Vintage Fenders

[Beedster]

42 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

Isn’t it the same one that’s for sale on here 

 

Looks like it albeit a whole lot cheaper at BD?

 

 

The description at BD does no-one any favours

[Beedster]

6 minutes ago, Beedster said:

 

Looks like it albeit a whole lot cheaper at BD?

 

 

The description at BD does no-one any favours

 

...and a few discrepancies between the post on BC and BD's description - the originality of the body, the fingerboard material - guessing BD clarified some of the details hence lower price

[Beedster]

Still a bloody lovely looking instrument however 👍

[Burns-bass]

40 minutes ago, Beedster said:

Still a bloody lovely looking instrument however 👍

It is. I feel bad as I don’t want it to seem like I’m criticising the seller. It’s just that I can’t really tell what, if anything, is original.

 

It seems like it’s just half a neck. But maybe I’m wrong.

[Mrbigstuff]

8 hours ago, Burns-bass said:

It is. I feel bad as I don’t want it to seem like I’m criticising the seller. It’s just that I can’t really tell what, if anything, is original.

 

It seems like it’s just half a neck. But maybe I’m wrong.

It seems the seller and BD disagree on the originality of the body and as far as I know there’s no way to definitively date one, especially refinished? It wouldn’t surprise me if BD might be being vague on purpose to protect themselves.

[Beedster]

28 minutes ago, Mrbigstuff said:

It wouldn’t surprise me if BD might be being vague on purpose to protect themselves.

 

That's a good point 👍

[Beedster]

36 minutes ago, Mrbigstuff said:

It seems the seller and BD disagree on the originality of the body and as far as I know there’s no way to definitively date one, especially refinished? It wouldn’t surprise me if BD might be being vague on purpose to protect themselves.

 

 

....and which shows what a minefield this space can be, having experienced some very descriptions of vintage instruments when I was buying my '64 - all documented elsewhere on this site - it does make me wonder how many people out there have paid a lot of money for a now cherished vintage Fender that is simply not a vintage Fender, often because the (reputable) shop took the easy route and were less than rigorous in inspection and verification. In this case looks like bass Direct haven't taken the easy route. 

[ossyrocks]

3 minutes ago, Beedster said:

 

 

....and which shows what a minefield this space can be, having experienced some very descriptions of vintage instruments when I was buying my '64 - all documented elsewhere on this site - it does make me wonder how many people out there have paid a lot of money for a now cherished vintage Fender that is simply not a vintage Fender, often because the (reputable) shop took the easy route and were less than rigorous in inspection and verification. In this case looks like bass Direct haven't taken the easy route. 

 

The Harrisons and Music Ground have released many dubious and fake guitars into the wild over their long and illustrious careers.

[Burns-bass]

43 minutes ago, Beedster said:

 

 

....and which shows what a minefield this space can be, having experienced some very descriptions of vintage instruments when I was buying my '64 - all documented elsewhere on this site - it does make me wonder how many people out there have paid a lot of money for a now cherished vintage Fender that is simply not a vintage Fender, often because the (reputable) shop took the easy route and were less than rigorous in inspection and verification. In this case looks like bass Direct haven't taken the easy route. 

I agree.

 

So many guitars also wood with some tenuous BS connection to a “star” as well.

 

It’s a very odd marketplace indeed. 

[Beedster]

4 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

I agree.

 

So many guitars also wood with some tenuous BS connection to a “star” as well.

 

It’s a very odd marketplace indeed. 

 

It's antiques, and if you think second hand car dealers have some dodgy practices, you should look into the antiques world, in which the seller is often able to capitalise on the buyer's strong emotional need for the item to be authentic, as well as the fact that - given antique purchases are as much about bragging rights as owning a piece of history - buyer's sometimes don't care about authenticity if they are able to pass it off as authentic.....

 

And if you think the antiques market is bad, wait until you get into the religious artefacts market, how many fingers can one saint have had, perhaps their saintly powers allowed them to keep growing new ones.....?

[SurroundedByManatees]

Yes it's (probably) a set of '62 pickups,  some hardware and half a neck. Proudly listed as a 1962 Fender.

 

Totally ridiculous to list it like that imo.

