EBS HD350/TD650

[ern500evo]

Hi guys. I’ve been toying with the idea of going away from class d and back to something more traditional. Partly driven by the low price of older amps at the moment, partly just by curiosity. I’ve had several class D’s, RH450 & 750, GB Shuttle 9.2, TH500, GK MB Fusion 500, Darkglass M900, the last two of which I still own. I keep getting drawn to  EBS heads, especially as no one ever seems to have a bad word to say about them. There’s a few HD350’s knocking around for around the £350 mark, and I’ve seen a couple of TD650’s for around the £450 mark. The Fafner looks great too, but harder to come by and pricier. For background, I’m doing mostly covers now, mainly rockier stuff but also some soul/blues/funk stuff too. Bass wise, my main players at present are my Warwick Streamer stage one, Yamaha Attitude Ltd 2, and my Dingwall NG2. Cab wise, I always use my Barefaced Big Twin 2. My question is, am I get gonna get much more benefit from the TD650 for the extra bit of outlay, is there a big difference in core tone, and how versatile are each of the heads,  Fafner included. . Also, as a curve ball, I see the Ashdown ABM600 Evo 4 getting a great deal of love here, so for the same kind of price, that could be a viable option too, I do use my old ABM500 for rehearsals quite often, the very early model with separate hi/lo inputs and no compressor. Apologies for the long winded post, that GAS is a bugger I tell ya! 

[thodrik]

Hi, I have the Fafner but have experience with all three. 

There is actually not much difference in terms of power and volume between the HD350, the 650 and Fafner (mk 1) in power and volume. The difference is more in the features and even then, I don't consider the amps to be radically different. The differences are more subtle. 

The HD 350 is a solid state amp. No valve but the 'drive' function allows you to dial in a bit grit. It is a really good all round amp. 

The TD 650 to my ears had essentially the same preamp as the HD350 but also has a tube that can be engaged with the drive. The drive section can be used without the tube (like the HD 350) or you could engage the tube to get a tube based drive like the Fafner. It was really considered the 'flagship' head of the three. If you don't need the bells and whistles of the tube drive though then the HD350 might be a better bet. 

The Fafner has a similar preamp again  but to me has a less refined sound.  It isn't a massive difference though and I would say that all three of the old EBS heads are equally as versatile. The Fafner has a tube in the drive section. You can't turn the tube 'off' like the TD650 though, it is always on but if you want a clean sound you just turn the drive down. The Fafner has more of a 'rock' look but it is equally as versatile as the others. 

In my view the Fafner looks the coolest and I went with that. It is a heavy lump of an amp though once you put it in a rack case, so factor that in too. As much as I love my one there are louder, lighter amps out there. 

The Ashdown is a good head too. In fact the Ashdown will deliver far more low sub bass than the EBS heads, which are designed to not really produce much frequencies below 100HZ. However, that is actually a great feature in a live setting as it means you never get a boomy, muddy sound.
 

[ern500evo]

That’s some great feedback and information! The valve drive wouldn’t be a massive deal, I’ve got a couple of drive pedals, an EBS Sheehan signature and a Ashdown Hyperdrive for if I ever want balls out distortion, so just the ability to add some warmth would  be sufficient, with my Darkglass head I’m playing clean most of the time or with the drive on fairly low. I agree that the Fafner does look really cool, and the weight wouldn’t really be that much of an issue, we all travel together in a van and it would live at our rehearsal space. They are more difficult to find and fetch a bit more though. That’s kind of what drags the ABM into it for me, PMT have a B stock ABM600 for £379 at the moment, which got me thinking, am I being crazy to pay the same kind of money for a much older solid state head like the HD350. With older and more desirable valve beasts like SVT’s I can understand it, but maybe not so much with SS stuff. The reputation of all three of the EBS heads does seem to be staggeringly good though, there seem to be very few players who’ve had bad or negative experiences with them. Good point too about the low/sub bass, If I ever take my early ABM out live, I always tend to roll the bottom end off. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by ern500evo

[ern500evo]

One other thing, can anyone tell me the differences between the early ‘grey stripe’ Fafner and the later ‘blue stripe’ version? 

[thodrik]

2 minutes ago, ern500evo said:

One other thing, can anyone tell me the differences between the early ‘grey stripe’ Fafner and the later ‘blue stripe’ version? 

They changed the power section. Some grey stripe ones had an issue where the power section would fail, particularly the power switch. Blue stripe ones have a bit more power and are generally a bit more reliable. 

[JapanAxe]

@EBS_freak ?

[EBS_freak]

As above

[EBS_freak]

The HD350 blue stripe, white lettering is my fave amp from EBS of the ones mentioned. Id take that over the Fafner or the TD650 - although you will want to run it ideally at 2 Ohms or 4 Ohms. A single 8 ohm cab is going to be pretty lacking.

Although I would probably be looking at the Reidmar 750 nowadays.

[Dood]

1 hour ago, thodrik said:

 

The Ashdown is a good head too. In fact the Ashdown could deliver far more low sub bass than the EBS heads like the HD350 and TD650, which are designed to not really produce much frequencies below 35hz as there's a LPF that kicks in at around this frequency. However, that is actually a great feature in a live setting as it means you never get a boomy, muddy sound.
 

