tstephens Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) Hello everyone, Quick bit of background, I play bass in a three piece post-hardcore/screamo band and have recently bought a bunch of cheap and cheerful gear to see if I want to take this band and the hobby seriously. I'm having a lot of fun and I think I've found what is roughly the sound I want (I use a sort of Musicman Stingray copy but with a neck and bridge pick up, mostly turned to the bridge and I use a Boss DS-1 pedal for half our songs). Now the problem: I had the unfortunate opportunity to play through the headline band's rig the other night and I'm now in love. It was an Ampeg SVT 2 Pro and an Ampeg 8x10 Cab. Normally I run a Behringer head ripped out of a combo, which sounds good enough on the occasions when I can run it through something nice like an Ampeg 8x10, but most often I am borrowing a Hartke 4x10 and it doesn't really get loud enough and lacks a lot of clarity. My question is: I know nothing will match it, but just how close can I get to the godly volume and clarity of an SVT 2 Pro with an 8x10 cab? I'm on a budget and am unable to cart around an 8x10. I can probably store one but it will never fit in the van we're currently using along with all the other gear. Am I better off sticking with my Behringer head and getting a decent Ampeg 4x10 (does such a thing exist)? Should I be looking to upgrade both? Are combos a waste of time for gigging? Disclaimer: I am saving for a wedding, so funds are limited, but I can justify somewhere between £300-£500, and I'm perfectly happy to buy things second hand and a bit tatty. Edited June 25, 2018 by tstephens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painy Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 A lot of the benefit of an 810 cab is simply having some of the speakers up nearer to ear level so I'd try raising your cab up off the ground on some beer crates or something like that to see if that helps first. A Hartke 410 should really be plenty 99% if the time - I'd say the lack of clarity and volume is more likely down to the amp than the cab. As far as the Ampeg sound goes you could do a lot worse than running a Tech 21 Vt-Bass preamp pedal into your amp which often come up second hand for around £100. Would still leave you a decent chunk of money to upgrade the head if you still felt the need (Behringer kit is good value for money if you're on a tight budget but you can definitely find something lightyears better in your budget - especially if you go used. If you're borrowing the cab and would rather have your own then you could probably pick up an Ashdown 410 cab and amp head as well as the Vt-Bass pedal for comfortably under the top end of your budget. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bay Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 It won’t have the look but it’s worth considering some of the newer cab designs. I recently swapped from an epic Trace Elliot rig to a Barefaced compact and midget. They are both one hand lifts and take up little space but boy so they pack a punch, attached to a 1000w Terror bass head it has been massive overkill for every venue since I got it. For medium sized pubs I sometimes just take the compact. Visually not as big an impact as an 8x10 but you won’t be lacking sound wise. You wouldn’t get all of of it in your budget but if you were prepared to have a slightly tatty one as you say then one of the bigger Barefaced cabs would be in budget. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bam Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 You can pick up 8x10s ridiculously cheap. There's always ones on eBay for under £100. A 6x10 maybe a better option but they're usually more expensive. A 4x10 should suffice though if driven properly, and is more flexible as you can also dad another 4x10 if not, and they're easier to carry around. As a very rough guide you would want your amp head to be giving out approx 300w at 8ohm (depending on cab). If you need more clarity try changing your eq on your current rig to see if that makes a difference - add some high mids. If you love the ampeg svt sound there's ways to get close, but you'll never be spot on. A VT pedal, flyrig pedal etc will definitely get close and be more flexible. You'll then just need to know that your loud enough with your current amp and cab. If it was my choice id probably be looking to spend £100 second hand on a cab (you can get some real bargains), and the rest on a better head. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 If you can manage a 610 then I have a pretty decent one for sale - shameless plug - an Ashdown RM610 at £350. