Vintage Fenders

[briansbrew]

9 hours ago, ossyrocks said:

Blimey.

 

Now I want to see if it has been stamped at all.

Here you go

[Belka]

25 minutes ago, briansbrew said:

Here you go

I think whoever did that has moved beyond the realm of supplying a semi-vintage bass at a more affordable price into out and out fakery, no matter what they say. Luckily they don't really know what they're doing - I may be wrong but I don't think any '60s necks had employee name stamps on them - that was a '70s thing.

[Mrbigstuff]

10 minutes ago, Belka said:

I think whoever did that has moved beyond the realm of supplying a semi-vintage bass at a more affordable price into out and out fakery, no matter what they say. Luckily they don't really know what they're doing - I may be wrong but I don't think any '60s necks had employee name stamps on them - that was a '70s thing.

Not sure myself, but doesn’t look like the usual J Torres stamp.

[briansbrew]

Just now, Mrbigstuff said:

Not sure myself, but doesn’t look like the usual J Torres stamp.

Its not, just a copy....

[Beedster]

7 hours ago, Belka said:

I think whoever did that has moved beyond the realm of supplying a semi-vintage bass at a more affordable price into out and out fakery, no matter what they say. Luckily they don't really know what they're doing - I may be wrong but I don't think any '60s necks had employee name stamps on them - that was a '70s thing.

Agree 100%, I think we need to know who this is, whether they know what they’re doing or not in terms of the mechanics, they certainly know what they’re doing in terms of the potential for current or future fraud

[Beedster]

… this is why Fender stamp their reissues as such and very clearly so 

[Bagman]

I have a 71 Jazz 

the neck stamp is basically worn off 

 

it sort of looked the above stamp 

day month year neck type

[walshy]

43 minutes ago, Beedster said:

Agree 100%, I think we need to know who this is, whether they know what they’re doing or not in terms of the mechanics, they certainly know what they’re doing in terms of the potential for current or future fraud

Yep it certainly muddies the waters somewhat and with even more refinement on their part would catch a lot of people out I’m sure. Bad form tbh even if they’re just doing it as an ‘exercise’

[SurroundedByManatees]

Agreed. It's just a matter of time before this neck (and maybe whole bass) is listed as being real.

[Reggaebass]

Wow someone has gone through a lot of work to do that, it’s not an exercise it’s a good attempt at faking, it could easily fool someone, not good in my opinion, makes me question how many others are out there 

[Reggaebass]

9 hours ago, briansbrew said:

Here you go

Thanks for showing this Brian 

[Beedster]

9 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

Wow someone has gone through a lot of work to do that, it’s not an exercise it’s a good attempt at faking, it could easily fool someone, not good in my opinion, makes me question how many others are out there 

 

...where did I hear the estimate that there are three times as many vintage Gibson guitars in circulation as were actually made? Probably an urban myth but it would be naive inb the extreme to think that given the dollars involved, and unlike the art world (e.g., a fake Mona Lisa), the deniability, that there aren't more than a few people making and selling fake passed off as legit

[Alanko]

Gibson built approximately 1,700 sunburst Les Pauls between 1958 and 1960, of which only 2,500 are accounted for.

[Bagman]

16 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

Wow someone has gone through a lot of work to do that, it’s not an exercise it’s a good attempt at faking, it could easily fool someone, not good in my opinion, makes me question how many others are out there 

you can write a "stamp" in via pencil

[Beedster]

5 minutes ago, Alanko said:

Gibson built approximately 1,700 sunburst Les Pauls between 1958 and 1960, of which only 2,500 are accounted for.

Made my day, thanks @Alanko 👍

[Reggaebass]

7 minutes ago, Bagman said:

you can write a "stamp" in via pencil

Yeah t he early 60s ones were pencil but later they were ink stamped 

[Alanko]

Just now, Bagman said:

you can write a "stamp" in via pencil

We've been training more competent fakers courtesy of twenty years of detailed documentation online. If you are that invested in faking Fenders, you can get high res shots of every pencil mark, scrunched up piece of masking tape, tooling mark and router deviation in an old Fender. Plus, it is tricky to state Fender always did X or never did Y. Some grainy black and white photo surfaces periodically of some bizarre factory special in the hands of a local country artist. Fender never put binding on Strat necks, apart from when they did!
 

I saw a '50s Strat on Facebook yesterday in an unusual metallic green colour. Apparently it was all original as the 'worm' routing, pin holes etc were all intact. The owner traced the colour back to one car manufacturer's catalog and it was a dead-on match. Funny that! 
 

How many solid-colour, immaculate custom finish Fenders are going to keep crawling out from under beds and out of closets? And they all have the right pin holes, router chew marks, stamps, 'paint stick' in the neck pocket. Amazingly. Does it make them real?
 

I saw a guitar builder on Instagram rejoice because they had uncovered a stash of unused 1950s car paint. Loosen it off with fresh nitro and you have ready to spray period correct finishes. Why is that such a big deal?

 

Conversely, look at the nonsense passed of as vintage in the 1970s. Dick Knight used re-top Les Pauls and pass them off as bursts. Famous guitarists bought these, probably while slightly under the influence in dark dressing rooms. John Entwistle also bought a pile of weird fake Gibson basses, supposedly from Gibson's skunkworks division. 

