thinman Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 How do most of you find using deputies works? Do the people they dep for object? I'm a bit disappointed with a couple of people in our band in that they won't support the idea of people covering for them when they're not available. We're a 7 piece all with kids and families so the chances of someone not being about are quite high. Consequently we've had to turn down a few nice opportunities. Funnily enough the two that object most are the least available two. I'm quite happy with the idea that we aim to not book stuff when we know someone's away but sometimes we're offered good stuff on dates outside of our control. If it was me not being unavailable I wouldn't feel that I could demand the rest turn something down but they obviously feel that they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonybassplayer Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 This is a subject that crops up on a regular basis with my main band as we are a six piece pub/function band. Perhaps I am a little over the top about it but I am a divorced, part time dad with a stressful job and little spare money so playing a nice wedding gig on a Saturday ticks all the boxes for me ( great de-stresser, social night out, earn a few quid and play great dance music ) so when we are " not available" I get a bit narked about it. Several members of the band like long summer hols ( teachers ) and are not keen on much during the lead up to and during xmas so as you can imagine this frustrates me immensely. We dep our sax player on a regular basis ( he is one of the teachers ) we have depped our keyboardist a few times with a friend of the band ( although our regular keys player is very good at being available ) we have a few very good drummers available, I was depped once when i was away on business ( I was gutted ) and we have depped the guitarist once but never the singer ( she is excellent and very hard to replace ) Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_the_bassist Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 My band's the same...I'm the youngest by about 12yrs, and all the others are high-flying managers/CEOs/MDs etc etc with wife&2.4, and we've had to cancel many gigs cos one or more members can't make it. I think gettin some guys specced up to dep for (or gettin some decent cheat sheets sorted out for) each member would be a good idea, and the drummer is onboard, but the other guys aren't up for it. Personally, I think that its a case that they're insecure about their position, and are scared that they'll be asked not to come back...and in some cases I think this would be a good thing (we don't call our lead guitarist Mini-Hitler because of his easy-goin attitude and charmin personality!) It's an awkward one, and one that ain't gonna change till I fix up my own band and make it stipulated in the band agreement! lol! btw, if you ever need a bassist to dep for you, gimme a call Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonybassplayer Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 At one point we never depped anybody fearing that we would lose that special ingredient but the availability factor of everyone went up dramatically when we realised that it was possible to do it and still put on a good show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinman Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 I've had the "special ingredient" argument thrown at me, the notion that no-one would be good enough(!!) and I also suspect the insecurity element is significant too! I wouldn't dare suggest that anyone changes their domestic arrangements but intransigence about supporting a stand-in means we shut down for 4-5 weeks at a time sometimes! I feel a bit held to ransom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_the_bassist Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='tonybassplayer' post='405833' date='Feb 10 2009, 10:39 PM']At one point we never depped anybody fearing that we would lose that special ingredient but the availability factor of everyone went up dramatically when we realised that it was possible to do it and still put on a good show.[/quote] Bah! i bloody wish we had a je ne sais quoi, but I've quickly realized that my band is held together by me and Carl (the tubthumper) and have NO f***ing talent by themselves i wanna be in a f***in band with f***ing talented musicians who f***ing know how to play their instrument, and know what f***ing chord they;re playing and that every song doesn't need a f***ing 5min guitar solo, and doesn't need a f***ing Wah effect on EVERYTHING!! [/rant] tbh, if I managed to find some people who were able to and willing to dep for my band members, I'd just start a new band. It's official, I'm sick of it. bah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delberthot Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 If you play in a good band with talented members and have been playing for a long time then its never the same when someone deps for one of the members. I find myself looking over my shoulder making sure that the depee knows what is going on which detracts from my own enjoyment. My rock covers band minus the drummer have formed a wedding/functions band with a new drummer and keyboard player. I have made it clear since we first began talking about it that my long running wedding band takes priority and they are happy with that. When an instance occurs that i cannot make a gig then they are happy to get someone else to fill in for me. If it became a regular occurrence, I have let them know that they can repace me permanently. In the 12 years we have been together I have missed 2 gigs - for one of them, I was replaced by Allan Longmuir from the Bay City Rollers! I've played a couple of gigs sitting down after spraining my ankle and even played one with a surgical collar