Tait Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 [quote name='ezbass' post='330833' date='Nov 17 2008, 05:28 PM']My point exactly.[/quote] i think your sig pretty much sums it all up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delberthot Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Here's one - I would like to have a bass where the body is straight and the neck angles up 40 degrees. That would give me my ideal playing position as bass horizontal or bass up at an angle are compromises to me. Don't believe that this is possible unless some kind of midi device is used as you couldn't change the direction of the strings part of their way along without touching them which would result in the same sound being played regardless of where you put your left hand. I would also like to see a 5 string bass using a 4 string neck. I made one myself a few years ago using a Rick copy (it was dead when I got it). Extra machinehead hole drilled, EMG 35 pickup and Kahler adjustable bridge. Would be good to have one made properly. You get 'wide necks' so why not 'narrow necks'? I don't think that there will be as great a jump as what Leo did. From doghouse to electric was one of the best inventions in music alongside multi-track recording and others. There could be improvements such as some way to go digital like everything else has (recording, amps, etc) Unless there becomes an easier way to play it involving some kind of telepathic device then I can't see such a huge change. And anyway, where's the fun in something you don't actually touch to play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 [quote name='Crazykiwi' post='330747' date='Nov 17 2008, 03:55 PM']... we still have instruments with graphite necks and laminations and active circuits and headless designs and fanned frets and 15 degree twisted neck and vibrato bridges and onboard tuners and stereo circuitry and optical pickups and neck LED's...[/quote] Thanks CK - you've just outlined the spec for my next bass! [quote name='Delberthot' post='330852' date='Nov 17 2008, 05:49 PM']Here's one - I would like to have a bass where the body is straight and the neck angles up 40 degrees. That would give me my ideal playing position as bass horizontal or bass up at an angle are compromises to me.[/quote] And you've just described the [url="http://www.hollis.co.uk/john/synthaxe.html"]Synthaxe[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-soar Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 [quote name='Delberthot' post='330852' date='Nov 17 2008, 05:49 PM']Here's one - I would like to have a bass where the body is straight and the neck angles up 40 degrees. That would give me my ideal playing position as bass horizontal or bass up at an angle are compromises to me. Don't believe that this is possible unless some kind of midi device is used as you couldn't change the direction of the strings part of their way along without touching them which would result in the same sound being played regardless of where you put your left hand. I would also like to see a 5 string bass using a 4 string neck. I made one myself a few years ago using a Rick copy (it was dead when I got it). Extra machinehead hole drilled, EMG 35 pickup and Kahler adjustable bridge. Would be good to have one made properly. You get 'wide necks' so why not 'narrow necks'? I don't think that there will be as great a jump as what Leo did. From doghouse to electric was one of the best inventions in music alongside multi-track recording and others. There could be improvements such as some way to go digital like everything else has (recording, amps, etc) Unless there becomes an easier way to play it involving some kind of telepathic device then I can't see such a huge change. And anyway, where's the fun in something you don't actually touch to play?[/quote]You mean this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 I have a Lee Ritenour album where he is holding a Synthaxe! Also features Abe Laboriel and Carlos Vega :0) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Burpster Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 ^ GuitarHero II makes a CD........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 What about the line 6 Variax bass? had one myself when if first came out, can't give them away now. Like a lot of people i tried it and ended up using the jazz and p-bass settings so sold it and got a jazz. I think the idea had merit and with a little more work could be made into a decent instrument. One reason the electric bass has not changed much is that is does a simple job, pick up and amplify a vibrating string. why make it more complicated than it needs to be? I think we will be playing the same type of basses in another 60 years give or take the odd improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 (edited) Can't believe no-one's mentioned the Ashbory - [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashbory_bass"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashbory_bass[/url] and the truly worrying Roland G77 synth bass [url="http://www.helpwantedproductions.com/G77.JPG"]http://www.helpwantedproductions.com/G77.JPG[/url] Edited November 17, 2008 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosebass Posted November 18, 2008 Author Share Posted November 18, 2008 (edited) Some