Zoom B1-4 & B3N - Effects patch ideas and tips

[Ricky 4000]

11 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

The word stereo only appears twice in the manual, relating to the headphones, but no mention of any stereo processing, whereas the manual for the b3n mentions that the looper can be stereo.

 

5 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

It doesn't anywhere say it is stereo out, it says it supports stereo headphones, but no mention anywhere else in the Manual or specifications of any stereo processing.

B3n:

Quote

• Dual output jacks for connection to bass amps and mono or stereo PA systems
• Dedicated stereo headphone output

👍

[Woodinblack]

7 hours ago, Ricky 4000 said:

B3n:

👍

Indeed, if you scroll back you will read the part that says 'unlike the B3n that mentions it'. There is no doubt the B3n does stereo. But thanks anyway!

[dave_bass5]

Pretty sure it only mentions mono twice as well.

Still can’t see what the confusion is over the output though. It mentions stereo, no where does it say mono regarding the output. It shows power rating for two channels and the Aux in is stereo which passes through to the output. 
😂

[Woodinblack]

 

50 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Pretty sure it only mentions mono twice as well.

No it has a section on the stereo looper and also a few more quotes. I did check when I said it.

Quote

Still can’t see what the confusion is over the output though. It mentions stereo, no where does it say mono regarding the output. It shows power rating for two channels and the Aux in is stereo which passes through to the output.

Any stereo aux that comes in goes out to the headphones as stereo, so the output is certainly stereo from aux.

However, I just checked a direct A/B between StereoBassCho* on both the B1/four and the B3n, and if the B1/four is stereo they have really masacred the output of that effect when they did it. I tried it on the B1/4 and it certainly didn't sound stereo (from my unscientific listening), then tried the same effect (both as default) on the B3n and it really sounds deep and wide, just like a stereo chorus. There is just a depth / rate / locut and mix controls on both and they are set to the same.

If that really is stereo, they have screwed something up!

And as previously mentioned, I don't care if it is stereo or not from my use, other than having got one, I wondered what the difference from the B1/Four and B3n. There is a cost difference, even now, I wondered what that difference is due to, an I am reckoning (without a scrap of proof!) that it doesn't have the same level of DSP processing that the B3N does.

*Picked as it was the first stereo patch on the B1Four.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Woodinblack

[Al Krow]

Cheers Woody. The B3n has larger form factor metal housing, 3 displays, larger patch memory storage, more flappy padels and 3 Stomp switches plus the option of stereo out (not requiring a TRS). I would have thought that would have accounted for a big chunk of the price difference?

My understanding has always been that the B1-4 was otherwise using exactly the same chipset as the B3n. If it's not, that would be interesting news. 

Edited May 17, 2021 by Al Krow

[Chienmortbb]

16 hours ago, dave_bass5 said:

I love the B1-four as it can be run off battery, but i also got a cheap Bluetooth receiver off Amazon so i could play my iphone (no headphone out) through it. It didnt cut down on cables as such, but once i discovered i could stream YouTube and Apple Music from my Apple TV,  and use its remote, it made late night living room practice really enjoyable, especially as i also used a wireless  system for the bass. 

The lightning connector has headphone out, You just need a Lightning to 3.5mm TRS. https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MMX62ZM/A/lightning-to-35mm-headphone-jack-adapter This link is to thr Apple one but there are other makes.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Chienmortbb

[Chienmortbb]

3 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

 

No it has a section on the stereo looper and also a few more quotes. I did check when I said it.

Any stereo aux that comes in goes out to the headphones as stereo, so the output is certainly stereo from aux.

However, I just checked a direct A/B between StereoBassCho* on both the B1/four and the B3n, and if the B1/four is stereo they have really masacred the output of that effect when they did it. I tried it on the B1/4 and it certainly didn't sound stereo (from my unscientific listening), then tried the same effect (both as default) on the B3n and it really sounds deep and wide, just like a stereo chorus. There is just a depth / rate / locut and mix controls on both and they are set to the same.

If that really is stereo, they have screwed something up!

And as previously mentioned, I don't care if it is stereo or not from my use, other than having got one, I wondered what the difference from the B1/Four and B3n. There is a cost difference, even now, I wondered what that difference is due to, an I am reckoning (without a scrap of proof!) that it doesn't have the same level of DSP processing that the B3N does.

*Picked as it was the first stereo patch on the B1Four.

Thankfully I don't need Stereo Out from any effect excpet  direct from the Aux input. It is amazing how much of a track you can lose if only running one side of a stereo mix. Stereo effects in a live setting is not only a waste of time but can, and will, cause some effects to change depending on room acoustics.

[Woodinblack]

31 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Cheers Woody. The B3n has larger form factor metal housing, 3 displays, larger patch memory storage

This is true, it has a better build quality in general, and you can have more patches, although some of the patches in the B3N take two slots instead of 1, is that the saem in the B1/4?

31 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

more flappy padels

Is that pedals that are more flappy, or a greater quantity of pedals of an equal flappyness ?

