KennysFord Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Hey all. I'm currently learning about 15 songs for a new covers band.In the other band i'm in i play acoustic guitar so it's just a matter of learning the chord sequence.Do you guys learn the chord sequence as well,learn the bass parts from the original recording and put your own spin on it or just learn the frets ??? One song in particular that we're doing,Donny Hathaway's version of What's going on prompted this question.Whenever I jam along to this song at home(i've 95% got it and quite proud of me self for it btw)it's more of a learning the line rather than the chords but on the Bluesier one's we do it's the opposite.Is there a definitive way to do it or just do whatever works. Thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenochrome Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I use a bit of everything! I have the tracks playing on MP3 whilst I'm at work. I sometimes look at chord charts, sometimes glance at the TAB [which is always wrong at some point in the song]. I also have my own system of charting the song out for bass. I also watch videos to check I'm playing sections in the right position and starting/finishing slides in the right place etc. It's quite an organic process though - if we decide to do a new song in practice with not much notice I'll just get hold of the correct chords and listen to a track a few times to get the basic 'shape' of the thing right, then add all the detail later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Not really the best person to ask, but when I had to learn a set of songs for my first gig I used a combination of my Tascam bass trainer and tabs lifted off the internet. I then put my interpretation of it into Guitar Pro and learned that. Yeah, I just learned it by frets/patterns. No idea to this day about keys or even what notes I was playing. Don't worry if you have to simplify things a little. You don't have to be note perfect with respect to the original recording, in fact it's probably detrimental to the performance - you're not a robot and you'll just end up stressing more about mistakes that way. Basically, whatever works is about right. Playing (most of) the right notes at the right time is the aim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I write out a chart including chords and dots for groove definition and specific breaks etc. If I have time, I use Sibelius. If not I use a beer mat with the picture torn off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='410772' date='Feb 16 2009, 09:43 AM']I write out a chart including chords and dots for groove definition and specific breaks etc. If I have time, I use Sibelius. If not I use a beer mat with the picture torn off.[/quote] Beermat charts..yeah..been there...if only to have written "MIDDLE 8 is in C" in big biro! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 If it's a straight copy of each song then listen to the song & it's arrangement & break it down & pop onto web & get the chord arrangement (chordie or 911 tabs, etc). Learn the original bassline & then take your own spin on it if you want. If it's not a straight copy then get the rest of the band, find out the arrangement & chords used & make sh!t up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenochrome Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 IME I've found playing the bass part fairly accurately compared to the original does help my other band members, and when they play/sing fairly close to the original, the audience usually really goes for our versions. We used to just play 'our versions' of the songs, chopping out bits we didn't like, shortening intros/endings etc. In the past few months we've played much more accurate versions. We sound better and our singer has found our cues better for her phrasing etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I load up everything in MP3 format onto a CD which I play in the car all the time, and do the same with an ipod. I play along with the track using a Korg PX4 putting the track and bass into headphones. I use 'amazing slowdowner' if there's a twiddly bit my ears just can't catch. I'm awful at improvisation so I just copy lines by rote. My new years resolution is to re-learn notation and have some lessons. That's just what works for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayfan Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 1. Get the chord chart (or tab) the guitarist is working from (so we're in the same key at least...he has a habit of changing them and learning strange versions) 2. Look at the chords at home with the song to learn the overall structure 3. Learn the signature riffs in the song 4. Try it out at rehearsal and simplify/change if it doesn't work We're a three piece and sometimes the original bass lines don't work (esp during guitar solos) so I have to simplify them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Having just gone through this process for the very first time as I may be joining a real covers band (my previous bands have all be originals and any covers were built up from the vocal melody only). I load up the songs into Logic (or any other system that would let me accurately loop sections) and listen and play along. Two things I've learnt. Learning the bass line EXACTLY as it is on the original recording may be pointless if the other instruments haven't done the same (as Homer also discovered in his recent new band gig report) so make sure you know what the chords are so you can busk a simplified version if necessary. Secondly if you can work out exactly what's going on in the bass line from the original recording (normally because there's to many instruments occupying the same sonic space), either it won't matter - just play something that fits, or it'll become obvious when you get to rehearsal with the band as you'll need to fill in the now missing notes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cytania Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 (edited) 1) Work through chord sequence playing simple. Does it sound right? May be all that's need for ballads. 2) Something lacking? Do a search of the net for bass tabs. Beware there are some very wrong headed tabs around. 3) Bass tabs absent or unconvincing? Search further and see what lead guitar lines are. May give a few clues. 4) Play along to the record. At which points does simple root progressions fail to convince. Are there signature bass parts or riffs you need? 5) Create your own bassline. Try root-fifths root-sevenths root octaves type lines to see what's close. Let your mind drift into lines you do know that feel similar. 