how our markets are different

[Killed_by_Death]

 

Here in the U.S., we sometimes get crazy different stuff, like this crazy-expensive J Custom from Ibáñez:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/JCSR2021NT--ibanez-made-in-japan-limited-jcsr2021ntl-bass-guitar-buckeye-burl-and-blue-resin

Here's the kicker, everything that matters is the same as a Prestige.

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Killed_by_Death
changed misspelling in title

[Woodinblack]

Wow - that is nice. 

Really the thing that makes the prestige a prestige is the made in Japan thing.

[M@23]

It looks fantastic. I’m sure as a high end bass, it’s great. But, as an investment, not so much. Is that unfair to Ibanez?

[Doddy]

5 hours ago, Killed_by_Death said:

Here's the kicker, everything that matters is the same as a Prestige.

 

Apart from the body wood, the expensive fancy top, and the neck wood?

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited March 11, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Paulhauser]

It is like this has been for a while for Ibanez, they churn out a couple of super expensive basses and either call them some versions of their Prestige lines or some signature ones like the top end Willis,  Veasley or Nitti models, all in an attempt to increase the perceived value of the brand by offering these at high prices almost nobody buys at but giving leverage for their entry to mid models which they are making most of their business. 

I own a bunch of Japaneese Prestige SR's and the brand always stays on my radar with models I want to own/ try so all the above is simply my observation, not a praise /critique. 

[Woodinblack]

39 minutes ago, M@23 said:

It looks fantastic. I’m sure as a high end bass, it’s great. But, as an investment, not so much. Is that unfair to Ibanez?

A bass is always a very poor investment unless it is something incredibly rare or owned by someone famous. There are a lot of actual investment things that will make you orders of magnitude more than any bass. 

[M@23]

13 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

A bass is always a very poor investment unless it is something incredibly rare or owned by someone famous. There are a lot of actual investment things that will make you orders of magnitude more than any bass. 

True, I guess what I really meant was, you’re far less likely to see a certain percentage return on the Ibanez than compared to other $6.5k basses, should the time come to shift it. Maybe not, but a Fodera of equal value new is surely easier to $5k back from. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by M@23

[Al Krow]

That's a mad price for that bass!! As the OP said it's basically a Prestige. 

And the kicker for me is actually not that it's a Prestige but that I would take a SR Premium over a SR Prestige, given the choice, anyway.

But there again I'm super happy with a Yamaha BB1025 which costs 1/4 of the almost identical BB2025 and would never look to spend the extra on a BB2025. 

And I like builder's tea.

Ok the penny is finally dropping: I'm actually just a pleb.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Al Krow

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited March 11, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Doctor J]

If the JC in the model stands for J-Custom then let me assure you they're a few steps up from Prestige. I've played a couple of Ibanez J-Custom guitars and they are on the highest of high levels, everything about them is exceptional. They are complete craft pieces.

It doesn't mean I'd buy one new but, then again, I wouldn't buy any guitar or bass new. Second hand, though, yeah, I'd be interested for sure.

[Al Krow]

3 minutes ago, Doctor J said:

If the JC in the model stands for J-Custom then let me assure you they're a few steps up from Prestige. I've played a couple of Ibanez J-Custom guitars and they are on the highest of high levels, everything about them is exceptional. They are complete craft pieces.

It doesn't mean I'd buy one new but, then again, I wouldn't buy any guitar or bass new. Second hand, though, yeah, I'd be interested for sure.

Well that's interesting. What is this bringing to the party for the additional $3k?

Edited January 31, 2021 by Al Krow

[Doctor J]

Ninja skillz.

[Doctor J]

Alternatively, they're like masterbuilt customshop pieces. The finest of everything carved by their very best staff with utterly ridiculous attention to detail.

[Doctor J]

J-Custom here with flamed maple binding, just a work of art.

[Al Krow]

But at the end of the day it's an Ibanez not a Fodera

Same EQ and same pups(?) as the Prestige range and blind tested I bet no one would hear any difference.

It's a bit like souping up a Ford Mondeo.

[Al Krow]

55 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

A bass is always a very poor investment unless it is something incredibly rare or owned by someone famous. There are a lot of actual investment things that will make you orders of magnitude more than any bass. 

Well that's definitely not the case if you're buying second hand and not overpaying on the way in.