[Reggaebass]

14 minutes ago, Bagman said:

you can write a "stamp" in via pencil

Scary stuff really isn’t it , we’re talking about a lot of money here these days, it’s why I tend to stick mainly with reputable sellers 

[Bagman]

4 minutes ago, Alanko said:

We've been training more competent fakers courtesy of twenty years of detailed documentation online. If you are that invested in faking Fenders, you can get high res shots of every pencil mark, scrunched up piece of masking tape, tooling mark and router deviation in an old Fender. Plus, it is tricky to state Fender always did X or never did Y. Some grainy black and white photo surfaces periodically of some bizarre factory special in the hands of a local country artist. Fender never put binding on Strat necks, apart from when they did!
 

I saw a '50s Strat on Facebook yesterday in an unusual metallic green colour. Apparently it was all original as the 'worm' routing, pin holes etc were all intact. The owner traced the colour back to one car manufacturer's catalog and it was a dead-on match. Funny that! 
 

How many solid-colour, immaculate custom finish Fenders are going to keep crawling out from under beds and out of closets? And they all have the right pin holes, router chew marks, stamps, 'paint stick' in the neck pocket. Amazingly. Does it make them real?
 

I saw a guitar builder on Instagram rejoice because they had uncovered a stash of unused 1950s car paint. Loosen it off with fresh nitro and you have ready to spray period correct finishes. Why is that such a big deal?

 

Conversely, look at the nonsense passed of as vintage in the 1970s. Dick Knight used re-top Les Pauls and pass them off as bursts. Famous guitarists bought these, probably while slightly under the influence in dark dressing rooms. John Entwistle also bought a pile of weird fake Gibson basses, supposedly from Gibson's skunkworks division. 

if my 71 is fake it's still a nice instrument 

[Bagman]

2 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

Scary stuff really isn’t it , we’re talking about a lot of money here these days, it’s why I tend to stick mainly with reputable sellers 

my 71 i bought it was gutted for active electronics never disclosed and I was to young to check (1994)

the pick ups didn't match the neck stamp 

the pots were refit

 

If you are a musician I think buy what you like to play 

 

 

 

 

[Alanko]

6 minutes ago, Bagman said:

my 71 i bought it was gutted for active electronics never disclosed and I was to young to check (1994)

the pick ups didn't match the neck stamp 

the pots were refit

 

If you are a musician I think buy what you like to play 

 

 

 

 

I would trust a player-grade lightly modded bass like yours over a mint-grade 1971 with zero history to it, to be honest. 

[Sparky Mark]

I'm not quite as sceptical about this bass. I like to refer to Geddy's Big Beautiful Book of Bass as a starting point on these occasions. There are examples of similar tortoishell around 65/66 in there, but I agree it could be a later replacement.

 

The machine head design is the part I cannot find examples of around that date, but their condition/finish looks much more authentic than modern Road Worn parts.

Photos of pots/wiring/cavity/pickup assemblies/windings and neck pocket are also essential evidence. The neck plate is correct for the neck date. Torres started with Fender early to mid 60s, so I'd expect his stamp to be nice and defined after only 3 or 4 years use. The Torres stamp looks in line with many other examples found via online searches.

 

The neck decal looks correct to me for a 65 to 69 according to The Fender Bass (Black and Molinaro). Other than the machines, the neck looks genuine to me. I'd ask the Talkbass community about the machines in particular, as there's a lot of knowledge on there too. I'd be surprised if someone trying to create a fake of this quality cocked up by using the wrong machines.

 

The body also looks correct to me. More photos as above are required, but I'm leaning more towards genuine overall. 

 

"What's the price?" is also relevant for a CBS Fender. Why bother faking a CBS era bass, when pre CBS commands much higher prices?

[wateroftyne]

3 minutes ago, Sparky Mark said:

I'm not quite as sceptical about this bass. I like to refer to Geddy's Big Beautiful Book of Bass as a starting point on these occasions. There are examples of similar tortoishell around 65/66 in there, but I agree it could be a later replacement.

 

The machine head design is the part I cannot find examples of around that date, but their condition/finish looks much more authentic than modern Road Worn parts.

Photos of pots/wiring/cavity/pickup assemblies/windings and neck pocket are also essential evidence. The neck plate is correct for the neck date. Torres started with Fender early to mid 60s, so I'd expect his stamp to be nice and defined after only 3 or 4 years use. The Torres stamp looks in line with many other examples found via online searches.

 

The neck decal looks correct to me for a 65 to 69 according to The Fender Bass (Black and Molinaro). Other than the machines, the neck looks genuine to me. I'd ask the Talkbass community about the machines in particular, as there's a lot of knowledge on there too. I'd be surprised if someone trying to create a fake of this quality cocked up by using the wrong machines.

 

The body also looks correct to me. More photos as above are required, but I'm leaning more towards genuine overall. 

 

"What's the price?" is also relevant for a CBS Fender. Why bother faking a CBS era bass, when pre CBS commands much higher prices?

We already know it’s a fake.

[Sparky Mark]

6 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

We already know it’s a fake.

Apologies, I didn't see that? Where's that confirmed please? Thanks 

[Beedster]

Confirmed here....

 

On 02/05/2025 at 10:16, briansbrew said:

This is a deliberate attempt to make a 70's Jazz bass to look Vintage at a fraction of the cost, he is not trying to sell it as a Vintage Jazz but offering it to anyone not in a position to afford the real deal but want to have a bass close to a Vintage looking one

But if you had never seen a Vintage bass before or what to look out for then you could easily be fooled...

 

 

 

 

Edited May 3 by Beedster