bremen Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 [quote name='BassBunny' post='375241' date='Jan 9 2009, 03:04 PM']The 70DB figure came from the original study conducted in France. The details of this were published in one of the Sunday Papers last November.[/quote] The Sunday Post? The Sunday Express? The Mail on Sunday? I'd be more inclined to believe Viz than most Sunday papers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 OK, I've just ordered petitions on the website by 'date submitted': this one comes in at around 4693 out of 4807. Petitions can stay on the site for up to one year, and this one ends on 23rd January. Let's see if we can guess the date when this was first submitted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fudge Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 (edited) I have not read all the details but from experience there are not many self respecting pubs and venues that dont let you by-pass them. We invested in a couple of industrial strength and length extension reels many moons ago. signed anywho.... Edited January 9, 2009 by Mr Fudge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 (edited) Here's the link to the No 10 petition site [url="http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/NoNoiseControl/"]http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/NoNoiseControl/[/url] There are ways around sound limiters, namely to run an extension to a power source not governed by the limiter. The ironic thing about limiters is that it is normally drum kits that set them off. Signed Edited January 9, 2009 by ezbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 [quote name='BTGAndy' post='375243' date='Jan 9 2009, 03:08 PM']If this we're really happening do you not think that the MU would be going spare?[/quote] Nothing on their website (search terms 'sound level', 'limiter' and '70dB') It's a tabloid story, isn't it. Next thing we know, scientists will have discovered that looking at silicone tits for 10 minutes is the equivalent of an hour in the gym. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 [quote name='bremen' post='375256' date='Jan 9 2009, 03:14 PM']Nothing on their website (search terms 'sound level', 'limiter' and '70dB') It's a tabloid story, isn't it. Next thing we know, scientists will have discovered that looking at silicone tits for 10 minutes is the equivalent of an hour in the gym.[/quote] No it's real check my link in my post above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stylon Pilson Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 [quote name='ezbass' post='375260' date='Jan 9 2009, 03:17 PM']No it's real check my link in my post above.[/quote] Your link is just another link to the same petition. We're looking for an actual source here. S.P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 (edited) [quote name='ezbass' post='375260' date='Jan 9 2009, 03:17 PM']No it's real check my link in my post above.[/quote] Oh it's real alright. In case any missed the point of my previous post I'll make it simple - This petition was submitted in January 2008. It refers to the Noise Control legislation that was enacted in 2005, and came into force for music venues in April 2008. We've been living with this evil, pernicious legislation for the last 9 months. Edit: Sorry if that sounds a bit patronising... Edited January 9, 2009 by Musky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 [quote name='Stylon Pilson' post='375261' date='Jan 9 2009, 03:18 PM']Your link is just another link to the same petition. We're looking for an actual source here. S.P.[/quote] I'm going to go with the smoke and fire analogy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 [quote name='Musky' post='375269' date='Jan 9 2009, 03:22 PM']Oh it's real alright. In case any missed the point of my previous post I'll make it simple - This petition was submitted in January 2008. It refers to the Noise Control legislation that was enacted in 2005, and came into force for music venues in April 2008. We've been living with this evil, pernicious legislation for the last 9 months.[/quote] There was a thread on this legislation at the time; someone panicked and said 'we're all going to be forced to play panpipes'. There was a bit of debate and the consensus was that the only effect it would have would be to encourage management to assess risks. So where does 70dB come in, apart from being the starting point of an obscure academic study? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumnote Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 [quote name='Stylon Pilson' post='375261' date='Jan 9 2009, 03:18 PM']Your link is just another link to the same petition. We're looking for an actual source here. S.P.[/quote] Statutory Instrument 2005 No. 1643 The Control of Noise at Work Regulations 2005 The regulations exist as above. They are designed to protect peoples hearing in the workplace ie factories [if we had any] shipyards [if we had any] etc. The change is a proposaol to who it affects. Untill now, the law has not been applied to venues, but they are still places of work with bar staff, cleaners whatever. There is also a requirement by local authorites which has changed dramatacally over noise pollution over the years. As from April 2008 entertainment venues have to comply with The Control of Noise at Work Regulations to ensure that workers hearing is protected. Legislation provides that as from 1 October 2006, local authorities are able to issue fixed penalty notices in the region of £500 to the person in charge of the premises at the time of any noise complaint. This could be the license holder, manager or any other employee. This is in addition to their existing powers to serve noise abatement notices and review premises licenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauBass Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Signed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 [quote name='ezbass' post='375270' date='Jan 9 2009, 03:23 PM']I'm going to go with the smoke and fire analogy.[/quote] It's dry ice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 (edited) [quote name='bumnote' post='375276' date='Jan 9 2009, 03:28 PM']As from April 2008 entertainment venues have to comply with The Control of Noise at Work Regulations to ensure that workers hearing is protected. Legislation provides that as from 1 October 2006, local authorities are able to issue fixed penalty notices in the region of £500 to the person in charge of the premises at the time of any noise complaint. This could be the license holder, manager or any other employee. This is in addition to their existing powers to serve noise abatement notices and review premises licenses.[/quote] Not quite the same as enforcing a 70dB limit, as the petition claims. Via the MU site: [url="http://www.soundadvice.info/"]http://www.soundadvice.info/[/url] Has anyone been prosecuted since April? Edited January 9, 2009 by bremen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumnote Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 [quote name='bremen' post='375284' date='Jan 9 2009, 03:32 PM']Not quite the same as enforcing a 70dB limit, as the petition claims. Has anyone been prosecuted since April?