very wonderful insights into design the reasons for it and why radical design never seems to become mainstream. I agree that technical development and better design all go towards enhancing the basic product but again these are just enhancements and improvements. Must admit that the disappearing frets idea is pretty neat. Maybe, as with some other design icons we will be "stuck" with the four strings on a stick and its derivatives for some time to come. If the bass cannot be seen to develop beyond its present envelope then I wonder what we will see next development wise. I don't think USB has been looked into fully. As a link between bass and amp / computer it could open up some possibilities. Maybe controlling your amp from your bass. 3 buttons would do it just like a Nokia.... Edited November 18, 2008 by Prosebass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosebass Posted November 18, 2008 Author Share Posted November 18, 2008 [quote name='The Burpster' post='330909' date='Nov 17 2008, 07:05 PM']^ GuitarHero II makes a CD........[/quote] Don't knock it "Its the future" Wonder if they will do a Weather Report add on for it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_D Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 [quote name='skankdelvar' post='331156' date='Nov 17 2008, 11:20 PM']Can't believe no-one's mentioned the Ashbory - [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashbory_bass"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashbory_bass[/url] and the truly worrying Roland G77 synth bass [url="http://www.helpwantedproductions.com/G77.JPG"]http://www.helpwantedproductions.com/G77.JPG[/url][/quote] The first thing I thought of when I read the OP was the Ashbory. Also Piezo pickups were a massive move forward in pickup design. I am still trying to work out what the OP is exactly asking for here. There have been a good few changes in bass designs even down to the sinsonido [url="http://www.adirondackguitar.com/electrics/aria/travel_bass.htm"]http://www.adirondackguitar.com/electrics/...travel_bass.htm[/url] Thats basically a stick with a tube frame. Certainly nothing like a P or a Jazz IMHO of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosebass Posted November 18, 2008 Author Share Posted November 18, 2008 [quote name='The_D' post='331186' date='Nov 18 2008, 12:24 AM']I am still trying to work out what the OP is exactly asking for here. There have been a good few changes in bass designs even down to the sinsonido[/quote] Not after anything specific just opening up the debate as to why basses look like they do and have done for quite a while , and what if any will be the next development that we are likely to see. Plus I'm fishing for ideas ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leowasright Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 It's mainly down to the fact Leo Fender got it pretty much right in 1950/51 and got it almost perfect in 1960 (my biased view). 58 years later the electric bass that Leo Fender designed/invented is pretty much STILL what bass players want. At the time (1950) the instrument was pretty darned revolutionary. We still seem to be struggling to evolve the acoustic 6 string guitar at this point in time as well, and that dates in it's present form over 100 years. Any new electric bass is destined to be an evolution of the original (even the Jazz), until the electric bass (and electric guitar) is replaced in popular music culture by something else. Remember, 100 years ago, the mandolin family was vastly more popular than the guitar was. Think on.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 You have to remember also that the electric bass (and the Upright Bass) is not the be all and end all of low frequency generation. Just have a look at all the instruments in the the orchestra capable of generating the same notes as the bass guitar (and frequently lower). Plus all the real cutting edge work in low frequencies for the last 30 years has been electronically generated... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leowasright Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 [quote]Plus all the real cutting edge work in low frequencies for the last 30 years has been electronically generated. Quite right. The electronic music of the early 80s threatened to replace the electric guitar and bass, but never quite managed it. And we now have pedals to simulate synth bass on bass guitar! Oh, the nearest to a revolutionary fretted bass since the Precision was probably the Steinberger of the early 80s. That stripped the instrument down to the minimum amount of material required, and dismissed the need for wood. Yet even that failed to fully catch on, and only Hohner copies are made now, in wood! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 I'm going to have to totally disagree with you here... As someone who plays both synth and bass (and in fact spent most of the 80s programming and playing synths rather than playing bass guitar) the real innovative work to which I alluded in my previous post is all about pushing forward the boundaries of what was sonically possible, and not imitation. Using electronic sources to generate low frequency tones because they provide something that the bass guitar can not. From Kraftwerk and Tangerine Dream all the way through to the likes of Machinefabriek and Aoki Takamasa & Tujiko Noriko there are people who are looking to use a broader pallet of sound than the traditional guitar, bass, drums. This is where the cutting edge of sound generation and the innovations in instrumentation that go with it lie. The electric bass guitar was really the solution to the problem of how to make the Upright bass loud enough to compete with the electric guitar and give it the same stage presence and portability. That done other than incremental improvements in ergonomics, playability and construction, there is little left here in terms of redefining how to produce low frequencies by means of a vibrating string. Make no mistake - I love playing my basses, and there are times when the sound and physicality of playing the bass are right, but equally I also know when it's time to put down the bass guitar and head for the computer (or maybe even hire in a contrabassoon player and their instrument) in order to generate the appropriate low frequency sounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leowasright Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 No disagreement here. I may have simplified the role electronic generation has had in the bass frequency region, but we are mutually agreed that no stringed bass/bass guitar, no matter how evolved from Leo Fender's original "doghouse" replacement, is ever really going to revolutionise music or the playing of it again. As I said before, that will only come with the passing of the electric guitar and bass, and that may take another 50 years. Or more. God knows what will finally eclipse them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telebass Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Leo got it 99% right in 1951, upped it to 99.5% in 1957, then added a different flavour in 1960... Anyway you look at it, no-one is [i]capable[/i] of revolutionising it that much... Avtive, woods, other materials - just icing on top of a cake who's fundamental (!) recipe is un likely to be bettered any time soon. Of course I'm biased! But it IS what I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tait Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 [quote name='Telebass' post='331776' date='Nov 18 2008, 08:41 PM']Leo got it 99% right in 1951, upped it to 99.5% in 1957, then added a different flavour in 1960... Anyway you look at it, no-one is [i]capable[/i] of revolutionising it that much... Avtive, woods, other materials - just icing on top of a cake who's fundamental (!) recipe is un likely to be bettered any time soon. Of course I'm biased! But it IS what I think.[/quote] i wouldn't say 99% right, there are a lot of, well, not so much problems, but ways to improve the 1951 precision. a four saddle bridge for starters. he originally had the thumb rest below the strings, not above, but that idea didn't catch on. i think i read somewhere about the machineheads turning the other way but people preferred the way they are now. fender later improved the precision pickup to the split one, so they obviously thought that was an improvement. they added mass to the headstock when they brought in the new headstock design. and the first twenty or something like that had a different material pickguard that cracked and broke so they changed pickguard material. im sure there were many more, not so much flaws, as thing that needed improving that i haven't mentioned. i'm trying not to use things that are a matter of opinion here (although of course it all is, i just mean i'm trying not to use things like "some people prefer active basses" and "mahogany bodies sound better") but are more... a general agreement. most people will agree that a four saddle bridge is "better" than a two saddle. most people agree that the more balanced strat-like fender headstock is "better" than the old tele-like headstock that results in neck dive (although i'll admit it - they look cool! my taitycaster has a tele headstock, but it did have neck dive. i moved the strap button). most people agree that the hum-cancelling split p pickup is a "better" design of pickup than the original single coil p. ok, its all just small things, but i think when you put it all together, it shows that the original 1951 precision wasn't so great. a huge advancement, but not 99% right, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 [quote name='Leowasright' post='331681' date='Nov 18 2008, 06:16 PM']It's mainly down to the fact Leo Fender got it pretty much right in 1950/51 and got it almost perfect in 1960 (my biased view). 58 years later the electric bass that Leo Fender designed/invented is pretty much STILL what bass players want. At the time (1950) the instrument was pretty darned revolutionary... Think on....