There are plenty of "actual investment things" that will lose you orders of magnitude more than any bass - just ask the boys at Melvin who lost a cool $4.5 BILLION in January. Careless eh?

[Killed_by_Death]

 

ESP price their Japanese-made stuff about 4x more than the 'equivalent' LTD models.

 

29 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

I would take a SR Premium over a SR Prestige, given the choice, anyway.

Same here, but I detest Bartolini pickups, & the Prestige are actually about 500 Grams higher-Mass than a Premium.

 

1 hour ago, Doddy said:

Apart from the body wood, the expensive fancy top, and the neck wood?

The fancy top probably has a negative effect on the the overall timbre. resin?

The thinner the finish, the better, IME

The Purpleheart stringers in the neck probably don't make a noticable difference, so I stand behind 'everything that matters'.

Is the different woods, resin top, & superior craftsmanship worth over 3x that of a Prestige?

 

[Al Krow]

1 minute ago, Killed_by_Death said:

Same here, but I detest Bartolini pickups, & the Prestige are actually about 500 Grams higher-Mass than a Premium.

The Bart Mk1s in the standard range come in for a lot of stick. I love the Nords on the Premiums. Just great! But I understood the higher end Barts on the Prestige were pretty good?

[Doctor J]

7 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

But at the end of the day it's an Ibanez not a Fodera

Same EQ and same pups(?) as the Prestige range and blind tested I bet no one would hear any difference.

It's a bit like souping up a Ford Mondeo.

Fodera sell incredibly expensive basses with regular cheap EMGs in them so I'm not sure what your point is? Don't you think the best luthiers at Ibanez in Japan are capable of the same level of craftsmanship as the guys at Fodera? If not, why not? They're not regular production pieces.

[Killed_by_Death]

 

The 'custom' Bartolinis are still tame in comparison to the Big Singles.

just not a sound I want

You can tame the Nordstrands with EQ or a mute (to sound Vintage like the Barts), but you can't 'soup-up' the Barts to have the edge of the Nordstrand.

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Killed_by_Death

[Al Krow]

Just now, Doctor J said:

Fodera sell incredibly expensive basses with regular cheap EMGs in them so I'm not sure what your point is? Don't you think the best luthiers at Ibanez in Japan are capable of the same level of craftsmanship as the guys at Fodera? If not, why not? They're not regular production pieces.

Kinda fair point. But I actually don't think the best luthiers in Japan are necessarily going to better than the best luthiers in the UK or Czechoslovakia etc etc.

FWIW Jon Shuker designs fantastic basses which I would take over a Prestige every day of the week and would cost less than that range. I'd suggest his skills would go toe to toe with his Japanese counterparts and I would get a fantastic choice of pups and preamps thrown in. 

I think my key point is that at the end of the day the form factor is that of mass produced bass. Putting a pretty veneer on it doesn't change that; you're still souping up a Mondeo. 

[Killed_by_Death]

 

let them face off in hand-to-hand combat & I'll bet the Japanese would wipe the floor with them

😀

[Al Krow]

2 minutes ago, Killed_by_Death said:

let them face off in hand-to-hand combat & I'll bet the Japanese would wipe the floor with them

😀

Doc J did mention Ninja skillz earlier, so that point should probably be taken as read.

I think a meet up would probably be classed as "unnecessary travel" though.

[Doctor J]

9 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Kinda fair point. But I actually don't think the best luthiers in Japan are necessarily going to better than the best luthiers in the UK or Czechoslovakia etc etc.

FWIW Jon Shuker designs fantastic basses which I would take over a Prestige every day of the week and would cost less than that range. I'd suggest his skills would go toe to toe with his Japanese counterparts and I would get a fantastic choice of pups and preamps thrown in. 

I think my key point is that at the end of the day the form factor is that of mass produced bass. Putting a pretty veneer on it doesn't change that; you're still souping up a Mondeo. 

Who said they're better? Surely they're capable of being equal to the best, though? Again, if not, why not? They build within an established shape, so what? What difference does a shape make to how good or bad an instrument is? The analogy of a souped-up Mondeo is not really accurate though. These aren't after-market parts bolted onto a regular production item, these are custom built from the ground up.

We're living in an age where old production line Fenders, assembled by largely unskilled, cheap labour and cheap parts are worth several times that of a one-off artisan piece made by experienced and skilled luthiers, purely because they're old. Nobody furrows their brow over that. Strange times 🙂