on after sustaining a whiplash in a car crash the same day. I think that if people are against getting deps then it is possibly due to their insecurity and what if the other person is better than they are? This can go 2 ways- for a band that gets on, has a good laugh and performs well together then reassuring the missing band member would help. If the band member being replaced is a sh*t, unreliable, whatever then let them sweat if out. You never know, it may give them the kick up the arse that they need to get on with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Are your deps good players? Are they professional and turn up on time knowing the numbers? If you choose wisely then it should not be a problem. I'm in several bands and do as many deps as I can to fill in the diary. I get to play a wide variety which I like, and once had to learn a whole evening of Led Zep. I did a proper job and now I'm their 1st call dep which is very good for the diary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinman Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 We've not found any deps because a couple of them won't accept the idea. I think it is an insecurity thing but I've tried to make it clear that it would only be for one-offs for dates over which w have no control and that deps would be no more than that - there really is no ulterior motive. Our drummer is away for 6-7 weeks every year on holidays so it also means we can't even practice during that time he's that fussy about it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Slightly off topic, we occasionally augment our quartet with sax and/or flugelhorn and its a real blast as they bring something extra to the mix. In the other band we have depped drummers before which is "interesting".... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 In the bands I play in we often use deps and most of the time they are bloody good musicians; it's often a treat for the guys and the person who is being depped accepts the situation readilly. But we always have what we call the 'A team' syndrome. The band never sounds as good as when we have all the regular members. As a bass player I earn a lot of my bread by depping - and here I intrude on the 'Is theory important?' thread. I can only do this by being a good-ish reader and it helps to have big ears, oh, and a telephone of course. Many of the bands I play with I've never met before but they usually ask me back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I dep and I've been depped. If you can't make the gig that's how it is. Get over it. These guys who are insecure about being depped probably don't like other men sleeping with their wives and girlfriends either - in case the dep has a better endowment. But, hey, a band is not a marriage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayfan Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 [quote name='thinman' post='405775' date='Feb 10 2009, 09:44 PM']Funnily enough the two that object most are the least available two.[/quote] I used to be in a band just like that! Current outfit are relaxed about deps and have used a bass one when I've been ill. They missed me thankfully! I think you've got to be realistic about it - if you're booking weddings and stuff like that, you really do need a plan B if someone goes sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casapete Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 [quote name='stingrayfan' post='407038' date='Feb 11 2009, 10:14 PM']I used to be in a band just like that! Current outfit are relaxed about deps and have used a bass one when I've been ill. They missed me thankfully! I think you've got to be realistic about it - if you're booking weddings and stuff like that, you really do need a plan B if someone goes sick.[/quote] Absolutely! In my 7 piece band,if we didnt work when someone was on holiday etc, we'd probably be out of action for over 3 months per annum! I'm very fortunate in having a great bass dep available-the band enjoy playing with someone else for a change too! Most of the other members have a list of deps to call on in case of illness etc. We've had some amazing players stand in over the years,and have learnt a lot from them as well. (A previous dep for me was an amazing player&could do anything as well as being a great chap too-I always felt a little insecure on my next gig back!) Likewise I love depping for others,although being in a working band I find that people often assume I'm not available when I am! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Seems a bit bad to be unavailable a lot (teachers holidays .. hummmmmmmmmmmm) and to also be snotty about the band depping someone one for you. I'd have to have a word about how selfish they are being. Generally when dealing with a gig enquiry I'll just say no rather than get in a dep, unless it's something special/big bucks/sounds like fun (eg freshers week ) or comes with some added value like the Gliding club gig we have this summer that comes with a day all the band's families can come along to and a few flights too However we have a somewhat left field solution to the problem of our guitarist being unavailable rather a lot that probably won't work for many bands: we invited his dep to join te band as well. So now we have two guitarists and on some gigs there will be Dave 1, others Dave 2 and on a few we have a Double Dose of Daves .... Fortunately they work very well together and on double Dave gigs I get to play a lot fewer notes I also dep and had the incredible situation last year of getting a phone call at 4 oclock on the day of the gig from the drummer/organiser saying his singer and guitarist had refused to play a gig with a bass player they didn't know - this was covering for someone who was ill and at 24 hours notice. They would rather let the venue down than "risk" it. Twits. That band folded after