[/quote] I think Leo didn't get it 99% right and I think its a mistake for anyone to idolise Leo Fender. If the bigger picture is taken into consideration he was just one of a succession of designers contributing to a gradual evolution in MUSICAL INSTRUMENT design. He an adapted existing idea (the solid body guitar designed by Les Paul) into a different format. Les Paul did exactly the same thing in taking a hollow body instrument and redesigning it so it was less prone to feedback. Ned Steinberger took the standard conventional layout of a bass and made significant improvements in making it headless (which he also adapted from existing ideas elsewhere). Regardless of marketability, I think headless instruments are the most significant improvement in bass guitar design in the last 40 years. Its an incredibly elegant solution to a number of playability issues. So what if it doesn't look "right"? Lets be clear that this is just a question of taste, not functionality. Tastes, as we all know, change like fashion. The prominence of the Fender bass was thanks mostly to producers and sound engineers in the 60's and 70's preferring those instruments as an industry standard to make eq'ing easier and that is what has led to the legacy in music we have today. Fact is, all these people are all standing on the shoulders of giants. No single person is a genius or made a giant leap, they're all part of a process of adaption and evolution. Its Darwinism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steinbergerguitars Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Take a look at Steinberger; seriously different design that has done well for itself. I personally enjoy the flexibility that the size a weight offers as well as the reduced stress when compared to toting a heavier bass. The best part for me is the look of the bass. Just cool! I only have a Steinberger GT-Pro right now but I have had both the Steinberger fretless and fretted five string basses as well as a four string. cheers Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Good, innovative design is surely about presenting a solution to a problem. When Leo set about assembling the electric bass, it wasn't to pass the time on a quiet Sunday afternoon. He recognised the problem, and attempted to solve it, and solved it pretty damn well. The reason all the radical innovations since then have failed to revolutionise bass design is because they were solutions looking for a problem, or the problem was too small. Innovation in bass design, when it comes, will be driven by necessity. As much of an achievement as the Stick or the ever-growing ERB might be, and I do believe they are, in most mainstream musical contexts they just aren't in the picture right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 [quote name='mike257' post='332030' date='Nov 19 2008, 12:26 AM']Good, innovative design is surely about presenting a solution to a problem. When Leo set about assembling the electric bass, it wasn't to pass the time on a quiet Sunday afternoon. He recognised the problem, and attempted to solve it, and solved it pretty damn well. The reason all the radical innovations since then have failed to revolutionise bass design is because they were solutions looking for a problem, or the problem was too small. Innovation in bass design, when it comes, will be driven by necessity. As much of an achievement as the Stick or the ever-growing ERB might be, and I do believe they are, in most mainstream musical contexts they just aren't in the picture right now.[/quote] Thats the point I was making and was also made by LWTait. The design of the bass as it currently stands is more or less fit for purpose - definitely flawed but more or less OK. There isn't sufficient market demand to drive a change in conventions. For there to be any significant paradigm shift, there needs to be a major driver either by technology or market demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 [quote name='Delberthot' post='330852' date='Nov 17 2008, 05:49 PM']I would also like to see a 5 string bass using a 4 string neck. I made one myself a few years ago using a Rick copy (it was dead when I got it). Extra machinehead hole drilled, EMG 35 pickup and Kahler adjustable bridge. Would be good to have one made properly. You get 'wide necks' so why not 'narrow necks'?[/quote] I've got one. Wilkinson (IIRC) 4+1 bridge which adds a string to a P-type neck. Must get a jack socket onto it, I want to sell it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telebass Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 (edited) Yes indeed, Darwinism, no argument. In Leo's defence (bad pickguards, wrong-way tuners, 2-saddle bridges,etc) - these WERE advances, and also shortage of decent materials for somethings (middle of the Korean War, remember...). The larger 57 headstock less prone to neck dive? Never, ever, heard of a pre 57 style Precision that suffered from neck-dive***..pretty rare but not unknown on post 57s...although I've never personally come across a neck-diving Fender bass, except the Jaguar... If I'm seemingly stuck mindlessly with my precisions, it's because nothing else has ever felt right, no matter who made it. And yes, I do like that name on the headstock. I grew up with these being the only good bass around at the time. While that is patently not the case now, I just love 'em, and have yet to see much that is other than minor tweaking, even in the big picture... Headless? Hmmm...If I could have a 'modern' bass, it would be a Status S2 headless. With a single passive P pickup. That, I would step up for. So maybe I'm not QUITE the stick-in-the-mud even I thought I was! ***Some modern, basswood bodied versions might, but no originals or Telecaster Basses... Edited November 19, 2008 by Telebass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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