6) Play the basic roots but try out alternate note positions to give 'voice' changes. So open E string stuff for growly bits and then 5th/7th fret runs from E for tighter bits. Key thing is to remember you are trying to make a rythmic groove with the bass drum beat. A basic root note that chimes properly with the drummer's pattern is worth ten fancy lines that are timed wrong. I have myself played the same one G note thoughout 99% of a song and no one noticed (not very swinging but it wasn't that kind of song). Edited February 16, 2009 by cytania Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peted Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 (edited) I've had to learn nearly 30 songs for my tribute act, and it has been tough work (and I'm still not there months later)! I've burnt a couple of CDs to listen to in my car to get familiar with the music. Then I'll try to find a good 30 minute minimum session where I can hook myself up to my Tascam Bass Trainer and not be interrupted. My intention is always to listen to each song all the way through at least once before I start plucking away, but my fingers get a little impatient and I'm usually at least trying to find the key/root notes by the end of the song. I'm happy to have a song 90% faithful to the studio recorded version. I'll definitely try to get the basic parts exact, and find a similar 'feel' to any little runs and licks. If there's a run which stands out in the tune then I'll use the 'tempo' and 'loop' features of the Tascam to try to get the part exact (can take ages, and I have a habit of forgetting the rest of the song at that point ). I've tried internet tabs and they are often very wrong. I find that I much prefer to trust my own judgement, and hope that my band will point out anything I play drastically wrong Edited February 16, 2009 by peted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennysFord Posted February 16, 2009 Author Share Posted February 16, 2009 Wow, What a response,well responses.Thanks to everyone !! I guess i'm on the right lines then,no pun intended and it was Homer's thread that got me to thinking actually.I'm not far off then in what i'm doing. Cheers all,i can relax a wee bit now then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basswesty Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Listen listen and listen then listen some more through a good pair of cans. You'll be amazed at things you might have missed... They might be small but they might be really important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Just a wee thought, 90% of professional bands don't play their own songs the same live as what they recorded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Oh, I forgot to mention something I do - sometimes I take a song and load it into Audacity. I then bass boost it followed by a low pass filter filtering everything above 200Hz with something like 12dB attenuation (you might need to experiment with the attenuation level). Cuts out most singing and percussion and all you're left with is bass and the lowest end of the range of guitars. Handy if you can't make something out because the other instruments are getting in the way. Headphones is essential when listening to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesk86 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 The only thing that helped me was watching either a guitarist or bassist play the song first!!! I seem to be abel to remember finger postions and note changes very well once I've seen someone else play it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus27 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I just use my ears and try to learn it exactly like the original. I listen to the song for a few days to get a feel for what the bass line is doing and work it out in my head. I kind of turn the bass line into the melody so for a few days I am walking around singing the bass line. I then sit down with the bass and play the CD and put down what I have in my head and change any bits that are wrong. I'll then play along for a few days to get it really tight. Once I think I have it sussed with the bass line locked into my head, I'll then play along with the bass guitar volume on low of off and if any bits are wrong, it will stand out like a sore thumb as my head and hands won't match whats playing on the CD. I then leave it a day or so, and come back and play along again to make sure everything is right. I do this because its good to see how well my muscle memory has worked, hopefully perfectly as my brain and hands should remember the song but also sometimes things that you have not noticed before on the track tend to jump out, usually followed by me going, oh my god, thats what he was playing on that bit, how did I get that bit so wrong. Depending on the song, this whole process can take an evening or two or a couple of weeks depending on how hard the bass line is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leonshelley01 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I, like others, listen to the song quite heavily to learn the structure first. Then I get the tab for it in the Guitar Pro format with drums, guitars, keyboards etc as well as the bass. Using POD farm I dial in an appropriate bass tone on the PC and play along with the Guitar Pro having muted the bass. If necessary, I slow down the tempo at first then build up to "full speed", breaking the song down section by section. Quite often at this point I may start imposing my "style" (or lack of ability!) in order to suit any arrangement changes necessary due to the bands setup or boredom by having to play contant eighth-note root notes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapillonIrl Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 [quote name='basswesty' post='411682' date='Feb 17 2009, 07:45 AM']Listen listen and listen then listen some more through a good pair of cans. You'll be amazed at things you might have missed... They might be small but they might be really important. [/quote] +1 I like to run my Mp3 player and my bass into a small mixer, and use the best cans I have (Senn HD600). Usually no need for drastic eq'ing once you can hear in enough detail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickbass Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 How closely you follow the original recording can depend on how closely the band is trying to imitate the original. On some tunes I've been allowed a free hand (provided I follow the harmony), and in other cases I've stuck closely to the original line (assuming I'm able to play it!). I think you should always aim to play the best bass line for the song as it's played by your band (which may be quite different from any existing recordings). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Splayer Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 i play the correct notes, in the correct order, at the correct tempo, using the correct technique! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M4L666 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Try and learn from CD. I'm very accurate as a riff just several notes out of place f*cks up the feel of the song. Like at the moment I'm learning Like Callisto To A Star In Heaven by Trivium. I learnt the guitar part first, as the bass mainly doubles it. Then I moved to bass and simplified the simpler bits, and added in any bass-specific fills or runs (of which there where none this song ). So by ear/ a little tab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 [quote name='cytania' post='410890' date='Feb 16 2009, 11:24 AM']I have myself played the same one G note thoughout 99% of a song and no one noticed (not very swinging but it wasn't that kind of song).[/quote] NICE... I tend to listen a few times to get the overall structure, Then work out the finer points. Usually on headphones so i can really hear my Bass better against the original. Other times i think .FCUK it, i have played it before at some point, I will just busk it at the gig. And thats usually what the other guys have thought and done. Better still if it is gig with charts, i will just sight read it. Garru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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