I've just edited your post slightly. 1. I am not sure if Ashdown use a LPF on any of their heads. 2. the HD360 and TD660 heads had their LPF's lowered slightly and the EQ centres changed.  3. the bass control on the EBS is still shelving, so despite being centred at 100hz (for the TD650 I think?) you're still getting boost far below that too. 

[Dood]

The TD650 was in my all time top 5(-ish) amplifiers for many, many years - 20 or more, only to be recently replaced by the 802. 

[thodrik]

37 minutes ago, Dood said:

I've just edited your post slightly. 1. I am not sure if Ashdown use a LPF on any of their heads. 2. the HD360 and TD660 heads had their LPF's lowered slightly and the EQ centres changed.  3. the bass control on the EBS is still shelving, so despite being centred at 100hz (for the TD650 I think?) you're still getting boost far below that too. 

Thanks, I don’t really do nuances well when I’m quickly posting when sitting in my car waiting for the condensation to clear from my car windscreen before I drive home from work!

Edited October 28, 2020 by thodrik

[bassfan]

3 minutes ago, Dood said:

The TD650 was in my all time top 5(-ish) amplifiers for many, many years - 20 or more, only to be recently replaced by the 802. 

At the risk of derailing slightly. What’s the top 5 now? 

[Dood]

Just now, thodrik said:

Thanks, I don’t really do nuances well, when I’m quickly posting when sitting in my car waiting for the condensation to clear from my car windscreen before I drive home from work!

Hey, it's all cool! I hope it didn't sound like I was nit-picking or anything! Great post actually, lots of super useful info' and I agree, the EBS heads are very good indeed. The EBS Classic (II) Preamplifier was the first EBS piece of kit that had me hooked, a seriously good rack unit.

[Dood]

7 minutes ago, bassfan said:

At the risk of derailing slightly. What’s the top 5 now? 

Heads only, in no particular order (because you can't compare them to each other), Bergantino B|Amp, EBS 802, Ampeg SVT 2, EA iAmp Classic, Marshall DBS 7400. The Berg' is my absolute number 1 though, it is a superb sounding piece of kit.

I've decided to add some worthy contenders: Reidmar 750 is excellent, as is Genzler's Magellan 800. Also the GR Bass Dual 800, that is a beast of an amp. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Dood

[ern500evo]

1 hour ago, EBS_freak said:

The HD350 blue stripe, white lettering is my fave amp from EBS of the ones mentioned. Id take that over the Fafner or the TD650 - although you will want to run it ideally at 2 Ohms or 4 Ohms. A single 8 ohm cab is going to be pretty lacking.

Although I would probably be looking at the Reidmar 750 nowadays.

Any reason for that Russ, apart from the form factor? The HD is quite a light heads so is it sonically that you’d be looking at the Reidmar? 

[ern500evo]

@thodrik so the grey stripe Fafner is best avoided? 

[LukeFRC]

if you're looking for bang for buck... see if @warwickhunt still has the Hughes and Kettner Bassbase 600 he was selling a while back. I would throw that in there as an option, not as sexy and desirable as EBS but I like the H&K sound. (I've got the QT600)

[thodrik]

25 minutes ago, ern500evo said:

@thodrik so the grey stripe Fafner is best avoided? 

I wouldn’t say avoided, just more that it has potential issues that the later models don’t generally have. I’m sure lots of players have grey stripe ones that work perfectly.

[warwickhunt]

Cheers Luke.  I'd certainly put the H&K Bassbase 600 up against the best of EBS... at 50% of the price (selling mine for £225 inc case - not breaking rules as it is for sale on the forum)! 

 

[EBS_freak]

30 minutes ago, ern500evo said:

Any reason for that Russ, apart from the form factor? The HD is quite a light heads so is it sonically that you’d be looking at the Reidmar? 

Sonically, there's very little in it. Especially on a gig. Primarily my choice would be down to there being more in the power department for your particular choice of cab and being newer, the Reidmar is less likely to have developed scratchy pots and the like (if the HD350 amp hasn't been looked after nicely).

[ern500evo]

11 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Sonically, there's very little in it. Especially on a gig. Primarily my choice would be down to there being more in the power department for your particular choice of cab and being newer, the Reidmar is less likely to have developed scratchy pots and the like (if the HD350 amp hasn't been looked after nicely).

That’s a very good point actually. I’ve never played through a Reidmar. But then, if if I’m still gonna be class D, would I be just as well keeping the Darkglass! Confusion! 

[ern500evo]

19 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

Cheers Luke.  I'd certainly put the H&K Bassbase 600 up against the best of EBS... at 50% of the price (selling mine for £225 inc case - not breaking rules as it is for sale on the forum)! 

 

I’ve never actually looked at a H&K head to be honest! 

[warwickhunt]

1 minute ago, ern500evo said:

I’ve never actually looked at a H&K head to be honest! 

Don't confuse it with H&Kers later ranges, the Bassbase range is up there with the best... but it isn't class D, so not 'fashionable'!  

Vids on youtube and reviews on the web.  

[EBS_freak]

23 hours ago, ern500evo said:

That’s a very good point actually. I’ve never played through a Reidmar. But then, if if I’m still gonna be class D, would I be just as well keeping the Darkglass! Confusion! 

The Darkglass and EBS are like - apples vs orange

Edited October 29, 2020 by EBS_freak

[Cuzzie]

No personal experience directly with the line, but the concept and listenings I have done, I would squarely go for the Fafner II as my choice of amp out of the range, it looks an absolute beast