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NBD - Well this wasn't in the plan

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On 16/05/2019 at 21:43, Ricky 4000 said:

Your "R" is more like a cartoon "R".

Expect to be sued by Toys 'R' Us...

Just now, Meddle said:

You guys commission shadow builders to produce them to your designs, specs and price points, right? David doesn't fly to China to personally break out the chisels and spokeshaves.

In a global economy what's the difference between guys in a factory in China/India making it for you and guys in a factory in Englandmaking it for you (except price)?

 

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If that’s what you want to call it. 

My point was that anything on aliexpress is not ours  

 

Edited by Chownybass
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Just now, Stub Mandrel said:

In a global economy what's the difference between guys in a factory in China/India making it for you and guys in a factory in Englandmaking it for you (except price)?

 

Geography doesn't come into it. My point was that these instruments are presented as being built by brand X, but they are really built by company Y in some sort of unnamed, unknown factory. Brand X (be it Chowny or Retrovibe) aren't really as hands-on with the production as is perhaps being made out here. 

I've never bought the whole anti-China thing, which is virulent on Talkbass for example. I've owned two Chinese-built Fender basses (a Coronado and a Starcaster) and the fit and finish was great on both.  The binding on the neck of the Coronado was beautifully applied, and free of the sort of tool marks and discolouration you see every day on Gibsons and Rickenbackers. The fretwork was brilliant on both! The electronics were dire, using mini 'Alpha' brand pots and a generic switch and jack, however.

The Chinese plants will build an instrument to your specs and to your price point. They could probably make dead-on Alembic Series 1 clones, but not for Aliexpress prices. This notion that there isn't a single competent luthier in China is pretty much anti-Chinese racism and paranoia which stems, most notably, from the US. 

Having said all that, my Chinese-built Burns Marquee bass, Hagstrom HB-8 and bootleg Dan Armstrong lucite copy were all utter garbage from top to bottom. Poor finish, low quality fret work and just a general air of un-design about them. They didn't work as musical instruments. The Hagstrom wouldn't intonate, the Burns pickups only sensed the A and D strings fully and the Dan Armstrong required serious carpentry to get the action playable low. 

My US-built Rickenbacker had a good number of issues. The electronics had been soldered by Stevie Wonder, the finish was rubbery and prone to dents, and the neck is slowly folding around the neck pickup route. The stock Rick pickups are unbalanced and very beamy/clacky from the pole pieces.

My Korean-built Dearmond was built really well. I've owned a raft of Mexican Fender guitars and basses, and they've been all over the map in terms of quality. 

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4 minutes ago, Chownybass said:

If that’s what you want to call it. 

My point was that anything on aliexpress is not ours  

 

Its a shame that I've spotted clones of both your hollow basses and David's Vantage/RV4 designs on there. Either the original factories simply keep building them or the designs get passed around:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Shelly-new-store-custom-tobacco-flame-maple-4-strings-jazz-bass-F-hole-hollow-body-electric/32845377431.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.125.1523764f26CpYO&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_8_10065_10130_10068_10547_319_317_10548_10696_10192_10190_453_10084_454_10083_10618_10307_10820_10301_10821_10303_537_536_10059_10884_10887_321_322_10103,searchweb201603_53,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=2d17cb12-5065-49c8-a1c1-60625a57368e-20&algo_pvid=2d17cb12-5065-49c8-a1c1-60625a57368e&transAbTest=ae803_5

 

 

The 4005 design you see coming out of Chinese factories is clearly derived from images of 4005 basses rather than a dissected example. Gibson copies tend to be a bit closer, and some Fender designs look like original instruments were measured up and analysed. 

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11 hours ago, Chownybass said:

They are built by us. All the basses we make are our own designs. We use production facilities in India. 

We do not sell anything on Aliexpress. Although I believe there are some fakes of our stuff around now. 

We sell on our own website, and via some retailers in the UK (Bass Direct, Bass Gallery, Andertons and Gear4Music)

We at Chowny make the Vantage basses but that’s as close as you’ll get to a 4005 with us. 

David @ Retrovibe does make small numbers of these in China from time to time. But not through us. 

Hope that all makes sense. 

Thank you! I'm none the wiser as to where mine originated but it's lovely to look at and once I've played it in and set it up to my tastes it'll be a keeper! 