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Lozz196 said: If you can manage a 610 then I have a pretty decent one for sale - shameless plug - an Ashdown RM610 at £350. Add the Ashdown ABM 400 in the classifieds at the minute (bit over budget but that's what we're here for!) and that'd be a stonking rig! Lightweight gear is all the rage at the minute (and has been for a few years) so you'll find that heavier gear is pretty cheap... Edited June 26, 2018 by Bigwan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 I'd suggest you are not driving the existing 4x10 sufficiently. Buying a better cab will not change anything if you are still using an inadequate head (I would imagine a Behringer amp taken from a combo will not have much power). Upgrade the amp and continue to borrow the Hartke for now would be my advice. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tstephens Posted June 26, 2018 Author Share Posted June 26, 2018 (edited) Thank you all for your replies. This is very informative. For those interested, my head is taken from this combo: https://www.gak.co.uk/en/behringer-bx-4210a/928 I have borrowed a pre-amp pedal in the past but found it very noisy, caused lots of feedback, and didn't really do anything for the the sound. Am I right in think it's probably because of this head and not the pedal then? I think, based on the advice so far, I will buy a pre-amp pedal and look at getting a decent head and continue to borrow the 4x10 as the cab seems to be the least responsible for the bottleneck in my rig. If anyone has any suggestions on decent heads (<£300) that work well with a pre-amp pedal and will sound good with a slightly trebly, distorted rock tone I'd love to hear from you! As I understand it, my current amp pushes 450 watts which is quite high? Should I be going for something even more or is there another variable I need to look at? One other question, if I pick up the pre-amp pedal now is it likely to do anything for me? Or am I better off grabbing the head first? Edited June 26, 2018 by tstephens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 (edited) I wouldn't bother with a pre-amp pedal. Put the money towards a decent head, which will have a good pre on board. As far as recommednations is concerned, you need to go and audition a few to see what works for you. One man's meat and all that. Edited June 26, 2018 by Dan Dare ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bam Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 If you're lucky you may find a tech21 VT bass amp for £400. That does the svt style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tstephens Posted June 26, 2018 Author Share Posted June 26, 2018 (edited) Just want to clarify a question I asked earlier. My current head is 450W and I think we're all agreed is responsible for the bottleneck in volume. I've seen a 400W Ashdown recommended so presumably there is more to it than simply wattage. There what other specifications should I be looking at to discern how loud the thing can go? Edited June 26, 2018 by tstephens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pea Turgh Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 From what I understand, Behringer have been known to exaggerate wattage in the past! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tstephens Posted June 26, 2018 Author Share Posted June 26, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Pea Turgh said: From what I understand, Behringer have been known to exaggerate wattage in the past! Ah right, so a true 400W would be much louder than I'm experiencing with a "450" behringer? Edited June 26, 2018 by tstephens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, tstephens said: Ah right, so a true 400W would be much louder than I'm experiencing with a "450" behringer? Yes. I'd also consider looking for an Orange Terror Bass 500 if I were you (£300 - £350 used). Along with Ashdown ABMs these are the best amps I've owned. Have a nice grind in the preamp. EQ isn't especially powerful, and some would say they are a one trick pony, but it's a really, REALLY good trick! And they're RIDICULOUSLY loud... Edited June 26, 2018 by Bigwan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 31 minutes ago, tstephens said: Ah right, so a true 400W would be much louder than I'm experiencing with a "450" behringer? Not necessarily, a mate of mine has a Behringer amp head, not sure which one, and through the matching 410 cab it was plenty loud enough, and sounded great with it. Which Hartke 410 is it that you use - that may be a factor on this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tstephens Posted June 27, 2018 Author Share Posted June 27, 2018 20 hours ago, Lozz196 said: Not necessarily, a mate of mine has a Behringer amp head, not sure which one, and through the matching 410 cab it was plenty loud enough, and sounded great with it. Which Hartke 410 is it that you use - that may be a factor on this. It's this one: https://www.thomann.de/gb/hartke_vx_410.