The pedals on the B1/four are bigger, in fact, so much so I would imagine the b1/4 has a larger totaly flappy area!

31 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

My understanding has always been that the B1-4 was otherwise using exactly the same chipset as the B3n. If it's not, that would be interesting news. 

Well, the only way to find out would be to either ask someone who knows or to take one apart. I was only guessing, I have no knowledge, and I am not sure if I feel like taking them apart at the moment. There appears to be no take apart video on youtube - kids of today, what the hell are they waiting for??

However, if it had the same chipset, why would it have fewer memories?

[Woodinblack]

3 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

Thankfully I don't need Stereo Out from any effect excpet  direct from the Aux input. It is amazing how much of a track you can lose if only running one side of a stereo mix. Stereo effects in a live setting is not only a waste of time but can, and will, cause some effects to change depending on room acoustics.

I don't need stereo either, but most keyboards, even some of the mono ones have stereo outputs, and I would suspect some of those live must be wired stereo. There was a performance from the RAH yesterday where the presenter said that the system was being run in quadrophonic sound. Obviously that wasn't a standard band tour

[Ricky 4000]

6 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

Indeed, if you scroll back you will read the part that says 'unlike the B3n that mentions it'. There is no doubt the B3n does stereo. But thanks anyway!

Sorry Woody, I wasn't aware you had both units.

I just have a B3n, and I use it most of the time at home, usually mono into a mixer.

If I were to attempt to make a point, it would be that the effects seem bigger (and louder)*, when I've listened via the B3n's stereo 'phones' out. Therefore I wouldn't want to set up patches that way if I was going to use them mono live: Instrument > B3n > Amp > Audience.

I'm in the process of moving my music room to a different room at the moment, but when I'm done, I'll be testing the thing by recording it mono vs stereo (must buy some more patch cables**).

👍

 

* Maybe not all the effects... perhaps its just the stereo ones!?

** Note to self. 😃

[Al Krow]

44 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

However, if it had the same chipset, why would it have fewer memories?

Hah! I knew you would pick up on that, hence my including the word "otherwise" 😊

You can have the same CPU but with different amounts of memory, right? I mean, mobile phones do that all the time.

We need to bring in the cavalry here! @jimfist - do you have any insight / gossip on whether the same CPU with same DSP is in both the B3n and B1-4? 

Edited May 17, 2021 by Al Krow

[Woodinblack]

51 minutes ago, Ricky 4000 said:

If I were to attempt to make a point, it would be that the effects seem bigger (and louder)*, when I've listened via the B3n's stereo 'phones' out. Therefore I wouldn't want to set up patches that way if I was going to use them mono live: Instrument > B3n > Amp > Audience.

Indeed - the stereo effects are notably more involving and more in depth than the same effect in mono, which is where i am seeing the difference in the two devices. The 'stereo' chorus I was listening to sounded the same on the B1/four in headphones and through a speaker, the B3N sounded different, so yes I can see if you set up the effect you wanted in stereo you might be persuaded to turn it down a bit to make it more subtle, and lose it entirely in mono.

 

51 minutes ago, Ricky 4000 said:

I'm in the process of moving my music room to a different room at the moment, but when I'm done, I'll be testing the thing by recording it mono vs stereo (must buy some more patch cables**).

That is a good point, maybe i might just record the same sound through a mono and stereo output and see what the difference is.

[jimfist]

8 hours ago, Al Krow said:

We need to bring in the cavalry here! @jimfist - do you have any insight / gossip on whether the same CPU with same DSP is in both the B3n and B1-4? 

Wish I could be of some help, but I don't know much about CPU/DSP for the Zoom pedals. I just plug 'em and play 'em. 😉

[Al Krow]

John's two Amp & Cab patches uploaded onto the OP.

Fyi - I've also uploaded a better "Presence" patch - spotted that the limiter I had included with the previous version of the patch, to deal with volume spikes if I'm using for slap now that I've taken my Becos compressor off my board, had the threshold set too low and was squishing the sound far too much! All now sorted! 

[Al Krow]

One of my favourite Zoom patches is TapeEcho. I've got mine set on 300ms delay - really nice 60s vibe and a very usable sound (think Portugal. The Man - Feel it Still). I've always enjoyed a bit of Tremolo too. Thought I'd put them together to come up with a Tape Tremolo patch and it kinda works as expected! 

Uploaded to the OP for B1-4 users.

[Al Krow]

45 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Had another practice last night, better than the first. Still seems odd, still haven't practiced with the band who I have a gig with in 3 weeks.

However, the B-Stock ashdown ABM600 I bought in lockdown coupled with either the shuker or the Ibanez EHB1505 both of which I bought in lockdown, going through the B1-Four that I bought in lockdown sound absolutely glorious!

Nice to try these things, and really looking forward to gigging them!