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10 hours ago, Meddle said:
11 hours ago, Chownybass said:

If that’s what you want to call it. 

My point was that anything on aliexpress is not ours  

 

Its a shame that I've spotted clones of both your hollow basses and David's Vantage/RV4 designs on there. Either the original factories simply keep building them or the designs get passed around: 

I don't know much about the bass market but I do know a lot about the background to importing tools and machine tools.

In China (not sure about India) they are very efficient at resource use. Any QC fails are often sold at the back door or passed on to a 'family member'. If you are lucky they then get repaired (I've had speed controllers which had failed reflow soldering and been manually resoldered by someone in boxing gloves with plumbers solder, but they worked) or just tidied up a bit. They then get sold to Ali Baba, Aliexpress, eBay etc. and people see they look to all intents identical to the 'real thing'.

Down the road, the buyers complain of poor quality Chinese products and lack of spares/seller support...

My advice is always buy imports off a seller who has the size to hold spares, undertake quality control and give you customer service if anything is wrong. This does cost more but you are actually paying for something worth having.

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On 16/05/2019 at 21:43, Ricky 4000 said:

Your "R" is more like a cartoon "R".

Once again, a thread on basschat degenerates into an argument over who's got the best Rs  :)

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So is this aliexpress making copies of trademarked brands and selling them as unplayable crap??

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1 hour ago, Hobbayne said:

So is this aliexpress making copies of trademarked brands and selling them as unplayable crap??

Maybe playable. Maybe not. You have no right to recourse if it isn't. 

I'm quite philosophical about the copies of my stuff floating around. I know my basses are better. I know they're copies of the old chinese versions of my basses, although the factory I used to use swears they are nothing to do with it. I can't stop it - so I don't get excited about it.

I also know since we moved production our basses are SO much better than the ones we were getting out of China - even before they started knocking them out with cheaper parts etc.

Also Aliexpress is just a marketplace. Like Ebay. They don't actually make anything. They just facilitate the sale.

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There's a lovely Chowny winks at me every time I go in my local music shop. I've resisted so far but they are really nice. 

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2 minutes ago, stewblack said:

There's a lovely Chowny winks at me every time I go in my local music shop. I've resisted so far but they are really nice. 

I want an SWB-1 in my collection as my modern shortscale bass. 

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My BAR* has dropped dramatically since I decided to play only six string bass - they are rarely seen out in the wild, so there is very little temptation!

 

*  BAR (Bass Acquisition Rate) is closely related to GAS, of course.

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6 minutes ago, FinnDave said:

*  BAR (Bass Acquisition Rate) is closely related to GAS, of course.

It is fact the measure of how much GAS pressure you have 😉.

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1 hour ago, ezbass said:

It is fact the measure of how much GAS pressure you have 😉.

Gas pressure is also linked to MIP.

(Money Increase Phase)

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59 minutes ago, BreadBin said:

Gas pressure is also linked to MIP.

(Money Increase Phase)

Unfortunately, I haven't yet experienced MIP.

Edited by FinnDave

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3 minutes ago, FinnDave said:

Unfortunately, I haven't yet experienced MIP.

It comes right after that moment you play an instrument you want more than any other you've ever played and decide that you have at least 5 or 6 that you need less than the money for an equivalent.

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Ah, I have always taken a different approach, I buy what I want and then start selling off things I no longer need (spare basses, amps, kidneys, etc) to cover the debt. I operated a bit like the government does, but I am not devious or dishonest enough to be a politician, sadly. 

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1 hour ago, PJ-Bassist said:

Just read this thread, did you ever figure out who produced the bass?

No it looks like it was just a mass produced Chinese faker of the kind advertised on AliExpress. Someone imported it and then put it in the 2nd hand shop. 

Don't know why the guy down there thought it was a Chowny, I was entirely ignorant back then. I have learned since! 

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Thats a shame, because I want one.  Weblink now please 😂

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16 minutes ago, Kev said:

Thats a shame, because I want one.  Weblink now please 😂

like this?

Edited by Kev

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4 minutes ago, stewblack said:

like this?

My bad, I shouldn't have joked about it.  No links to sales on here thanks to you know who...🙄

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20 minutes ago, Kev said:

My bad, I shouldn't have joked about it.  No links to sales on here thanks to you know who...🙄

Well I did wonder but I hate to disappoint any one in the green ink brigade 😅

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