 

 

[SurroundedByManatees]

1 hour ago, Mrbigstuff said:

It seems the seller and BD disagree on the originality of the body and as far as I know there’s no way to definitively date one, especially refinished? It wouldn’t surprise me if BD might be being vague on purpose to protect themselves.

It's possible to put a refin body in a time frame by marks in the neck pocket or pickup cavities, and the dowel/pin holes that should be in the right place. The dowel holes on my refin are visible through the finish and otherwise a blacklight would point them out.

Edited May 1 by SurroundedByManatees

[Mrbigstuff]

22 minutes ago, SurroundedByManatees said:

It's possible to put a refin body in a time frame by marks in the neck pocket or pickup cavities, and the dowel/pin holes that should be in the right place. The dowel holes on my refin are visible through the finish and otherwise a blacklight would point them out.

Out of curiosity what are the expected marks in a pickup cavity for a 60’s Fender? 

[Burns-bass]

53 minutes ago, Beedster said:

 

It's antiques, and if you think second hand car dealers have some dodgy practices, you should look into the antiques world, in which the seller is often able to capitalise on the buyer's strong emotional need for the item to be authentic, as well as the fact that - given antique purchases are as much about bragging rights as owning a piece of history - buyer's sometimes don't care about authenticity if they are able to pass it off as authentic.....

 

And if you think the antiques market is bad, wait until you get into the religious artefacts market, how many fingers can one saint have had, perhaps their saintly powers allowed them to keep growing new ones.....?

 

I went inter-railing twenty odd years ago and one of our favourite things to do in Eastern Europe was to learn about the local saints and martyrs, and figure out what relics they had at the church (and hopefully get to see them). 

 

It wasn't a debauched trip, but that's the life I lead.

[Beedster]

35 minutes ago, SurroundedByManatees said:

Yes it's (probably) a set of '62 pickups,  some hardware and half a neck. Proudly listed as a 1962 Fender.

 

Totally ridiculous to list it like that imo.

 

 

 

The more I look at BD's description.....

 

1962 Fender Precision Bass for sale, this bass plays beautifully but is made up of a few different parts.

Replacement alder body, originally had a bridge pickup too (filled and refinished in Sherwood Green)

1962 Fender neck, had an ebony fretless fingerboard fitted at some point, but now wears a rosewood fingerboard, there is evidence of the fretless side dots on the neck now.

Non original pots, non original pickguard.

 

The more I wonder how they can possibly be asking £4.5k.

 

1. Replacement alder body, I assume if it was vintage Fender they'd say so, in which case we're talking a few hundred quid max

2. Had an ebony fretless fingerboard fitted is only relevant if some of that fingerboard is still in place underneath (I assume) the reosewood, that renders the neck value very low also. 

3. Nor original pots and pickguard, again a few quid. 

 

It's odd that they don't make any mention of PUP originality which would be a factor, as well as tuners. But even if everything other than 1-3 were original, am I being too harsh in suggesting that it's a £1500 instrument tops, and that's in part because it looks bloody lovely? 

[Burns-bass]

4 minutes ago, Beedster said:

 

The more I look at BD's description.....

 

1962 Fender Precision Bass for sale, this bass plays beautifully but is made up of a few different parts.

Replacement alder body, originally had a bridge pickup too (filled and refinished in Sherwood Green)

1962 Fender neck, had an ebony fretless fingerboard fitted at some point, but now wears a rosewood fingerboard, there is evidence of the fretless side dots on the neck now.

Non original pots, non original pickguard.

 

The more I wonder how they can possibly be asking £4.5k.

 

1. Replacement alder body, I assume if it was vintage Fender they'd say so, in which case we're talking a few hundred quid max

2. Had an ebony fretless fingerboard fitted is only relevant if some of that fingerboard is still in place underneath (I assume) the reosewood, that renders the neck value very low also. 

3. Nor original pots and pickguard, again a few quid. 

 

It's odd that they don't make any mention of PUP originality which would be a factor, as well as tuners. But even if everything other than 1-3 were original, am I being too harsh in suggesting that it's a £1500 instrument tops, and that's in part because it looks bloody lovely? 

 

It's also had a really nasty looking truss rod job as well.

[rwillett]

58 minutes ago, Beedster said:

And if you think the antiques market is bad, wait until you get into the religious artefacts market, how many fingers can one saint have had, perhaps their saintly powers allowed them to keep growing new ones.....?