Oh, also my wife was very happy with the XVive U4 wireless IEM that I bought in lockdown (well, arrived yesterday), although it almost didn' tmake the cut as it intefered with the wireless of the X18 mixer (which incidently, I have had for years!) until I changed channel.

Hey Woody, that's brill! Just pulling you onto this B1-4 thread for my follow up B1-4 query:

Great that you've already had a chance to try the B1-4 out in a band mix. What patches were you using and what was it bringing to the party?

Given that you were saying that the B3N sounded a lot "richer" tonally for stereo effects, I presume you're not finding that for non-stereo effects?

[Woodinblack]

1 minute ago, Al Krow said:

Great that you've already had a chance to try the B1-4 out in a band mix. What patches were you using and what was it bringing to the party?

Actually not that much in this case. This is my motown group, last practice I brought my pedalboard (helix HX, Boss Sy1, etc) but didn't want to carry much so I was going to go straight to the amp but then thought about it and decided to bring the B1-4 as it fits in no space. The pedal board is for the other group.

I just used some of the clearer patches, at the moment basically the default ones as I had too much other stuff to try out. But I flipped between the first patch and the motown patch, which tamed the EHB (which is a nordy, quite agressive, not so great for dock of the bay etc), and the jaco patch for part of feeling good.

TBH, my main concern at the moment is the amp, it is only the second time I have used it and will be gigging it so I want to get some measure of what it does.

1 minute ago, Al Krow said:

Given that you were saying that the B3N sounded a lot "richer" tonally for stereo effects, I presume you're not finding that for non-stereo effects?

For mono (whch is what I am doing almost all the time) I don't really hear much of a difference between them.

For me, the 'put it in your bag, plug it in on batteries' almost zero setup cost of using it is absolutely perfect for practices. I don't find the depth of the effects are the same as the Helix HX at the moment, but I have only just started using it, and I have never heard it played through the same amp yet.

[Al Krow]

Not sure why it's taken me quite so long to discover the Xotic BB drive on the B1-4!

Anyway here's a Xotic BB patch plus a dirty analogue chorus featuring the same drive, which seems to work well:

Xotic BB [AK-Dri].zb1f AnalChoDri [AK-Mod].zb1f

(also posted in the patch library in the OP for ease of future reference).

Edited June 23, 2021 by Al Krow

[Chienmortbb]

18 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Not sure why it's taken me quite so long to discover the Xotic BB drive on the B1-4!

Anyway here's a Xotic BB patch plus a dirty analogue chorus featuring the same drive, which seems to work well:

Xotic BB [AK-Dri].zb1f 621 B · 0 downloads AnalChoDri [AK-Mod].zb1f 578 B · 0 downloads

(also posted in the patch library in the OP for ease of future reference).

Oh dear Mr Krow, now I will have to plug my B1-4 into my computiing machine once again. Thanks for sharing.

[Al Krow]

43 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

Oh dear Mr Krow, now I will have to plug my B1-4 into my computiing machine once again. Thanks for sharing.

Do please let me know what you think, when you've had a chance to audition them.

[isteen]

After goofing around with the B3n I find myself returning to two effects.

The RC Boost and the Roger Mayer Voodoo thing is just my cup of tea (Well, two cups)

Edited July 23, 2021 by isteen

[Al Krow]

15 minutes ago, Waddo Soqable said:

The zoom B1 4  is a great little pedal certainly, I wasn't overly keen on the synth sound that comes as standard, but you can extensively tweak and save your own versions.

And as mentioned above has lots of other useful features, highly recommended IMHO.

 

Pulling you onto our patch ideas thread if I may - if you've got a tweaked version of the synth patch that you're using that you'd be up for sharing (e.g. as a ToneLib file), that would be marvellous!

 

[Waddo Soqable]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 

Pulling you onto our patch ideas thread if I may - if you've got a tweaked version of the synth patch that you're using that you'd be up for sharing (e.g. as a ToneLib file), that would be marvellous!

 

I've only been messing around with it really and not specifically "saved" anything. ( I don't have a serious use for a synth sound on bass tbh )  but if I come up with anything truly Fab I'll happily share it of course !

[Al Krow]

Loved this quote about the B1-4!

19 hours ago, bassman7755 said:

Just bought a B1 four myself, fantastic bit of kit, cant understand why every bass player on earth doesn't own one really, at change from £70 delivered its a no brainer, even if you use to just audition various types of compressor then buy the dedicated pedal (although I recon the models are as good as the real thing in most cases ...) .

Welcome to the owner's club @bassman7755 and help yourself to any of the patches on the OP which can be accessed via ToneLib Zoom

[tauzero]

Just getting round to doing some patches on the B3n and revisited this thread. One observation I'll make on questions from a few months ago - it's quite possible that the B3n and B1-4 have the same chipset but the B1-4 has been downgraded somewhat in its capability. Using the same chipset gives Zoom advantages in volume purchasing, and having the B1-4 not quite as capable as the B3n gives the B1-4 buyer a possible upgrade path that allows them to remain with Zoom.