that mallarchy. Still I learned a few new tunes and now I'm putting a band together with the drummer so all was not lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 We have used a guitar dep (a friend of ours) before who's a good player, but generally our band find it difficult replacing people even with a lot of notice is given, mostly due to the nature of a lot of our covers and their structures, which whilst in my head they're completely ingrained, might take a while for a dep to work out. I've never had to call on a dep myself, because I've never not played a gig, but generally if we are playing with a dep we'll use a less labour-intensive set that comprises of more classic tunes that we can blast through without putting much strain on anyone in the band... that way we don't have to turn down gigs/money and everyone has an easier time, including deps. I'm lucky enough to play with 5 astounding good musicians however, who are very hard to stand in for. Luckily we have few instances now where deps are required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 One thing to make it easier for the deps is to record yoru gigs on a regular basis so they can have a decent idea of how you do things.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casapete Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 [quote name='OldGit' post='407355' date='Feb 12 2009, 09:58 AM']One thing to make it easier for the deps is to record yoru gigs on a regular basis so they can have a decent idea of how you do things..[/quote] Great idea, especially in a covers band if the material is changed a lot from the originals. We usually do songs in pretty much the same format as the best known versions - makes it easier for the dep(s),and the audience will be more familiar with it that way too/get up and dance sooner etc (Of course in original bands this ain't an issue....) I always make sure my pad of songs is in the van on all gigs,then if I couldn't make it whoever was depping would have a fighting chance at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassicinstinct Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Many years ago I was in a soul band which was a 10 - 13 piece, depending on the night/venue/gig. There were only three band members whose roles were, for whatever reason, never depped: Myself Female alto sax player. Lead vocalist/rhythm guitarist. I vivdly remember it dawning on me during a soundcheck one night that I was surrounded by players I had never even met before, much less actually played with, and that other than the above, [b]ALL [/b]players had been depped on the same night!!! To me, that just aint right and I can't see how the punters can have a hope in hell of getting a show which gets anywhere close to the band at full strength. Interesting evening though, I must admit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPJ Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I only dep for others, as due to family/work/life reasons I cannot commit to one project full time. As to the special ingredient argument, sometimes a dep can freshen things up and kick the band on a notch but I guess this depends on the quality of the dep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonybassplayer Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 [quote name='JPJ' post='407793' date='Feb 12 2009, 05:18 PM']I only dep for others, as due to family/work/life reasons I cannot commit to one project full time. As to the special ingredient argument, sometimes a dep can freshen things up and kick the band on a notch but I guess this depends on the quality of the dep.[/quote] Yes, from my experience we have had some songs take a new lease of life with a dep ( drummers in particular ) and it is also very good for heightening the concentration level on the night. So far we have only had one bad night with deps but many good ones ( some have been outstanding ) and I suspect it comes from a lower expectation level of the gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_Nailed Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I've only ever been in original bands where depping wasn't really an option - you had "the band" that wrote the music and rehearsed it, no other reason to teach the stuff to anyone else. Only rule was that we'd try utmost to do gigs, and we'd need a really good reason not to. Anniversarys, close personal family birthday's etc. It is a measure of commitment if someone is whether to miss a friends & family barbecue to do a gig in a toilet venue the same night, whereas there is other stuff that you can't really have a problem at missing a gig for. However it would seem to me that from my experience in larger ensembles at University and college that the more band members there are, the harder it is to get them all in the same place at the same time. If you're playing covers making money and you can't do a gig date, surely getting a dep in for you is the same as getting someone to cover your shift at any other job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonybassplayer Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Just had a call from our drummer who due to an unforeseen work problem is not available for tomorrow night's gig so it is dep time again !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steantval Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Our current line consists of vocalist, guitarist, keyboards, bass and drums. We have a very structured set list but have enough songs without the keyboard being a major factor and can still actually go out with an alternative set (guitar based) if the keyboard man cannot make it. Any other member who is not available then the gig does not get booked, deps certainly would not gel enough to keep the band tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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