 

And if every splinter that came from the cross was collected, it would be bigger than the Amazon rain forest. Strange how some religions venerate this sort of thing.

 

Mind you I have circa 1.5M old cigarette and trade cards my dad and I collected over 25 years, so I'm the last person who can criticise this sort of thing. In my defence, I do not think they have magical or mystical powers though...

[Woodinblack]

57 minutes ago, SurroundedByManatees said:

It's possible to put a refin body in a time frame by marks in the neck pocket or pickup cavities, and the dowel/pin holes that should be in the right place.

 

And by the same token, having the knowledge of where they should be it is quite simple to recreate them in the right place, and as the art of doing so takes a £60 body to a £3000 body, quite an incentive to do so.

Specially with the raretly of pre-cbs fenders, I am sure by now we are down to only about 3 times what they made!

[LukeFRC]

2 hours ago, Beedster said:

 

 

....and which shows what a minefield this space can be, having experienced some very descriptions of vintage instruments when I was buying my '64 - all documented elsewhere on this site - it does make me wonder how many people out there have paid a lot of money for a now cherished vintage Fender that is simply not a vintage Fender, often because the (reputable) shop took the easy route and were less than rigorous in inspection and verification. In this case looks like bass Direct haven't taken the easy route. 

even though I lurk in this thread - as lets face it vintage instruments look great sometimes - I'm really glad you, and a few others warned me away from the whole minefield when I was thinking of getting a P bass. 
The fact the refinished £4k '64 I was looking at popped up with another seller 6 months later as all original £17k says a lot... 

[Beedster]

1 minute ago, Woodinblack said:

 

And by the same token, having the knowledge of where they should be it is quite simple to recreate them in the right place, and as the art of doing so takes a £60 body to a £3000 body, quite an incentive to do so.

Specially with the raretly of pre-cbs fenders, I am sure by now we are down to only about 3 times what they made!

 

Yep, a good sense of smell is a useful trait when inspecting a pre-CBS, especially if it's in acase, I've yet to play one that didn't have something of the whiff of 60 years of sweat, alcohol, nicotine, and no doubt a few other molecules......  

[Mrbigstuff]

What’s everyone’s thoughts on this one? I’m not sure about either finish or P/G. I thought factory black would have come with a white/ mint guard and only sunburst or white would have tort…

https://thebassgallery.com/collections/bass-new-arrival/products/fender-p-63

 

too beaten up for my taste and the sticker residue/ mark would really annoy me.

[Beedster]

7 minutes ago, Mrbigstuff said:

What’s everyone’s thoughts on this one? I’m not sure about either finish or P/G. I thought factory black would have come with a white/ mint guard and only sunburst or white would have tort…

https://thebassgallery.com/collections/bass-new-arrival/products/fender-p-63

 

too beaten up for my taste and the sticker residue/ mark would really annoy me.

 

I wish I had the length of time required to read The Gallery's extensive descriptions........ 🤔

[Alanko]

28 minutes ago, Mrbigstuff said:

What’s everyone’s thoughts on this one? I’m not sure about either finish or P/G. I thought factory black would have come with a white/ mint guard and only sunburst or white would have tort…

https://thebassgallery.com/collections/bass-new-arrival/products/fender-p-63

 

too beaten up for my taste and the sticker residue/ mark would really annoy me.

Headstock seems a slightly unusual shape? Looks a bit thin to my eyes.

[Old Man Riva]

1 hour ago, Mrbigstuff said:

What’s everyone’s thoughts on this one? I’m not sure about either finish or P/G. I thought factory black would have come with a white/ mint guard and only sunburst or white would have tort…

https://thebassgallery.com/collections/bass-new-arrival/products/fender-p-63

 

too beaten up for my taste and the sticker residue/ mark would really annoy me.

Even though it doesn’t say it’s a Refin in the description, based on The Gallery’s previous/recent prices for similar pre-CBS refinished Precisions, I think it’s safe to say it is… 

[Sparky Mark]

15 minutes ago, Old Man Riva said:

Even though it doesn’t say it’s a Refin in the description, based on The Gallery’s previous/recent prices for similar pre-CBS refinished Precisions, I think it’s safe to say it is… 

Agreed, most likely a refinished sunburst.