[/quote] While I appreciate the internet is often used for scare stories, this isnt. My singer runs a pub, and has experienced difficulties with noise levels from the local council 4 of our regular venues [which are generally WMC have fitted these as required by the local council, and in relation to a risk assesment carried out by a competent person. The drummers bought a flat kit specially, Is it 70 db, dont think so, but it depends where the measurement is taken, in front of the stage, by the bar, or by the nearest house. Has anyone been prosecuted, dunno Choose not to beleive if you like, Some people think the worlds flat Some people didnt think the titanic could sink Im waiting to see all the ads soon, 500watt amp for sale, or swap for 10watt combo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 [quote name='bumnote' post='375294' date='Jan 9 2009, 03:41 PM']While I appreciate the internet is often used for scare stories, this isnt. My singer runs a pub, and has experienced difficulties with noise levels from the local council 4 of our regular venues [which are generally WMC have fitted these as required by the local council, and in relation to a risk assesment carried out by a competent person. The drummers bought a flat kit specially, Is it 70 db, dont think so, but it depends where the measurement is taken, in front of the stage, by the bar, or by the nearest house. Has anyone been prosecuted, dunno Choose not to beleive if you like, Some people think the worlds flat Some people didnt think the titanic could sink Im waiting to see all the ads soon, 500watt amp for sale, or swap for 10watt combo[/quote] Nobody here has been suggesting that these devices are welcome. Some of us have been suggesting that the petition is if not an actual hoax then a scare-story. As we've seen, the petition is pointless as whatever it is (certainly not the 70dB cutoff as described) has been in effect for months now. It's a bit rude to accuse those of us who wanted a few facts before we signed anything of being flat-earthers. Surely those who signed without question are the ones more likely to believe the earth is flat and the Titanic can't sink just because some (un-named) Sunday paper told them so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatori Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Signed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cetera Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 [quote name='steve' post='375237' date='Jan 9 2009, 03:01 PM']I've signed it, but I did wonder why they want address details - probably so they know where to send the blackshirts to for some intense political debate at 4o'clock in the morning[/quote] It's so they can get a list together of everyone who plays a musical instrument in a pub/club etc (& therefore probably earns cash in hand). Expect a visit from the taxman shortly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderthumbs Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Guys, Having only read through the first page of replies here, I just wanted to point out that I emailed bassbunny this morning with the link to the petition. It was sent to me by a fellow band member who'd received it from one of our agents. So regardless of whether it's a hoax or not, I'm not going to spend questioning its validity. I signed it purely as I'd rather register my opposal to it first rather than sit back and do nothing. I've had first hand experience of these damned meters on more than one occasion. One time, it didn't matter how loud or quiet I played an "E", and that could be anywhere on the neck, the meter went berserk. I could play any other note as loud as I wanted and couldn't get it to kick in as it should. Imagine trying to play two sets without playing E! Subsequently, it cut off the electricity any time we did. After about 6 times, we turned off, packed up and went home. Another time, the unit was right behind my cab. I had the volume as low as I could, and would you know, the electricity tripped. The management agreed that we were well within their acceptable volume limit, and agreed to us taking power from a source outside the ring with the meter on. All this points to common sense, not bloody automatrons running our lives! For the good of us all, I wholeheartedly agree with bassbunny's original post an urge you to sign it. Cheers, Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Thunderthumbs' post='375312' date='Jan 9 2009, 04:06 PM']For the good of us all, I wholeheartedly agree with bassbunny's original post an urge you to sign it. Cheers, Pete.[/quote] But Pete, it's already law! Has been since April! And contrary to the wording in the OP it *doesn't* call for mandatory spl meters. Read The Control of Noise at Work Regulations 2005 or [url="http://www.soundadvice.info/"]http://www.soundadvice.info/[/url] We all prefer to be governed by common sense not bloody automatons, but surely we should check our facts before signing? If you object to the law as it really is, as opposed to how a Sunday paper spins it, then create a new petition based on the facts and I'll happily sign it. (edited for typo) Edited January 9, 2009 by bremen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeBrownBass Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 theres not even 600 signatures on it yet! If it doesn't get to atleast 5000 very minimum they won't even look at it! -Jake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassmouseman Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Signed, and i'd do it again if i could! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumfrog Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I thought the whole thing was just to do with protection of staff, just like the whole no smoking thing. The way most places got around this was just to supply ear plugs free of charge. The only places I've ever played with a limiter are older and more respectable buildings. If it was brought in as law then surely all gigs would become a thing of the past??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 [quote name='jake_tenfloors' post='375343' date='Jan 9 2009, 04:27 PM']theres not even 600 signatures on it yet! If it doesn't get to atleast 5000 very minimum they won't even look at it! -Jake[/quote] That figure is up about 50% on the number of signatures it had when the thread started. A month ago (after it had been up for 11 months) it had less than 50. As Bremen points out, the person who originally posted the petition has got his facts completely wrong and was petitioning against legislation that had been enacted two years previously. The simple fact is that noise limiters are far more likely to be in place because of local government stipulations in the venue's license. So people would be far better off writing to the council of affected venues rather than getting hot under the collar about an act that does NOT make limiters compulsory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 [quote name='bumfrog' post='375379' date='Jan 9 2009, 04:46 PM']I thought the whole thing was just to do with protection of staff, just like the whole no smoking thing. The way most places got around this was just to supply ear plugs free of charge. The only places I've ever played with a limiter are older and more respectable buildings. If it was brought in as law then surely all gigs would become a thing of the past???[/quote] +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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