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooky_lowdown Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 For your budget, secondhand... Head: Peavey Firebass 700 + Tech 21 Sansamp Bass Driver or Line 6 Lowdown HD750 Cab: x2 Peavey 410 tvx or Peavey 810 tvx It's heavy gear, but super reliable, super loud and you should be able to get either option for under 400 notes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tstephens Posted June 27, 2018 Author Share Posted June 27, 2018 19 minutes ago, hooky_lowdown said: For your budget, secondhand... Head: Peavey Firebass 700 + Tech 21 Sansamp Bass Driver or Line 6 Lowdown HD750 Cab: x2 Peavey 410 tvx or Peavey 810 tvx It's heavy gear, but super reliable, super loud and you should be able to get either option for under 400 notes. Thanks for your help. I like the look of these amps so will keep an eye out for them. And I'm guessing you strongly recommend using an 8x10, whether that's in a complete box or in 2 lots of 4? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooky_lowdown Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, tstephens said: Thanks for your help. I like the look of these amps so will keep an eye out for them. And I'm guessing you strongly recommend using an 8x10, whether that's in a complete box or in 2 lots of 4? If you can try out a few different set ups either at a local music shop or rehearsal studios, you will be able to decide if 8x10 or 6x10 or 4x10 or 4x10 + 1x15 or 2x 15 is your favourite configuration. As you'll be playing very loud, anything with 4x10 to retain clarity would work best imho. The Firebass head runs as low as 2 ohms so keep an eye out for what the cabs run at. You can use two 4 ohm cabs or even four 8 ohm cabs (which would be a wall of noise). The 410 cabs would be easier to move about, as they will be not as heavy as a 810. The Firebass head runs crystal clear even at super high volumes, put a svt simulator like a Sansamp bass driver in front of it and you should get very close to your godly sound. Edited June 27, 2018 by hooky_lowdown 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooky_lowdown Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Just thought, if you don't want to do a lot of knob twiddling - an alternative could be to run a Tech 21 Sansamp Bass Driver into a QSC power amp, then into whatever configuration of cabs you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 9 hours ago, tstephens said: It's this one: https://www.thomann.de/gb/hartke_vx_410.htm I think that may well be the weaker part of the set-up, the VX cabs were Hartkes lower priced, more vintage sounding cabs, and not that efficient in db ratings from what I`ve read. I like the recommendations of the Peavey amps, great gear, lasts forever, is heavy but worth it if you`re ok with carrying it. Add in a Sansamp/VT DI/Para Driver etc and you`re away with a quality sound. I`d still look at a different cab first though, that`s the weaker link in the current set-up imo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tstephens Posted June 28, 2018 Author Share Posted June 28, 2018 16 hours ago, Lozz196 said: I think that may well be the weaker part of the set-up, the VX cabs were Hartkes lower priced, more vintage sounding cabs, and not that efficient in db ratings from what I`ve read. I like the recommendations of the Peavey amps, great gear, lasts forever, is heavy but worth it if you`re ok with carrying it. Add in a Sansamp/VT DI/Para Driver etc and you`re away with a quality sound. I`d still look at a different cab first though, that`s the weaker link in the current set-up imo. Thanks Lozz196, So just so I'm clear. What exactly am I looking for in a cab that means it will perform much better than this Hartke? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 User reviews first and foremost, but also check the db rating of the cab - the higher it is, in theory the louder the cab will be. A difference of 3db will be pretty noticeable. There`s a good few manufacturers who don`t put the db ratings of some of their cabs out, and co-incidentally those cabs are often the lower performing ones. And - and this isn`t rule of thumb - in general you get what you pay for, a lower budget cab often isn`t as good as a higher range cab from the same manufacturer. Doesn`t always work that way, sometimes the sound can be as good but the durability can be lesser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cattytown Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Whereabouts are you? If in striking distance of Bolton, I'd be happy for you to drop by and have a play. Some of my gear is way above budget, but would give ideas. Ashdown CTM100, Fender Bassman 135, Ashdown spyder 330, two notes lebass, barefaced Big Baby cab. Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pea Turgh Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Cab-wise I just bought one of two Peavey cabs from Fleabag on ‘ere that he’d upgraded the drivers with Beyma’s. 2x10, 400w @ 4 ohms. Im yet to use it in anger, but the sound I’m getting in the house is very promising. £105 delivered! Might be a good cheap yet highly effective option for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.