm playing a punk/new wave gig? No. I take out a Precision bass and play what I'm required to play to make the band sound great and keep the gig. Edited August 28, 2022 by Doddy 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 I learned a nice lesson from Howard aka the bass doctor on here; ahead of an audition put on some heavy strings and set high action, you have to think twice before you get flash because every time to get flash it hurts 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 13 minutes ago, nilorius said: What about other bassists they couldchoose, there are plenty of weak, slow and smiling bassists around. If i play just standarts and simple grooves, i can't show them that i can be better. "Weak, smiling and slow bassists", huh? Well, you've forced my hand. A couple of people have alluded to what I'm about to say, but I'll give it to you straight. You uploaded a sample of your playing earlier. Being brutally honest, it consisted mainly of medium tempo, simple pentatonic clichés with occasionally slightly iffy timing. You may be the best or only bass player in your town, but you appear to have an unrealistic estimation of your abilities. Sorry to burst your bubble. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolverinebass Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 6 minutes ago, nilorius said: What about other bassists they couldchoose, there are plenty of weak, slow and smiling bassists around. If i play just standarts and simple grooves, i can't show them that i can be better. "Better," is a subjective point of view. If you want to show off, join a djent band and do loads of tapping. The more you dig your heels in over this the less folk will take you on. I used to think like that until my late 20s. Throw everything in and it'll be fine. Some bands don't dig on that level of nutterdom and won't hire you because of it. What I've learned is that yes, I could (and can) play as flamboyantly as I want,but does it make anything better? Usually the answer is "no." It's all picking your moments in the context of the genre. I'm guessing the attitude is one born of frustration, but seriously, calm down. If they're not into it, you won't win anyone over, by just saying you're "technically superior." Quite the reverse. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 18 minutes ago, nilorius said: What about other bassists they couldchoose, there are plenty of weak, slow and smiling bassists around. If i play just standarts and simple grooves, i can't show them that i can be better. In all seriousness and with the best of intentions, I suspect you don't need a band, you need a YouTube channel 👍 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiram.k.hackenbacker Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 9 minutes ago, Dan Dare said: "Weak, smiling and slow bassists", huh? Well, you've forced my hand. A couple of people have alluded to what I'm about to say, but I'll give it to you straight. You uploaded a sample of your playing earlier. Being brutally honest, it consisted mainly of medium tempo, simple pentatonic clichés with occasionally slightly iffy timing. You may be the best or only bass player in your town, but you appear to have an unrealistic estimation of your abilities. Sorry to burst your bubble. The elephant in the room has finally escaped 👍 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, Wolverinebass said: I'm guessing the attitude is one born of frustration, but seriously, calm down. If they're not into it, you won't win anyone over, by just saying you're "technically superior." Quite the reverse. Agreed...and, It may be a longer journey, but it might be worth the OP looking for a like minded band/bunch of musicians who feel equally frustrated and like to open up their playing with something more challenging. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilorius Posted August 28, 2022 Author Share Posted August 28, 2022 40 minutes ago, Beedster said: Ouch.... Well I wouldn't hire you for your attitude, and neither would many r not most of the bands I've worked with, irrespective of your undoubted skills. I stepped off bass about 10 years ago with the intention of playing another instrument in the band, and the guys auditioned several bass players, some of them (then) members on this forum (I did not attend the auditions). Their summary was that all of the candidates played too much, some of them played way way way too much, and some of them didn't seem to realise there were other musicians in the room at all. The guys had assumed that finding a bassist who could do what I do, support the song, would be easy. But no, they couldn't find a bass player to fill my shoes, which is kinda funny 'cos I'm pretty crap. But I know what to play and when, I listen to the whole mix not just me, I look at the other musicians, I look at the audience, and there are all the clues I need. Just occasionally I get the chance to shine, for example on Diamonds, and then I shine(ish). But otherwise, I'm happy to play three notes if that's what the song and the band needs, because the oldest rule in the book is that it's not the notes you play, it's how you play them. Yeah, once the situation was ruthm guiter/vocal, drum and me bass. The songs sound so cosy and i just thought why not to play just more advanced grooves and it sounded good, because drummer was bad and rythm guitarist just played cords. I don't see any point why i could not i have little bit of power in this situation. Otherwise - this will not be wourth anything at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubsonicSimpleton Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 Based on my experience of playing in various musical situations, the most desirable musical colleagues are good listeners and have good time feel - absolute technical ability level is not particularly important, because if you can play a simple part well you make space for others to contribute, but playing a complicated part badly just smears shite over everything. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilorius Posted August 28, 2022 Author Share Posted August 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, SubsonicSimpleton said: Based on my experience of playing in various musical situations, the most desirable musical colleagues are good listeners and have good time feel - absolute technical ability level is not particularly important, because if you can play a simple part well you make space for others to contribute, but playing a complicated part badly just smears shite over everything. S i said before - thre are 20 bassists to choose that can play simple level, so how can i prove that i am better at least 15 from them?????????????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munurmunuh Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 If you can't judge between the quality of articulation of 15 musicians playing a basic pattern, then here's one reason why you're not coming out as number 1 of 15 musicians 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilorius Posted August 28, 2022 Author Share Posted August 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, Ricky Rioli said: If you can't judge between the quality of articulation of 15 musicians playing a basic pattern, then here's one reason why you're not coming out as number 1 of 15 musicians Don't say you can! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubsonicSimpleton Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, nilorius said: S i said before - thre are 20 bassists to choose that can play simple level, so how can i prove that i am better at least 15 from them?????????????????? Not many people can actually play simple sounding parts with really solid consistent timing. Most people make the mistake when learning of equating complicated with good and neglect to ensure that their basic fundamentals are on point. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilorius Posted August 28, 2022 Author Share Posted August 28, 2022 1 minute ago, SubsonicSimpleton said: Not many people can actually play simple sounding parts with really solid consistent timing. Most people make the mistake when learning of equating complicated with good and neglect to ensure that their basic fundamentals are on point. But if the situation is they can? How and why to choose exactly that spiderman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 A band is a social entity as much as a musical one. If you are reasonably competent and can integrate socially (I don't mean going out for a drink together, I mean talking things through if there seems to be discord and finding out what the others are expecting from you and each other) then you stand a very good chance of getting in. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, nilorius said: Playing just G F and A is not compitent skills. Playing just G, F and A when that's what the music, and band, require is competent skills. The 'competent' part is the knowing when that's the case and when it isn't. There are thousands of very competent, professional bass players that play G, F and A very well indeed, and not much more. They get the gigs exactly because of that. Edited August 28, 2022 by Dad3353 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilorius Posted August 28, 2022 Author Share Posted August 28, 2022 Finally, i think the best way is to ask the band, just before playing, "well, what way do You want me to play - very simple, narmal or advanced"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 1 hour ago, nilorius said: ... i can't show them that i can be better. 'Better' is the enemy of 'Good'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilorius Posted August 28, 2022 Author Share Posted August 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, Dad3353 said: Playing just G, F and A when that's what the music, and band, require is competent skills. The 'competent part is the knowing when that's the case and when it isn't. There are thousands of very competent, professional bass players that play G, F and A very well indeed, and not much more. They get the gigs exactly because of that. Competent players? What do You know about the start of that competent and professional band ? I think - nothing. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 1 minute ago, nilorius said: Competent players? What do You know about the start of that competent and professional band ? I think - nothing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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